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Question about using created HP recovery disks


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#1 fredyb

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 01:58 AM

Mod Edit
This post was split from this topic:
Question About Necessity And Frequency Of Defragging Hard Drive


I cant believe I finally found a topic that pertained to me and my problem, I just joined this site after finding it on goggle, I have visited so many different forums from other sites that never discussed this problem.

I do have a question about can or cant defragment a partitioned drive, a week ago I bought an HP desktop XP Media center m7330n, I never had a computer with a partitioned drive before, when buying the computer from this fellow and after checking it out and everything was fine he gave me all manuals cables etc. I asked him where are the restore disc's, he said it didn't come with any, he almost lost the sale when I thought he was lying, after investigating he was right, I never heard of any computer that did not come with a restore and drive disc's, but HP for some reason decided not to do it that way, stupid idea if you ask me but nothing we can do about it.

The fellow told me if anything happens to my hardrive I can do a system restore from the d drive partition, also I can create them myself from HP create restore disc's, he also said whatever you do don't mess with the d drive at all, its a 250 hardrive on c, and about 10gb on d. OK advise well taken.

After bringing the computer home I used it for several days and set it up just the way I want it installing everything I needed and normally use, than I decided to clean everything up like I always did using my 3rd party software called systemsuite7 pro from VCOM.com, formally known as Ontrack which I used for years, it performs all kinds of cleanups including defragmenting etc.

The day I was going to make a copy of restore disc's I cleaned all temp files etc. and clicked on defrag, after doing so I walked away for several minutes, came back and noticed drive c was already defragmented but to my surprise it started to defrag drive d, I said oh oh, I decided not to stop it thinking maybe interrupting the defrag on the so called fragile d and let it go, the other surprise was it took about 8 min. to defrag c, but about an hour to defrg d, which was only 10gigs, than it stopped at 99% and just hung there, I waited another hour and than just shut it off.

Hoping of course I didn't ruin anything with d, than I opened the create your own restore disc's page, first it read in red, do not attempt to do anything with drive d, and also said you have only one shot in making the restore disc's, one shot? oh man did I screw up here with defragmenting d even though it was unintentional, and even if I successfully create it how do I really know if it will work after something goes wrong, and if that is not the only problem, trying to get an firm answer to this is worse than the possible problem I created.

Deciding on what to do, I knew I would have to contact VCOM, HP, or both, dealing with most 3rd party software's the answer you will probably get is since its an HP drive you will have to contact HP, as you most know than you can contact HP and they to can say its a VCOM issue contact them, does this pass the buck scenario bring back any memories? So I e-mailed support at HP and explained my concern about recovery disc's now and here was the answer.

I also see that you have performed a defragmentation on the D: drive
with a third-party application. We cannot assure that whether the
recovery partition has been affected by it since we do not have enough
expertise regarding how the third party application defragment the
drive.
I would suggest that you backup all the data and than perform a complete
destructive recovery to know if the drive has been affected or not.


To perform destructive recovery perform the steps given below.

CAUTION: If extra hard drives have been added to the HP Pavilion,
disconnect the IDE and power cable from the back of the
extra drive before performing a system recovery to
prevent data loss on the new drive.

CAUTION: Performing a Destructive Recovery will format the hard
drive. This will delete all the information on the hard
drive and reinstall Windows XP and the original software
that came with the PC. In this case, be prepared to
reinstall software that was not originally included
with the PC. You will also need to reconfigure an
Internet Connection and obtain all critical Windows
Updates, Virus definition updates, and anti-spyware
updates.

CAUTION: If the PC has a Personal Media Drive attached, remove
the drive before performing the recovery.

To perform Destructive Recovery, follow the steps below:

1. Disconnect all peripherals and internal non-preinstalled devices
from the PC, except the monitor, keyboard, and mouse.

2. Turn on the computer.

3. When the initial blue HP screen opens, press the F10 key repeatedly
until a recovery menu appears. The progress indicator that first
appears does not indicate that a recovery is taking place. The
progress indicator represents the time before the recovery process
is started.

4. When the Recovery screen opens, click Next.

5. Click Advanced, and then click Yes to perform a destructive
recovery.

After the System Recovery is complete, and the computer starts
successfully, update the computer software by visiting the Web sites
below:

* Update the system virus definitions

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/documen...ocname=bph07130

* Get the latest critical system updates using Microsoft's Windows
Update

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/documen...ocname=bph07159

* Update the HP software on the system

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/documen...ocname=bph07165

This will reinstall the Windows XP Operating System and all the other
preinstalled software and drivers.

If the destructive recovery is successful than you can create a recovery
CDs as well as can be assured that the recovery partition is not
affected.

I hope the information that I have provided is useful to you. If you
need
further assistance, please reply to this message and we will be glad to
assist you further.

Have a Wonderful Day!!

You may receive an e-mail survey regarding your e-mail support
experience. We would appreciate your feedback.

