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Cpu Fan And Or Nb Fan Problems


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#1 Wino

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 02:19 PM

Hello,

My PC (home build by a no longer contactable colleague) develped an intermintant whirring/clicking noise a month or so ago. I ignored it (foolishly) as it was not constant and I presumed it was just an ageing fan.

In the last few days I have had a bleeping warning and through reading forums and examining my bios I have found that my CPU temperature is running at 70C idle. When I use anything more complex than office packages the temperature rises to 84/85C.

Having taken off my casing and given the inside and fans as much of a clean up as possible (removed CPU fan and "hoovered" heat sink.) There has not been much improvement. The actual clicking nopise appeared to have been coming from my mother board "abit" fan?? This is running at very low RPM (average between 500-1000rpm.) I have tried removing it to clean but it has the wretched two pin/screws (spring type). From all I have read it appears that I would need to remove the mother board. Is this the only way? If so is it easy?

For reference the heat sink on the CPU is not hot to the touch and the CPU RPMs are around 3000. Could a faulty motherboard fan lead to high CPU readings?

Here are some Everest readings if it helps!

CPU Properties:
CPU Type AMD Athlon 64 3000+
CPU Alias Newcastle S754
CPU Stepping DH-CG
CPUID CPU Name AMD Athlon™ 64 Processor 3000+
CPUID Revision 00000FC0h

CPU Speed:
CPU Clock 2042.90 MHz
CPU Multiplier 10.0x
CPU FSB 204.29 MHz (original: 200 MHz, overclock: 2%)
Memory Bus 204.29 MHz

CPU Cache:
L1 Code Cache 64 KB (Parity)
L1 Data Cache 64 KB (ECC)
L2 Cache 512 KB (On-Die, ECC, Full-Speed)

Motherboard Properties:
Motherboard ID 03/01/2004-K8T800-8237-6A7L0A19C-19
Motherboard Name Abit KV8-MAX3 (5 PCI, 1 AGP, 3 DDR DIMM, Audio, Gigabit LAN, IEEE-1394)

Chipset Properties:
Motherboard Chipset VIA VT8383 Apollo K8T800, AMD Hammer
Memory Timings 2.5-3-3-8 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS)
Command Rate (CR) 2T

SPD Memory Modules:
DIMM2: Corsair VS512MB400 512 MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (2.5-3-3-8 @ 200 MHz)
DIMM3: Corsair VS512MB400 512 MB PC3200 DDR SDRAM (2.5-3-3-8 @ 200 MHz)

BIOS Properties:
System BIOS Date 03/01/04
Video BIOS Date 04/03/30
Award BIOS Type Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
Award BIOS Message
DMI BIOS Version 6.00 PG

Graphics Processor Properties:
Video Adapter ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
GPU Code Name R350 (AGP 8x 1002 / 4E48, Rev 00)
GPU Clock 378 MHz (original: 378 MHz)
Memory Clock 338 MHz (original: 338 MHz)


Sensor Properties:
Sensor Type Abit MicroGuru (ISA E0h)
GPU Sensor Type National LM63 (ATI-I2C 4Ch)
Motherboard Name Abit KV8 / KV8-MAX3

Temperatures:
Motherboard 36 C (97 F)
CPU 75 C (167 F)
PWM 37 C (99 F)
GPU 58 C (136 F)
GPU Ambient 53 C (127 F)
Hitachi HDS722516VLSA80 34 C (93 F)
Hitachi HDS722516VLSA80 34 C (93 F)

Cooling Fans:
CPU 3674 RPM
System 4939 RPM
North Bridge 662 RPM
OTES 4939 RPM

Voltage Values:
CPU Core 1.55 V
+3.3 V 3.30 V
+5 V 5.05 V
+12 V 12.09 V
+5 V Standby 5.19 V
DIMM 2.62 V
DIMM VTT 1.35 V
AGP VDDQ 1.59 V
Debug Info F 3D 11 50 00 00 12 06 23
Debug Info V 4B 24 5B 72 C2 C2 CE 65 D6 75 63 D3 28 C0 B6 25

Any advice/help greatly appreciated.

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#2 Sneakycyber

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 03:52 PM

WOW your CPU shouldn't be that hot. I would check your CPU fan, and heatsink. When you removed the heatsink did you clean it and reapply thermal compound? Incidently what is the Air temperature where your at? You at or near the desert? I noticed the whole system seems to be quite warm


Edit: http://torrentmind.com/forums/index.php?sh...p;#entry190720.. Guide to changing Heat sink

Edited by Sneakycyber, 25 May 2007 - 03:57 PM.

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#3 DaChew

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 04:06 PM

the amd64's should only be running 50-60C under load

I like keeping mine no higher than 50C

You might want a better cpu cooler but adding a better case fan or an extra one will cool everything down

the mobo temp should be no more than 10F above room temp

leaving the side off the computer and pointing a small fan into the case is a good test
Chewy

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#4 Wino

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 06:05 PM

Thanks DaChew and Sneaky cyber.

I am in London. We have had a few sunny days but the room is reasonably cool and has a good flow of air.

I have had the side of the case off this afternoon but it does not make much difference.

