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Building a computer need a little help thanks....


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#1 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 10:34 PM

I have got my parts in and put them together today. I have only gotten the motherboard,case,cdrw,floppy and power supply. I just got my motherboard and all those wires that need to go on that thing it drove me nuts. Front sound front usb you know so many cables.

This is my very first pc ever! I got my a K8t800 pro neo2 fir motherboard. I am going to buy next a AMD 64 3200 CPU(socket 939). Do you think for the CPU,cooler and heatsink that a price of 215.00 or so shipped is a good deal?

I just need some help getting the other parts. I have a question on getting a good hard drive for my new pc too.

I want to know about what type of drive is faster and is it worth it to buy it. I thought a sata drive was fast but I see it connects by IDE???

My motherboard is able to use a sata/raid connection. Or should I just go for a big IDE drive?

Please go into detail on the hard drive. I want to buy one very soon.

I am going to go way up from 98 and even from my xp laptop and get XP pro. I found it on ebay for under 100.00 shipped is that a good deal?

I will have more questions later. See you later

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#2 phawgg

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 10:54 PM

Hey, cows sounds like a great project.

winXP pro under $100.00 is good.
It's typically $140-150.00 around here, used.

I can't give you hands on experience with the SATA vs. ATA question,
but I can say this: ATA 133 are relatively inexpensive & fast.
Seems to me the difference might be "negligible".

The writeup on your motherboard lists Ultra/133 IDE cable and serial ATA cables
included.
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=1634
page two states about the same thing I have, Ultra 133/IDE hard drives are far from being obsolete. This board provides for some future expansion, perhaps some improvements utilizing the technology that western digital, maxtor and others have been perfecting.

I'll try to read more later,
looks like you have an excellent tutorial to go by in that article written in AUG 2004.
patiently patrolling, plenty of persisant pests n' problems ...

#3 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 24 January 2005 - 11:30 PM

So your saying its ok to go and buy a Sata 150 hd even if it hooks up on IDE instead of the sata?

I have all those cables thats one reason I ask. I'm just so unsure on a HD I really am ok on the rest of the computer.

My case is so amazing I say but I put it all together today and read that when I buy my CPU I have to unbolt it and put a cover on the back of the MB.

I was looking at a hard drive on ebay think this is a deal?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...5158132528&rd=1

Thanks for your help I need a little backup on my ideas....

Edited by cowsgonemadd3, 24 January 2005 - 11:32 PM.


#4 phawgg

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 12:10 AM

So your saying its ok to go and buy a Sata 150 hd even if it hooks up on IDE instead of the sata?

No, I'm not saying that.

I can say this: ATA 133 are relatively inexpensive & fast.
Seems to me the difference might be "negligible".

ATA is not SATA.
SATA are more expensive.
That doesn't mean they are better.

'negligible" difference means that it's not much of a difference.
Seems to me = I think, but am not CERTAIN
that the way you will use your computer (and probably the way I use mine)
it'll make no big difference paying for SATA.

The article kinda hints that. too.
Page two.

The e-bay deal is this:

Maxtor 160GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, MODEL 6Y160M0, OEM Drive Only

The 7200 RPM DiamondMax® Plus 9 hard drive is your solution for performance PCs with data- intensive applications such as network attached storage, home networking devices, audio, video and other multimedia applications. When your applications demand performance and reliability for your critical data, DiamondMax Plus 9 provides the highest capacity in its class. DiamondMax Plus 9 is equipped with fluid dynamic bearing motors for acoustic sensitive applications. This allows the drive to operate with extremely low sound output, an important feature for many applications. With Maxtor Shock Protection and Data Protection Systems on every drive, your drives and data are protected against operating and non-operating shock. DiamondMax Plus 9 offers performance leadership design with a 2MB or 8MB buffer, ATA/133 or SATA interface and capacities of 60, 80, 120, 160 and 200GB. This is a drive that delivers.

