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Increasing Acceptance Of Immoral Ethics.


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#1 solaris32

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 02:21 AM

This is something I've always thought about and observed, how many previously immoral and unethical behaviors are being accepted today, mainly by our youth. Just to clarify, I'm 19 and in college in the USA. This thread mainly refers to American youth because it's the only country I've had experience with.

Just for starters, drinking, drugs, fast driving, rebellious attitude and behaviors, cursing, pornography, sex, and many more, are being more and more accepted and adopted by our youth. (Check out post #7 for clarification). If your'e, say, 30, I'm sure your'e aware your youth wasn't this corrupt. Sure, they did all this, but nowhere near as bad as I'm seeing today. From the media to walking down the street, such actions and immoral behavior, thoughts, and attitudes can be observed. I've talked to some of these people, and they honestly think it's ok to be like this. I even know someone who wholeheartedly believes it's ok to steal, as long as they don't know the person. I'm sure you know worse people.

So what will the USA be like when these youth have reached their 30's? What will they teach their children? How will those children compare to their parents? I doubt this nation's steady spiral into immoral behavior will stop with our youth's children. Of course, many people don't even realize this, and are just "going with the flow."

What are your opinions on this matter? Is there anything that can be done? Don't be afraid to post!

Edited by solaris32, 10 April 2007 - 06:03 PM.

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#2 kboaz2001

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 08:25 AM

I, along with many others feel the same way you do, and are sincerely concerned about the declining morals and ethics of today's youth. I think that there are several reasons for it. I feel that one of the major causes is the media, movies today promote these attitudes as being normal. We are also living in a society where biological family living in the same house is in the minority, divorce and/or single parenting seems to be the norm. A lot of times kids are left to fend for themselves because their parent(s)/guardian(s) are working and there is no leadership or discipline in the household.

I feel that our society is drifting away from morality because we are drifting away from church. I am one of 6 children who was raised in a Christian family. My father worked and my mother stayed at home and took care of us children. Every one of those children has grown up to be an upstanding citizen. Four of us, including myself has honorably served their country in the military. Two of us had positions in the White House while serving. I am not saying by any means that this is a perfect family, but we did have loving Christian parents who raised us, and it shows today.

I kind of want to shy away from bring religion into this discussion, but I am a Christian and find it hard not to. But over the last 10 years or so, there have been several Bible based movements who are attempting to reverse this trend of decreasing morality. One of them is the Right from Wrong campaign from Josh McDowell, and the other is the Battlecry campaign. These movements are attempting to bring America's youth back into a relationship with Christ.

I did struggle with replying to your post, and I hope that I did not come on too strong. But this is how I feel.

#3 solaris32

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 04:57 PM

Nah, you didn't come on strong at all. in fact, my parents are Christians too. But you don't have to be a Christian to realize what I have stated in the first post. I also happen to agree with everything you said :thumbsup:. Thank you very much for posting.
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#4 seafox14

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 05:03 PM

Primary cause of the situation that you started this thread on can be summed up into 2 words. "Moral Relativism" .

Moral Relativism

It is this concept that has caused the decline of this society more than anything (at least from a secular p.o.v.).
Many on this site know my stance on faith, so I'll only give those views if asked.

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5 So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world

#5 solaris32

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 05:24 PM

From what I understand, moral relativity basically means that morals are based on culture, background, time-frame, etc. and that a universal moral system is impossible, because everyone is different. This leads to the acceptance of previously immoral things because "it's ok for them, why not me?" Very good find, I will remember and refer to this whenever I discuss this again. And you can give more in-depth views on this if you like, I don't mind :thumbsup:.
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#6 Animal

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 05:41 PM

Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers.
Author: Socrates

So I guess if Socrates observed it, and made a quote regarding it. It's not exactly a "new" trend. The hippies of the the 60's were supposed to be the absolute moral degradation of American society as we knew it. We survived. The children that Socrates observed did not destroy civilization did it? Civilization goes on.

drinking, drugs, fast driving, rebellious attitude and behaviors, cursing, pornography, sex, and many more