Just switched on (with casing back on) after a couople of hours down time. Starting CPU temp. is 72C although the other readings are lower.

I did not remove the heat sink as I do not have any real techniacla know how. I do not have any thermal paste/glue so did not want to start experimenting with a removal until I had some advice.

I plan to buy a compressed air cannister tomorrow to give everything a going over. Only had my trusty dyson today. Used very carefully I hasten to add.

What advice do you have in regard to the Northbridge fan etc? Should I remove and reseal my CPU heatsink before looking in that direction?

Ironically my original clicking noise problem is now gone! PC running very quietly! All fans are working still.

In regard to casing set up. I appear to have an intake fan on the front at the bottom, this is covered with a "lifted"plastic panel.

There is a large outlet fan at the back, along with a smaller one that also outputs from some plastic tubing that covers some of the circuits on my motherboard. There is another fan on the back (top) that appears to draw in air over my power pack.

Then I have the small (seemingly slow) fan over my mother board and the larger CPU fan over the heatsink.

The air being blown at the back is surprisingly cool.

Is there an chance that I am getting some false sensor readings?

Sorry for the random non technical info/descriptions. As stated, hardware is not an area I have any experience in!

Suggestions?

#5 dc3

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 01:12 AM

You clicking noise could have been a wire being struck by the fan blades.

If you removed the heat sink from the CPU you will need to clean both mating surfaces and reapply the thermal compound, without it the thermal convection is reduced. When you go to clean out the case make sure to clean the grill where the air comes in, and when you blow off the heat sink fan place a pencil through the blades to keep them from spinning, this will make it easier to clean and won't stress the bearing.

I does sound like you may benefit by adding another case fan, I like to have one pulling air into the case from the front and a second exhausting the air through the rear or side.

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#6 DaChew

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 04:02 AM

after idling for a while reboot, go into bios and see what temp is reported there


sounds like the wanker didn't use any thermal compound or left a plastic strip over it when he mounted the heatsink on the cpu

is it firmly mounted?
Chewy

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#7 Wino

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 06:19 AM

Thanks dc3, DaChew

Here are my Everst readings after booting up today.

Temperatures:
Motherboard 30 C (86 F)
CPU 80 C (176 F)
PWM 34 C (93 F)
GPU 47 C (117 F)
GPU Ambient 42 C (108 F)
Hitachi HDS722516VLSA80 27 C (81 F)
Hitachi HDS722516VLSA80 27 C (81 F)

Cooling Fans:
CPU 3252 RPM
System 4939 RPM
OTES 4939 RPM

Obviously noted that Northbridge fan was not working. I removed the side casing and prodded it in to action. Here is the everets report after 10 minutes of logging on and having casing off.

Temperatures:
Motherboard 33 C (91 F)
CPU 73 C (163 F)
PWM 36 C (97 F)
GPU 57 C (135 F)
GPU Ambient 51 C (124 F)
Hitachi HDS722516VLSA80 33 C (91 F)
Hitachi HDS722516VLSA80 33 C (91 F)

Cooling Fans:
CPU 3252 RPM
System 5300 RPM
North Bridge 2228 RPM
OTES 5300 RPM

Do you think the drop in CPU temperature is related to the Northbridge fan "working" or just from having tha casing off? Or both?!

I have not had the heatsink off yet and it does seem sfirmly mounted Da Chew. Although no longer in contact with my builder, he was seemingly competant so I do not know if he would have mucked up the paste aspect. Indeed I have had 2/3 years of solid use with this PC with no problems up till now.

As I mentioned yesterday I will today purchase some compressed air and remove the CPU fan and give the heatsink a good blast. Thanks for the advice re grills and the fan bearing dc3.

I will let you know the results.

If I have to replace the motherboard fan (Northbridge) and therefore the motherboard, will it be an easy job for a novice?

Finally, I forgot to mention ref the "clicking" that I had unplugged both the CPU fan and motherboard fan (very briefly!) to see if it was the actual fans making the noise. It wasn't the blades but as to whether it was the axle or something I don't know. By the way, the noise has come back today (joy of joys) but it is a lot quieter and intermittant. Anyway, will let you know the result of my clean!

Thanks

#8 DaChew

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 07:01 AM

One of my associates ran an amd xp 3200 for 2 weeks without any air conditioning in real hot weather, room temps were above 90F, it had the standard amd heatsinkfan. By the time I got to it it was running 85C under light load, it wouldn't work
right even when cooled, but I clocked the front side bus down from 200/400 to 166/333 in bios and it did fine after that?

your max temp is 70C according to amd, now how it's measured is the problem
Chewy

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#9 Wino

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 08:52 AM

Thanks Da Chew,

Is it easy for me to experiment with altering my clocking?

I have just purchased my compressed air. Now for a clean out!

Edited by Wino, 26 May 2007 - 08:54 AM.


#10 DaChew

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 09:35 AM

what do Uguru and bios have to say about your cpu temperature?
Chewy

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#11 Wino

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 11:34 AM

Okay, I have cleaned out my pc as much as I can.