HP Total Care is a J.D. Power and Associates Certified Technology
Service and Support Center, recognized for consistently providing "An
Outstanding Customer Service Experience". For information on keeping
your HP and Compaq products up and running, please visit our Web site
at:

http://www.hp.com/go/totalcare

Sincerely,

Maverick
HP Total Care


I e-mailed them back and explained that I am a novice and what you guys are asking me to do is way over my head, also that you want me to erase everything and start again, after I finally found all my info and installed all my app's and software, which insistently I purchased over the internet and had such a hard time recovering or finding reg. keys that also will only let you use it one time more, I don't think so. After explaining that, here was the second response.

I can understand that you had found the steps to perform
recovery
a bit complicated. Please take your time to understand the process.
I would however recommend that you create the recovery CDs. We can
certainly
ship you the recovery CDs if something goes wrong during the recovery
process. However, please try and create the recovery CDs as it will
make you more familiar with the recovery process as well.

I hope you find the information useful. If you have any further queries

or concerns, please reply to this message. We will be glad to assist
you further.

Have a Nice Day!!


OK, what they don't tell you is first they want you to try everything and anything before they will even consider sending you actual restore disc's, its like pulling teeth, after talking to other people that have tried to obtain them about 10% were able to get them, they put you threw hell everyone said, most gave up and said they will try and obtain them from other non HP sites, I have found some but who knows how reputable anybody is, and I certainly don't want to get into a trail and error issue if my drive crashes and I find out what I bought doesn't work, but either way its not safe to own a computer without recovery disc' period, that's just common sense, either way I will make a copy from HP make your restore disc, if it works, and after a successful copy will it work later, and of course you wont really know unless it works until you try and do a complete restore which I don't want to do.

So here is my main and final question, am I just being paranoid here and all this means nothing, or is there a real issue here, is there an expert out there that actually knows if I could have done something to this so called sensitive partitioned d drive by accidentally defraging it, somebody please help, Thank You.

Edited by tg1911, 07 April 2007 - 06:35 AM.


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#2 usasma

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 06:30 AM

Go to the Drivers section of the HP website, input your model number, then select your OS, then scroll down until you get to the section on restore disks. Order them (they used to cost about $20 shipping included).
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

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#3 fredyb

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 01:13 PM

usasma, thank you for the reply, yes I know some about getting the discs, only getting them from hp is extremly difficult, I already looked into it, there are also other sites they advertize sales for them, but doing that is no way as hard as trying to get an answer did I create an issue by defraging my partitioned d drive.

#4 garmanma

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 03:24 PM

Simply defragging a drive should not harm it at all. Defragging is a tool to help clean up a drive by repositioning the drives sectors back to their original state. Here's some reading on the subject
Why Defrag
Mark

Edited by garmanma, 07 April 2007 - 03:24 PM.

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#5 usasma

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 03:58 PM

I wouldn't use anything other than an HP recovery disk - too many chances that what you've ordered is a waste of money.

My experiences with the process (have done it at least 5 times) of ordering from HP is that it's actually pretty darned easy to do. They've also got free telephone numbers to order it if you don't want to do it on the computer.
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#6 fredyb

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Posted 07 April 2007 - 04:33 PM

usasma, yeah I hear ya, I to would not want to chance anything other than an actual hp restore disc, I did try and contact them about that, trying to understand the people at thier tech support is a real trick, I just keep saying what, what, what, it drove me crazy and I gave up.

I read on another site a fellow ran into the same problem and kept on insisting to get an american speaking person, after repeaded requests he finally got a guy in texas and was able to order his disc, I tried that, they would put me on hold than I would get cut off, but I will keep on trying.

Also, I rechecked my hp manual and also read everything thier was to read about my problem, nowhere at hp or my 3rd party defrag says anything about do not defrag your partitioned drive, even though when I click on my computer, drive d, it does say in red to not attempt to make any modifications on drive d.

I created that one time restore disc if it will work or not some day I dont know, but because I do not want to take any chances I will not give up till I get one from hp.

#7 bloomcounty

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 08:41 AM

Did HP tell you that it's okay (preferred) that you do include the D: partition when you run an A/V scan? That's what they told me... but I'm wondering if this is accurate...
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#8 fredyb

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 02:42 AM

bloomcounty, no, but I never questioned them about running a a/v program, I never got into that, defragmenting I did as you can see on my lengthly post conversing with them.

You see you very rarely can anyone get a straight answer from those tech people at hp, I've not only learned that from my own experiance but also from others I read about and conversed with, most of these people are not experts, what they do is they have a manual that they use and follow it, e.g. as you read thier answer to me they will not say yes or no to my question, why, because they don't know, they follow the manual rules and play it safe, sure its easy to say to me erase everything, re-install, than try it, hello, thats what I am trying to avoid, what if I did cause a problem defragging my d drive and the one time feature to create my own restore disc fails because of it, than I'm up the creek, or there might be no problem at all.

My question if givin to an expert would be a simple one, either defraging d will corrupt it or it wont, but the tech people from hp will play it safe especially if they dont know the proper answer, they will never say we dont know.