Features

# Fast ATA/Enhanced IDE Compatible # Ultra ATA/133 Data Transfer Speed # Serial ATA version enables transfer speeds up to 150 MB/sec # 2MB and 8MB Cache Buffer # Quiet Drive Technology # 100 % FDB (fluid dynamic bearing) motors # Maxtor Shock Protection System # Maxtor Data Protection System

Specifications: Capacity: 160GB Average Seek Time: 9.3 ms Buffer: 8MB Rotational Speed: 7200 RPM Interface: Serial ATA Features: Maxtor Shock Protection and Data Protection Systems Manufacturer Warranty: 3 years Packaging: OEM Drive Only

I use a Maxtor DiamondMax Plus9 120GB Ultra ATA/133 HD.

Buffer size 8MB
average seek time <9.3 ms
External Transfer Rate: up to 133MBytes/sec
8MB Cache (is this the same thing as buffer size?)
what does this mean in comparison to the one above?

Thats what I say. :thumbsup:
I know something.
I don't know it all.

I paid about 80.00 for it.
I paid half that for the 40GB that is about the same specs,
only it's called a DiamondMax Plus 8

Again, what's the difference.
They both work consistantly well.


When my software isn't tripping over it's feet.
:flowers:

Edited by phawgg, 25 January 2005 - 12:11 AM.

patiently patrolling, plenty of persisant pests n' problems ...

#5 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 12:30 AM

I saw the windows xp 64bit OS free trial should I use it for the 365 days or just go get xp pro? Thats my next question.

Also I have built in video on my MB should I get a external card or use it on the mb? How good is it on mb's?

Thanks
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/e...on/upgrade.mspx

#6 phawgg

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 12:56 AM

From the Microsoft site:

Windows XP Professional x64 Edition is designed to address the most demanding needs of technical workstation users who require large amounts of memory and floating point performance in areas such as mechanical design and analysis, digital content creation and scientific and high-performance computing applications.

It seems the answer lies within these dramatic & demanding needs

floating point performance in:
1. mechanical design and analysis
2. digital content creation
3. scientific and high-performance computing applications.

I'm not presently tied up in these particular pursuits.
Are you?
450MB download?
an ISO you will need to burn to CD to use.
free for 365 days?

Thats my next question.

Good question, CGM3
Funny how that one question turned into 10...

I'm struggling with
2. :thumbsup:
and the definition of floating point performance eludes me presently, too.

Oh, and the built-in video?

Try it first, then maybe if that's not enough *umph*
budget for another purchase...
or
that & whatever winXPpro-64 will cost Jan 29th, 2006 :flowers:
patiently patrolling, plenty of persisant pests n' problems ...

#7 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 25 January 2005 - 05:01 PM

Didnt see that when I read about the windows 64 bit. No I just saw that it was free for 365 days and said hey it might give me more time to save up the money to buy XP pro.

I found out just now what looked like a video card turned out to be another port and no built in memory card(sighs).

Since it has no built in card what do you use in your pc? I am looking on ebay for one with 128mb and tv out. I want to get one for under 50.00 shipped. I saw one in tiger direct for 39.00 plus shipping.

Any pointers or ideas on a AGP card?

PS my motherboard supports 8x agp so instead of placing it into a normal card slot im getting one with 8xAGP. Hopefully this is better.

Thanks

Edited by cowsgonemadd3, 25 January 2005 - 05:02 PM.


#8 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 12:09 AM

This is a update on my computers status.

I bought these parts and hope to buy more very soon. I have 3 parts left and my pc will be up and running.

I bought a diamondmax 160gb ata-133 hard drive for $92.00 shipped, A us robotics 56k fax modem with pause ability $20.00 shipped And AMD 64 3200 1600FSB socket 939 CPU with heatsink and cooling fan for $222.50 shipped.

I hope to buy some ram and a ATI video card maybe tomorrow or withing the next month.