Drinking is immoral? Drugs?? Americans now spend a staggering $200 billion a year on prescription drugs, and that figure is growing at a rate of about 12 percent a year (down from a high of 18 percent in 1999). I think the Drug industry might take umbrage to that concept. Fast driving???? Huh? Rebellious attitude and behaviour? Last I looked thats what this country was founded upon? As well as First Amendment advocates saying this is a right Cursing?? That one will have problems with the First Amendment advocates too...Pornography?? That one I will not argue is a moral dilemma.Sex??Do you mean pornographic sex or sex in general? If you mean pornographic then you are repeating yourself. If you refer to sex in general then I do believe you will raise the ire of quite a few people when you start regulating bedrooms of married people and other consenting adults. and many more???? I am curious where the list ends as to whats not immoral.

Since morality is a purely mortal human judgement call, I prefer not to judge others lest they judge me. Otherwise I am sure one of my judgements would be construed as immoral. I have this thing for driving fast when safe and possible and does not impede or put others at risk.

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#7 solaris32

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 06:01 PM

Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers.
Author: Socrates

So I guess if Socrates observed it, and made a quote regarding it. It's not exactly a "new" trend. The hippies of the the 60's were supposed to be the absolute moral degradation of American society as we knew it. We survived. The children that Socrates observed did not destroy civilization did it? Civilization goes on.

drinking, drugs, fast driving, rebellious attitude and behaviors, cursing, pornography, sex, and many more

Drinking is immoral? Drugs?? Americans now spend a staggering $200 billion a year on prescription drugs, and that figure is growing at a rate of about 12 percent a year (down from a high of 18 percent in 1999). I think the Drug industry might take umbrage to that concept. Fast driving???? Huh? Rebellious attitude and behaviour? Last I looked thats what this country was founded upon? As well as First Amendment advocates saying this is a right Cursing?? That one will have problems with the First Amendment advocates too...Pornography?? That one I will not argue is a moral dilemma.Sex??Do you mean pornographic sex or sex in general? If you mean pornographic then you are repeating yourself. If you refer to sex in general then I do believe you will raise the ire of quite a few people when you start regulating bedrooms of married people and other consenting adults. and many more???? I am curious where the list ends as to whats not immoral.

Since morality is a purely mortal human judgement call, I prefer not to judge others lest they judge me. Otherwise I am sure one of my judgements would be construed as immoral. I have this thing for driving fast when safe and possible and does not impede or put others at risk.

Be (Philosophical Differences) Safe

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First, when I said drugs, I was refering to illegal drugs like marijuana, cocaine, etc. Drinking, especially underage, is immoral because it puts you and other people at risk. Not to mention it harms your body. Youth's obsession with fast driving is dangerous and against the law (when they go above the speed limit). Rebellious attitude and behavior refers to how many youth talk to and treat their parents, teachers, and other authority figures. Cursing, especially when aimed at someone, is rude and unnecessary. Sex in the form of pornography is wrong because sex is a private act between 2 people and not for anyone else to see. Sex, I am refering to adultery and anything else that is not between 2 married people. Many more refers to other behaviors like a lack of caring towards other people, and unsolicited violence. Of course, there are MANY nice people. Many of these references to immoral behavior is based on a religious fortified standpoint. If you don't have that, then you probably won't relate very well.

Just because the 60's era didn't bring about the downfall of the USA, doesn't mean that it was ok or acceptable. Personally, I'd rather this nation not go through that again. But thank you for your opinion, I appreciate it :thumbsup:.

Edited by solaris32, 10 April 2007 - 06:05 PM.

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#8 BlackSpyder

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 07:27 PM

alot of our generations issues actually stem from a backlash against the "moral majority" in the 1980's. most parents didnt like being told how to raise their children or live their lives.

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#9 jgweed

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 08:25 PM

Although it ignores Nietzsche's important critique of moral relativism and its consequences (Beyond Good and Evil, for example) a far better discussion of "moral relativism" can be found at the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosphy:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/moral-relativism/

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Edited by jgweed, 10 April 2007 - 08:31 PM.

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#10 Animal

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 10:34 PM

But thank you for your opinion, I appreciate it :thumbsup:.

You are quite welcome. The major point I was trying to make is that statements made with generalizations about morality can be twisted so far out of shape by either side so as to distort the original context of the rhetoric.