I'll tell you what else I learned the past couple of days, there is an Indian fellow near my neighboorhood that has a tobbaco store I frequent often, we got to talking about computers and I expalined my problem, and to my luck he use to be one of those tech guys back home, he started laughing, I asked whats funny, he explained exactly what I'm writing about, even though I already knew about some of what goes on there he just confirmed it, yes they do use a manual, and if your question really cant be answered your pretty much gonna get somewhat of a run around, like in my case and many others, its a proccess they hope you will find on your own, or get aggravated enough and just quit and send your problem to some comp. repair shop, if the answer they gave me doesnt work they will look for another trial type sollution for you, its a constant run around, and don't get me wrong, many times they can help with less difficult problems, but like I said before, they can not say we don't know, they'll put you thru a ringer first.

They also are vigourasly trained not to send you to some high tech guy in the states, if you have the gumption to keep on trying and not lose your patience sooner or later you will be guided to one, but only after constantly bieng put on hold, hung up on, complaining, waiting, getting the dreaded dial tone again after holding for 30 min, again and again, than you start asking for names, dates and logging all your correspondents and threaten them with that than you might get a high tech guy.

Same goes on trying to get a restore disc from them, unless I do everything they ask me to do first which is nuts, or if your hard drive crashes and your restore disc doesnt work, than they will send you one, or in my case I would have to lie and say thats exactly what happined to obtain one, the Indian fellow told me they have a deal with microsoft not to freely give out those disc's, only as last resorts, which in my case I aready know cause I tried it.

In ending this whole thing is a sham to me, first no outfit should sell any computer without giving you an original restore disc period, a lot of people are unhappy about that besides myself, and of course I do not want to start erasing everything like they suggest first of all everything is running fine, I just bought this used hp a couple of weeks ago and its working great, and sure people can say to me go ahead and wipe out your drive and re-install no big deal, well maybe for other people it is, it took me a long time to install everything I have in this computer, I'm no geek far from it, than I had to get all my key numbers I had had from downloading softwares I had purhased on the net, and thats like pulling teeth also, I was told by several of them they will give out the key this time but next time I will have to re-purchase it, do you see where I'm getting here. And yes people will say get another drive external or not and ghost it than re-install, or get one of them ghost softwares like nortons ghost or acronis and make a copy of your whole system, well thats an expense, another drive, getting it installed if not external and worse driving to figure out one of them ghosting systems, I looked into that, it was chinese to me, its like me taking a computer geek give him several pieces of paper and say go ahead and build this house for me, NOW HOW DO YOU LIKE IT, well thats how us computer stupid people feel, I am a retired construction worker, and when ever asked about building anything I would expalin in a language they would understand and not in a shop forman or job superindentand terms, like I'm sad to say most computer people do like expalining things using computer lingo that makes no sense to you in the first place.

I will learn in my own pace by trail and error like most I guess, I didnt grow up in this games, computers, etc. era, but I'll get it, in the mean time I just wanted to get a simple answer to my question, or better yet just sell me the damn disc without the hassle, my God what is the big deal, and the disc, what could it cost, 25, 50, 75, 100, I'd gladly pay a 100 just to get off this problem.

And please forgive me, I didnt mean to rant, I guess I just vented some, I feel better and thanks for listening, and don't forget people, there are a lot of computer stupid people out there, many more than there are geeks, and that us people that dint grow up in a tech world its even harder, but I will tell you this, I have learned more from places like this and other forum sites than I ever did talking to salespeople or reading manuals, and I say thanks to all people from forums like this one and others where most people are great. And by the way here is an answer I got from a gentleman from another site. ----------------------------------------

It took long to defragment D because that partition has little to no free space which makes it harder to defragment. Secondly, I'm pretty sure defragmenting the partition will have no affect on your ability to make restore disks. The partition contains a file to restore your computer. Defragmenting it should have no bearing on its ability to create restore disks.
----------------------------------------

After reading that I felt better, but I will still not give up in obtaining a restore disc from hp, thank you for lending me your ear.

#9 bloomcounty

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 09:56 AM

I totally agree with your assessment of HP's tech support. Same issues here. I wonder if there is a number for getting a person in the US directly... I think I'll post a thread asking that here! :trumpet:

I'm going to refrain from defragging the D: partition, as someone here posted that not defragging it will have no bearing on whether or not it restores properly -- meaning, it doesn't matter how fragmented the files are if you need to restore. Apparently, it's created completely fragmented, because we both show that it technically needs to be defragged. But I'm going with no reason to mess with it...

Hope everything goes well for you with it all! Definitely post and let us know if you ever find out any useful info actually from HP! :flowers:

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#10 fredyb

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 10:20 AM

bloomcounty, I sure will no problem, and as far as a direct number to us support, you know I can kick myself in the butt, a while ago I did hear from a fellow that went thru the big run around, and I dont remember if he said if they switched him to a us support team or if they actually gave him a number, if they did you could probably sell it off like dope in the streets, but you know, I will ask my friend from the tobbaco store even though he said he worked with gateway support which is similar to hp, but he might have some ideas you never know.




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