Just a question do you think I need dual chanel ram? I don't have the money right now and might upgrade to better ram in the future. So is it ok to get el cheapo ram(512mb @@@@ brand)?

Thanks for all the help my system is looking better and better.

#9 phawgg

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 01:07 AM

Just a question do you think I need dual chanel ram? I don't have the money right now and might upgrade to better ram in the future. So is it ok to get el cheapo ram(512mb @@@@ brand)?

hey, no fair... that's TWO questions, LOL

I'd get a lifetime guarantee type if I were you, and a brand that is recognized as good.

Then I'd get one 512 MB stick now, and more later.

Corsair
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patiently patrolling, plenty of persisant pests n' problems ...

#10 jgweed

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 01:13 AM

Buy the best RAM you can afford to avoid problems later.
John
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one should be silent.

#11 The Trip

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 11:46 AM

I have one question for you cows. How much have u spent total on this thing?

Cuz buying parts locally and utilizing rebate offers I made a computer recently for just over 600$ (OS not included...I dont have one yet).
My specs for it are:
160 Ultra ATA/100 7200RPM Seagate Baracudda with 8mb cache -$50 (after rebates

Shuttle AB60N Motherboard - 40$ (it was an opend product :-) )

512MB DDR-SDRAM (2x256) Kingston PC3200 - 70$ (after rebates)
16x Dual Layer DVD+-R/RW Drive - 60$ (after rebates)
Cables + 1 fan=60$ or so
Standard Floppy - 20$
Xtasy ATI Based APG 8x 128MB 9200SE Graphics Card - 60$ (after rebates)

Thats about it...

Also if you have not yet bought RAM instead of buying one stick of 512mb you should go with 2 sticks of 256, because if you have a Dual Channel MB, it will run faster if you but the them in the first slots of each section. Like if you have 4 Dimm Ports, but one in Slot 1, and 3, because Dual Channel Mobos, run faster with 2 of the same type of ram in the first slots of both ...sections. (I forgot the word I wanteed to use).

ALSO, if your not much of a gamer, or you play some games everyonce in a while that are not graphics intensive, embedded video should work, for your needs. I have an e-machines that uses embedded video with a no-name Mobo, and it has play most of the games I wanted it to.
RCT
RCT 2
Empire Earth
Empire Earth: AoC
Impossible Creatures
Fallout 1 & 2 & tactics
Starseige Tribes
Half-Life
..to name a few
and you mobo is probably many times better, and has much better emmbeded video, so it can probably play may newer games.
Only reason I bought a Graphics Card is cuz my mobo didnt have embedded video.

But by all means, if you have the cash to spare go for it.

#12 rexifelis

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 12:54 PM

diamondmax 160gb ata-133

Just a question do you think I need dual chanel ram?

el cheapo ram(512mb @@@@ brand)?

be aware if you ever have to access this harddrive from
dos or an older version of windows (anything before XP)
most of them will freak out and not recognize the harddrive
as being available because most OS limits are at 138GB
... anything over that limit will be "unreadable" or appear
blank. you can get around this by partitioning the drive
at about the 135GB mark and just having two partitions
on it...

dual channel ram is exactly what was described
elsewhere in this topic... good and fast.

please for the love of god... dont buy cheap memory...
kingston has good prices... 512 MB (2 pcs 256) DDR
(400) PC-3200 Non-ECC Kingston for a little over $90
(no discounts) and it has done me very well.

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--Florence Ambrose
Freefall (gooood webcomic)
reference to the specific strip that my quote came from.

#13 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 05:33 PM

Hum..........

So much to take in. Ok I bought almost all of my parts on ebay. Here is my product list and prices so far:

AMD 64 3200 CPU=220.00 shipped to my door
Aerocool JetMaster JR-SS Silver ATX case with free 400watt power supply and a free cdrw drive all brand new for 89.99 shipped. I added this up to be about 180.00 if bough individually on newegg.com!