I'll enjoy watching this discussion...

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#11 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 11:41 PM

Well I see other things.
Like the DRESS of todays people.

Give 20 years ago and you didnt see these tiny swimsuits on beaches.

I cant believe anybody would even think of going on a beach topless or in a thong but some just think its okay. Look at europe....Its even on their TV's!

Cussing is pathetic now days.

Kids cant even make a sentence because they think cussing is cool because all the idiots at hollywood do it.

Cussing shows lack of knowledge.

And no using hell and dam# is no different.

It turns me off when I hear somebody cuss. So many other words that could be used to describe something instead its just #$%$ this and #$%# that.

The Bible says kids would get more rebellious as the end times came near.

All the junk you see today is lack of parenting.

Thats right its the PARENTS.

They let them do this stuff. I have seen some sad parents who are total idiots who wont even punish or tell kids what to do whether right or wrong because "they dont want to impose their judgement on them"....

Their ought to be parenting books handed out at the hospital at birth with "parenting does and dont's for total idiots."

And yes sex before marriage. No morals now days among many. They have sex and then are so sad when "surprise(not really)" they get pregnant.

Then they just dont no what to do....

They(more like usually the young girl) has to drop out of school or struggle through it. It can ruin their lives.

They need teachers, they need GOOD parents.

Parents now work work work.

Both parents. It seems the days of the Dad working and the Wife raising the kids is gone. But not all...

Now both work and guess who raises the kids? Guess where they spend most of their time.

IN DAY CARE/SCHOOL

Other kids kinda raise them. They do what the other kids do.

Family time is very important. This also goes hand in hand with all this. You dont teach your kids whats right and wrong they are bound to get in trouble from the people who know what is. Like the law.

#12 Wildabeast

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 01:35 AM

All the junk you see today is lack of parenting.


This is true, parents today want to be friends with their children. Children need parents, not friends, they get enough friends at school and in the nieghborhood. You should not expect the school system to raise your kids for you, it's bad enough they only do a half assed job of educating them, don't put more on them. :thumbsup:
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#13 solaris32

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 01:46 AM

Very good opinions everyone! I'm glad to see the majority of people agree, at least to some degree. Don't be afraid to post if you disagree! But don't forget to say why.
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#14 locally pwned

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 07:29 AM

Animal, I have to agree with you. I am glad you posted that quote from Socrates; the when I read the first post of this thread, my first thought was of a foggy memory of a bit of text written by a Sumerian describing how the youth of the day was lacking education, morals, and responsibility.


solaris32, interesting topic!

Though certain elements of our society do seem to have digressed in terms of conventional morality, we have certainly gained in many areas as well. Social growth is often slow, painful, and certainly non-linear. But then, you and I are lucky that we haven't lived in an era when things were in fact bad, so let’s put it into perspective.

When people talk about how much better the "good ol' days" were, I often wonder which days those were, exactly. Were they back in the 50's when open racism existed everywhere? Were these wonderful days further back still, when children were forced to work on factory floors? How about back when slavery was widespread? Good times, moral days? How about the 1850's in the Western US...between killing and displacing countless natives, do you imagine that things were healthy and moral in frontier towns...whore houses, gunfights over gambling debts, violence exceeding anything we experience today. Are those the days you long for? Oh, I know…how about the witch burnings of the early puritans or the inquisitions in the middle ages?

And you think swearing, rebellious teens "texting" on their cell phones during class marks the beginning of the "end of days?"

I would argue that in fact right now we are experiencing social growing pains. We have cast off the shackles of many forms of early repression; but we aren't sure exactly how to deal with our new freedoms. Some embrace the "wind" but are in effect experimenting as they go; others try to cling to and even reinstate some of the "social control mechanisms" of the past.

Animal made some very good responses to your original post, so I will continue with your rebuttal:

1. First, when I said drugs, I was refering to illegal drugs like marijuana, cocaine, etc.
2. Drinking, especially underage, is immoral because it puts you and other people at risk.
3. Not to mention it harms your body.
4. Youth's obsession with fast driving is dangerous and against the law (when they go above the speed limit).
5. Rebellious attitude and behavior refers to how many youth talk to and treat their parents, teachers, and other authority figures.
6. Sex in the form of pornography is wrong because sex is a private act between 2 people and not for anyone else to see.
7. Sex, I am refering to adultery and anything else that is not between 2 married people.