Most ipmortant find was that I coul dremove my "raised" panel on the front that gave me access to my intake fan filter. Fairly covered in fuzz, so all cleaned.

Put case back on and powered up.

Started playing old, basic pc game "Pacific heroes". Alram started tro sound about 3-4 minutes in.

I removed the side cover and continud playing and the temperature must have come down a bit as beeping stopped.

Downloaded aguru and checked bios and they both concur pretty much:=

Readings at this point (pc been on for 5-6 hours with one 30-40 min down time whilst cleaned)

Aguru

CPU 68C
SYS 27C
PWN 30C

CPU FAN 3300 RPM
NB OFF (Fan seems to have finally died)
OTES FAn 5400 RPM

BIOS (JUST AFTER REMOVED CASING DURING GAME PLAY)

CPU 76C
SYS 29C
PWM 34C

Everest is very different!

EVEREST

(Can't be right surely??!!)

Temperatures:
Motherboard 90 C (194 F)
CPU 100 C (212 F)
PWM 30 C (86 F)
GPU 51 C (124 F)
GPU Ambient 45 C (113 F)
Hitachi HDS722516VLSA80 27 C (81 F)
Hitachi HDS722516VLSA80 27 C (81 F)

Cooling Fans:
CPU 3373 RPM
System 5360 RPM
OTES 5360 RPM


Sticking my hand in at the moment.

There is cooler air in the bottom half of the case (probably because of cleared fron fan)

The heat sink is cooler than room temperature.

There is cool/cold air coming out of the back of the pc.

In general the interior all seems fairly cool!

Computer performance does not seem sluggish, the only potential blips are in the display. I had started getting my moniter blacking out and showing no signal, although I could hear the games working in the background. Only way to resolve was rebooting. Is the Northbridge (Broken) fan anything to do with the graphics card? I hadn't thought the monter problem was connected with my apparent overheating until now.

Really frustrated with this problem as I do not know if I should be out buying new fans, heatsinks etc or not!

I feel that I should initially replace the NB fan as it was working slowly and now isn't, but that brings me back to the question of how easy is it to remove a motherboard!

If I am going to do that, should I replace the CPU heatsink and fan as well or could they still be working ok?

Currently, I am leaving the side case off until issues resolved.

#12 DaChew

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 12:08 PM

the northbridge chipset controls the agp function and can cause monitor blackouts, usually right before it dies

I would patch that baby best I could and be looking at a new system soon
Chewy

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#13 Wino

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 01:32 PM

Thanks for the comments Da Chew.

I have had a mini breakthrough.

I have found an additional fan underneath a circuit board that is attached to my moniter port. Graphics Card?

This has a big silver case on the underside (hence not noticing it before) that has a small fan embedded within it. With a bit of prodding and temporarily stopping its fan, I have found that this is the source of my noise issue. The other point is that the whole metal unit is damn hot! It has mini mesh/vents? on the side that are hot to the touch.

The only info I have on it is that it says Saphire on the underside part. The metal case can be "wobbled", but I can't work out if it is thermo pasted on or not.

Should this thing, whatever it is, be very hot? It is the hottest part of the inside of the PC by far (although I haven't prodded the Power unit.)

Finally, I still intend to replace the now defunct northbridge fan. I am looking at a Zalman fanless heatsink type thing. However I will need to remove the Mobo. Do I just try and unscrew every screw that appears to attach it to the casing and remove the whole thing with all the wires and circuit boards connected? Or do I need to unplug/unscrew everything (in which case I may get hopelessly lost and not be able to reassemble it!)

#14 Sneakycyber

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 01:35 PM

I concur with Dachew, You the Norhtbridge Fan should be replaced as soon as possible to avoid any damage to the Motherboard. As far as the overheating you noticed the air inside the case was cool and the CPU heat sink was relatively cool. Your system could have faulty temperature sensors or the MB is not interpreting the signals correctly. If you have access to a thermal couple (most people don't) you could take manual readings from the north bridge. Even using a IR temperature gun will work. I don't recommend trying this with the CPU as you would have to remove the heat sink and depending on the thermal couple probe you won't be able to seat the heat sink properly which would devoid the purpose. And the IR temperature gun can't read what it can't see. Also you may have posted previously but is the System over clocked at all? If your Over clocking the system a stock cooler may not be sufficient.

Edit : 1 spelling, 2 Checked your processor specs and indeed your over clocked 2% as you stated. I am not sure that this would cause that much overheating but try and run the system at 200 FSB and see if your processor cools down.

Edited by Sneakycyber, 26 May 2007 - 01:46 PM.

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#15 Wino

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 01:43 PM

Thanks SneakyCyber,

I am a complete novice so over clocking is not something I have dabbled in.

I am considering a Zalmon fanless cooler such as the ZM-NB32J

http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.a...65&code=014

This will be right next to my rear extractor fan.

Any advice on MB removal?? :thumbsup:

Haven't got any of your suggested temp measuring kit unfortunatley.

What do you think of the hot metal box as described in my last post? Could this be the cause of my problems albeit it is a good 3/4 inches from my CPU fan and heatsink...

Edited by Wino, 26 May 2007 - 01:48 PM.





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