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Feminism ...


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#1 MaraM

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 10:25 PM

Feminism seems to be either praised - or slammed - depending on one's point of view, I suppose.

When I read terms like "those feminists ...", I wonder if more people than I realize feel that the feminist movement over the past few decades has had a negative impact on our societies.

Do you think the changes have been an improvement? Or perhaps the opposite?
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#2 blueandgold04

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 02:50 PM

Nice topic MaraM! :thumbsup:

I think some of the changes have been extremely beneficial. Now, there seems to be a more positive air of equality in those places where the movement has taken hold.

Plus, women should be given much more respect, as they are the other half to Humanity. They are as essential as men, and their input no less important.

However, I do think that feminism has been detrimental to the classic 'family unit'. Plus, it gave the keepers of the economic keys an opening to almost require a dual-income home.

For the life of me I can never understand why some women take affront to the classical housewife duties. Those duties are no less important than going to work everyday. However, I would never stop a woman from pursuing a career.

Plus, I think the pursuit of total equality is one giant farse. Life is never equal to anyone, regardless of your gender. So I think it becomes an easy scapegoat for any perceived imbalance, much like racism. Thus, it gets far too much attention. I have worked side by side with women who claim to be equal, but shirk their work, so what does that tell you?
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#3 Scarlett

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 03:07 PM

Nice topic MaraM! :thumbsup:


However, I do think that feminism has been detrimental to the classic 'family unit'. Plus, it gave the keepers of the economic keys an opening to almost require a dual-income home.

For the life of me I can never understand why some women take affront to the classical housewife duties. Those duties are no less important than going to work everyday. However, I would never stop a woman from pursuing a career.


I agree. The family unit has suffered greatly. A shame.

Women who do not respect those women, who do not join the workforce, and choose to maintain the home and care for their children, deserve as much respect as anyone. It is as tough as a job as any other. My Mom never worked outside of the home. And I think us kids, are all the better for it.

Also the feminist movement has veered in a direction that I am not in total agreement with either. Politically speaking that is.
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#4 solaris32

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 08:07 PM

Here's a well done feminist site:

http://www.realwomenca.com/index.html

But alas, I could only find 1 up-to-date, well-done, anti-feminist site:

http://decadentsociety.blogspot.com/

If anyone knows of any other good anti-feminist sites, I would very much like a link.
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#5 MaraM

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 12:16 AM

Thanks for both the links, solaris32. (A 'heads-up' to anyone about to read the second link - lots of swearing). And I'm just so grateful that no one here stated that God intended women to be subservient to men as tears dripping on my keyboard would have done my poor computer no good at all! Gentle grin!

Do agree with Scarlett's words about how certain groups within the feminist movement - wow, some seem to be veering into 'la la' land at a rapid pace. Eep! In fact, the 'men haters' out there than have the nerve to call themself 'feminists' - grrrr - to put men down is no different than men putting women down.

But the extremists aside, I'm fascinated that much of the understanding of the basic feminist movement is 'to strive for equality'. I do agree it's a bad choice of word in many ways for indeed, that word in itself perhaps shouldn't apply unless we've got two near identical apples sitting on the table. As you said, blueandgold04, "Life is never equal to anyone, regardless of your gender". . Suspect they may have chosen it simply because it's the closest one we have in our vocabulary to ask for being treated as "the other half to Humanity". (Well put!).

While feminists fought for women to be able to work and for 'same pay for same job' regardless if being done by a man or a women, it is odd how our society seems to have veered off into the belief that a family needs 2 cars, massive flat-screen tvs and the biggest house possible - ergo, so many women now 'have' to work when having babies. Could be wrong here but I sort of think feminists gave us the 'key' but we, in turn, choose to walk through the door and not return to do the incredibly hard but necessary job of raising children. (On a personal level, whether it be daddy or mommy as a stay-at-home parent, bet there are millions of kids longing for it).

But I darn near snorted my coffee through my nose when I read these words at the second link, though: "Yes I hate feminists, i despise them, i want them out of our society".

These words are made by a women. A women who, without feminism, would not have the right to inherit her husband's property upon his death, would not have survivor benefits if he should die and live her and her children unprovided for, she couldn't vote, she couldn't take a loan out without her husband's written consent, violence in the home would still be 'okay' in the eyes of the law, women and children's shelters wouldn't exist - and so much more.

And the work of so many women now dead still goes on - the fight to stop having innocent children mutilated, women killed at the pleasure of their husbands with no law saying this is wrong. They have far more courage than I - for the most part, I've simply sat back and reaped the reward for their work.