8. Many more refers to other behaviors like a lack of caring towards other people, and unsolicited violence. Of course, there are MANY nice people. Many of these references to immoral behavior is based on a religious fortified standpoint. If you don't have that, then you probably won't relate very well.

9. Just because the 60's era didn't bring about the downfall of the USA, doesn't mean that it was ok or acceptable. Personally, I'd rather this nation not go through that again. But thank you for your opinion, I appreciate it...


1. Does the current legal status of a drug determine its moral standing? How many lives are shattered by the legal drug: alcohol? On the other side of the coin, marijuana can be used to ease the suffering of cancer patience. Making it illegal even for that purpose is equivalent to creating suffering...to cause pain and suffering is immoral, no?

2. Underage drinking: I can't think of another besides the US that sets the drinking age at 21. So even the term "underage" is relative. Is the rest of the world "immoral" for allowing 19 year olds to drink legally?

3. In large doses, yes. In moderation, both beer and wine have shown health benefits.

4. Youth's obsession with fast driving is a new thing? How about the 60's...muscle cars and cheap gas? Gee, no fast-drivin' kids back then!

5. Rebellious attitude is nothing new either. Sometimes it is simply a matter of immaturity; most kids with that sort of "rebellious" nature grow out of it.

6. Pornography, to me, might constitute immorality in the sense that it can so heavily damage the lives of the individuals who partake in its creation.

7. I would also consider adultery in monogamous relationships to be immoral, again because in the end such behavior cannot but harm someone involved. But then, consenting adults, in my opinion, must have open communication in their relationships and in that way "lay the ground rules" for the nature of their relationship. In other words, two "swingers" who agree to the nature of their relationship ahead of time are not committing adultery by stepping out. Since their actions are consensual, it is therefore not immoral as such. On the other hand, if a couple was committed to monogamy and one partner chose to have relations with someone else, that would be adultery; it would be immoral, since it would harm the unwitting partner.

8. The ongoing theme here, methinks, is that your "religious fortified" viewpoint of morality is based on the idea that there are set behaviors in which morality is pre-ordained; the situation, the history, and the ramifications of the given behavior are besides the point. To me there are many variables that have to be included in any analysis of morality. I suppose that's where the "relative" bit comes in, at least, in my opinion. I view the world as far too complex for clear cut answers when it comes to human social interaction.

9. You might not have liked those "stinking hippies" :thumbsup: ...but the 60's brought with it much needed social change. The oppressed fought oppression; our nation confronted racism and sexism, breaking the repressive molds of the past and moving toward and era where there is equality...not that we are there yet...but it was an important start. The civil rights movement is not something I would ever wish away.

Seafox, I know you've often spoken against moral relativism. But how often have churches changed their views on things? From the obvious, such as the policy that killing heathens and heretics was a positive thing to do; the use of torture to force conversion; and let's not forget centuries of holy war. Or move to more recent times, where, for example, the Catholic Church supported Mussolini's fascist Italy (Hitler fashioned his national socialist movement in Germany after Mussolini's in Italy). Somehow, Jesus doesn't strike me as someone who would have supported fascism. Yet at the time, the church thought it was "right" to do so.

Time and time again churches, both Catholic and Protestant, change their positions in a decidedly "relativistic" way. If churches weren't "relativistic," they'd still be burning people for practicing "witchcraft" today!

Edited by locally pwned, 11 April 2007 - 07:41 AM.

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#15 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 12:39 PM

Its what the Bible says localpawned.

"the Catholic Church supported Mussolini's fascist Italy"

I want to add the catholics worship marry not Jesus. They dont even worship the true God Jesus Christ.


2. Underage drinking: I can't think of another besides the US that sets the drinking age at 21. So even the term "underage" is relative. Is the rest of the world "immoral" for allowing 19 year olds to drink legally?


Its not quite the drinking its the "getting drunk" thats wrong.

Edited by cowsgonemadd3, 11 April 2007 - 12:41 PM.





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