A AT8 MSI fir motherboard 107.00 shipped its 133.00 plus shipping on new egg. Got this part new too.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc....-130-463&depa=0

Floppy drive free from part computers 20.00+ value

Xp home Im going to get the OEM version for under or little above 90.00 maybe 93.00 at the most.

A diamondmax ata 130 hd 160gb for 94.00 shipped brand new

And a new US robotics 56k fax modem with pause ability for 20.00 shipped.

I have yet another 200.00 to pay for in parts counting XP. So my total for my pc is around 750.00 total. Way off from what I wanted to pay of 600.00...

Is my pc doing good? I hate to even spend 90.00 on ram is there a offer on a site like office depot now you can link me too. PC 3200 dual channel?

Im curently looking for some at officemax.com but havent seen any cheap ones yet. How much should I pay for 512mb dual channel ram?

My motherboard takes up to 4 dim so dual channel works right?

Just remember this is my very first pc and I do not want to mess up so stupid questions will come to you "experienced".

Thanks every one!

#14 JEservices

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 07:50 PM

I am sorry Cows that I have not responded until now. I have been reading up on your progress, and it is looking great so far :thumbsup:

I may not be able to answer all your questions at this time, but I will get as many as possible and will continue later tonight or tomorrow.

Xp home Im going to get the OEM version for under or little above 90.00 maybe 93.00 at the most.


Good price especially for OEM. Is it the version that has SP2 already included?

I wanted to comment on RAM. Even though you could get (2)256 MB RAM, it is far better to get (1)512. The Dual channel that it referring to is how it works in pairs. In every benchmark test that I have found, 1x512 will outperform 2x256, as long as they are the same speed.

Since it has no built in card what do you use in your pc? I am looking on ebay for one with 128mb and tv out. I want to get one for under 50.00 shipped. I saw one in tiger direct for 39.00 plus shipping.


I would be interested to see a link, if you do not mind. One thing I will mention about video cards in general, is that even a 64 MB one would be better then integrated. Not only does the system regain the RAM that is allocated for it, but it will make the computer more proficient. If you think of a boss that has many tasks to complete, he can give employees specific jobs. As a team, more work is done at one time. The video card works the same way. Taking responsibilities away from the motherboard and CPU to accomplish what you see on the screen.

As far as the SATA hard drive, I would not worry too much about it. Stay with the ATA one that you are looking at. The price difference is not worth the 8-12% speed increase.

I would avoid the XP 64-bit editon for now. Wait until more people have played around with the different features. It is my understanding that it is in beta form, so that basically means that you would be running a test computer for them. It could work, and it could crash. IMO, it is a little too much to risk at this time.
We are all curious like a cat. We wonder, we ask, we learn.
Please post back when a suggestion works, so that others may learn.

#15 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 27 January 2005 - 09:49 PM

Here is my new update

Got a ATI 9200SE video card with DVI/analog and tv out not s-video. I read that TV out is better than S-video?

It has 128mb ddr ram size on the card too. It will be about 51.00 or so shipped.

The one I was talking about earlier for 39.00 plus shipping only had analog. If I ever upgrade to a LCD I will need DVI so I was forced to pay more than I wanted!

This computer is going for way!!! more than I wanted to pay! I could have just went out and got a already assembled HP or dell pc with junky parts for 500.00 or 600.00.

I hope this won't put us in debt to bad. It is going to raze the credit card up a bit I fear.......

I have a old pc system with 350mhz 98SE,16mb voodoo card,20gb hard drive,15in monitor,sound system and a 56x cd drive.

How much should I advertise it in the paper for? Or really how much is that worth? I was thinking 100.00 firm. Does that sound good for it being 7 years old?

All I have left to buy now is ram and XP home. How is this ram is it okay? Please tell me so I can go ahead and buy it.

Thanks

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Se...sp?EdpNo=586829




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