- - -
PM to blueandgold04 ...
I do sympathize for having to work with women who goof off at work. I worked with both women and men who goofed off at work. (Don't think it often occurs to them that what they don't do, someone else will have do - all for the same pay! Ugh!).
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#6 rowal5555

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 01:25 AM

I think the Feminism Movement was necessary and has done a great job. I also think that is now going too far the other way.

Shoot me down if you will, but while the phrase 'a woman's place is in the home' is a bit too far over the top, I think that 'a mother's place is in the home' is very true and the world would be a better place if most mothers were home when their kids came in after school.

Back to the subject; in many areas it is way passed time for a 'Masculism Movement' to bring back some rights for Dads.

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#7 MaraM

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 02:18 AM

I, for one, would never 'shoot you down' for feeling as you do, rowal5555.

When it comes to divorce, the parent best able to care for the child(children) on a day to day basis should be the custodial parent - but the non-custodial parent still matters, completely and fully, in a child's life - and woe to either parent who forget that the kids are the important ones in these disputes. (And I'm so happy to see more and more Family Courts feel this way too here!).

Think I mentioned earlier that I too wish a parent could stay home with children - when they are little in particular. If we realize that having a mommy or daddy at home raising the children we chose to give birth too matters to kids (I've honestly not met a single person who complained that they had a stay-at-home mom or dad). For some, it may be that the fancy house, etc takes precedence, even if this means both parents working outside the home perhaps believing they are making up for their absence in other ways. The nasty truth may be that not only do children need parents - there when they need them - they are unlikely to remember the fancy vacations and expensive toys one day but may always remember how many times mommy or daddy was do busy to attend their special events or listen to their oh so serious problems, big and small.

But that said, there are so many single parents, the majority of which are mommies struggling along as best they can - and without working full time and sometimes 2 jobs, there is little chance their children and themselves won't live in poverty. Without being paid the same wage for the same job that a man would be paid, how much worse it would be - but even so, for men and women alike, working all hours of the day and night isn't going to do much more than 'keep their heads above water'.

When the 'Masculine Movement' really gets rolling, let's hope they don't make the same errors that the extremists in the Feminist Movement made. I agree, it's well past time that our society focuses on treating both sexes as capable of being incredible parents and having the same needs and wants as each other in nearly every aspect of life.
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#8 arcman

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 02:29 AM

I'd say it's a good thing as long as it's done and interpreted properly. It should be about equality and allowing women the choice of what they want to do. So if they want to work at an office, or a construction site they can. But they should be just as free to go and be a housewife if that's what they want. The feminists that decry women for being stay at home moms are just as backwards as the chauvinists that say they shouldn't be able to leave the house.
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#9 MaraM

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 04:13 AM

Yes, and isn't it sad that so many simply don't realize this. Hopefully this generation of children will grow up thinking everyone is important regardless of sex or any other 'differences'.
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#10 DSTM

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 08:08 AM

I think the Feminist Movement has been good in the most part,and has been beneficial to Women in general. However the movement with all good intentions, like many other movements, has been infiltrated with the Extreme Elements,and gone way too far. We have our own War Horse, Germaine Greer,which to me, is too radical in her thinking. Worth the read IMO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germaine_Greer















#11 jwinathome

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 08:17 AM

I agree with many, it has been beneficial in the past....however, I think currently, the feminists are their own worst enemy.

In no way should women be subservient to men....if anything, men should lay down their lives for women constantly out of love and respect.

#12 jgweed

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Posted 06 July 2007 - 08:24 AM

Social changes are often accompanied by some excesses. I suppose many thought that the Suffragette Movement was excessive, but it did result in women achieving the right to vote. What followed was the real extension of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" to half the population.
The consideration of women as individual humans first, and women second in all phases of contemporary life, and the recognisation that their subjectivity has as much value as a man's, seems to me an advance for all of us.
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#13 MaraM

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 01:23 AM

Yes! :thumbsup: Thanks, jgweed! In fact, you've touched on what I've believed for myself and taught our kids - you are a person first, a woman or a man second.
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#14 JohnWho

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Posted 07 July 2007 - 08:57 AM

I think it is only the extremist activities of feminism that are a problem.

For example -

equal pay for equal work makes sense.


Demanding unisex bathroom facilities so everyone gets equal treatment does not make sense, although it would be amusing to watch women using some urinals.

:thumbsup:


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#15 blueandgold04

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Posted 09 July 2007 - 08:28 AM

:thumbsup: :flowers:
"Nobody realizes that some people expend tremendous energy merely to be normal." -Albert Camus
"Chance favors the prepared mind." -Louis Pasteur
"If a man does his best, what else is there?" -George S. Patton




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