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Wga Validation Tool (kb892130) Vs Notification (kb905474) -- Need Both?


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#1 bloomcounty

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 02:53 PM

I have automatic updates off and go to the Windows Update site myself to do updates once a month. I have a genuine copy of XP SP2 on my computer.

I downloaded the Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool (KB892130) on Feb. 4 and have been able to download Windows Critical Updates, etc. by going to the Windows Update site. However, now it's telling me to download Windows Genuine Advantage Notification (KB905474) -- and that's a different name. This new thing is a program that I have to agree to licensing stuff and allow info to be sent to Microsoft and it says that it can never be removed, etc. This apparently is an update from last year that has been revised now.

1. So why am I only now being prompted to download the NOTIFICATION update (which is the one that has all the agreements, can't be removed, etc. etc.), if I was prompted and able to download the VALIDATION TOOL back in Feb.?

2. I believe I had to download the VALIDATION TOOL back in Feb. in order to continue to get critical updates, etc. and the updates for this month all popped up, as far as I know. One of them was this Windows Genuine Advantage NOTIFICATION (KB905474). If I already have the VALIDATION TOOL, do I need to install this NOTIFICATION thing as well to continue to be able to download Windows Updates?

2a. If I don't install it, will I not be able to get Windows Updates in the future?

3. I noticed that in the license agreement that it says you may need the Windows Genuine Advantage VALIDATION TOOL in order to get Windows Critical Updates, and that it comes as part of this Windows Genuine Advantage NOTIFICATION program. But I already have the VALIDATION TOOL from Feb., right? So why would I need to install this NOTIFICATION program to get it? It doesn't really say you need the NOTIFICATION program to get updates, just the VALIDATION TOOL.

I hope those questions make sense! :thumbsup:

I'm really confused about this. As of now, I did download it, but when the box came up to agree to it installing and all that crap about it sending info to Microsoft and not being able to uninstall, etc., I just canceled out of it. So Windows Update shows it as downloaded and "ready to install" for me as of now...

Any thoughts/help is appreciated! Thanks!

Edited by bloomcounty, 22 March 2007 - 01:10 PM.

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#2 ComputerWhizz7

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 04:18 PM

All the new one does is checks to see if your version of Windows is genuine when it's installed and then it checks it once and awhile. It does no harm to your computer so it's safe to install :flowers:. Just remember Microsoft is always under the microscope and people are always checking to see if they can find anything suspect with Windows :thumbsup:.

Edited by ComputerWhizz7, 21 March 2007 - 04:20 PM.

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#3 bloomcounty

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 05:12 PM

All the new one does is checks to see if your version of Windows is genuine when it's installed and then it checks it once and awhile. It does no harm to your computer so it's safe to install :flowers:. Just remember Microsoft is always under the microscope and people are always checking to see if they can find anything suspect with Windows :thumbsup:.


Thanks for the post. But I really want to understand this and the difference between the two. Can you or anyone answer the specific questions above that I had? It's really got me confuzed! :trumpet:

ComputerWhizz7 -- When you say the "newest one", which are you referring to? Technically (I believe), Windows Genuine Advantage Notification (KB905474) is the older one, from last year -- is that correct? (When I do a search for that # here, it comes up with posts from last year and talks about having to agree to the license terms and not being able to uninstall, etc.) And Windows Genuine Advantage Validation Tool (KB892130) is from Feb. of this year. However, I only got prompted to install Windows Genuine Advantage Notification (KB905474) right now. But I guess KB905474, while originally from last year, is revised/newer now, so that would explain that (sort of).

I don't like the idea of something running when it wants to on my system just to keep checking if my version of Windows is legit. Why would it need to keep doing this?

But I don't understand why I need Windows Genuine Advantage Notification (KB905474)? If it's the VALIDATION TOOL that's needed to keep getting Windows Updates, don't I already have that from Feb. with KB892130? Why do I need the one that's part of KB905474, especially if that's an older update? Am I missing something?

Also, I've heard that if you turn on Automatic Updates and set it to notify but not install, that you can still get Critical Updates that way, even without installing the WGA Notification Tool. Is this true? Or will nothing ever come through that way if you don't have the newest WGA?

Thanks!

Edited by bloomcounty, 21 March 2007 - 06:55 PM.

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#4 tekchallenged

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Posted 21 March 2007 - 09:53 PM

I can't answer your question, but I would be interested in an answer (if anyone can provide one). I have a licensed version of XP. It has been checked, validated (whatever) and I get updates. As with the OP, a new "update" has now appeared. As far as I am concerned, there is no valid reason for this purported "update" and I just declined it. I am finding tiresome Microsoft's treatment of legitimate paying customers as common thieves.
Feel free to assume that I won't know what you are talking about...

#5 bloomcounty

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 09:44 AM

I can't answer your question, but I would be interested in an answer (if anyone can provide one). I have a licensed version of XP. It has been checked, validated (whatever) and I get updates. As with the OP, a new "update" has now appeared. As far as I am concerned, there is no valid reason for this purported "update" and I just declined it. I am finding tiresome Microsoft's treatment of legitimate paying customers as common thieves.


So you did not install the one that actually calls up a user agreement you have to agree to, and states that your ip address will be sent to Microsoft and that the thing can never be removed, etc. etc.? It was like 1.3mb in size.

I *did* download this, but quit out of the install once that agreement popped up and then came and posted here. So it's downloaded, just not installed. (And when I go to Windows Updates, it shows as downloaded, but not installed, on my list of critical updates.) If I end up not installing this, do I just leave those files on my system and not worry about it? I fear actually trying to delete the downloaded files would prove problematic, because it's probably not easy, and then it would probably mess up Windows Updates recognition of whether or not it's downloaded (meaning, it might still think it was even if I delete the files), and that would be bad for things not to "match up" -- especially if it did ever reach a point where you have to have it (which, for all we know, may be now -- so I don't want to think about deleting any files yet).

And, again, I've heard that if you turn on Automatic Updates and set it to notify only and don't install the new big WGA thing, just hide it (so the WGA thing doesn't get installed automatically -- though, it really can't since you have to agree to the license agreement), that you can still get Critical Updates that way, even without installing the new big WGA Notification Tool. Is this true? Or will nothing ever come through even via Auotmatic Updates set to "notify only" if you don't have the newest WGA?

Looking forward to hearing more on all this -- thanks!

And keep in mind we're sort of talking about two things. There's the WGA VALIDATION TOOL, which is the thing I got back in Feb. that was smaller and did not have a license agreement attached to it. And the WGA NOTIFICATION thing, which is the larger program with the license agreement, and apparently *also* includes a VALIDATION TOOL as *part* of it. (And the license agreement mentions that you need the VALIDATION TOOL to get critical updates, and we all already have that from Feb., eh? Of course, it's possible you need a *never* VALIDATION TOOL than the one from Feb., which could be what's included with this new big NOTIFICATION program that has the license agreement.)
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#6 tekchallenged

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 10:57 AM

I have no idea what's happening or what I've downloaded, and I am beyond caring (other than not being able to tolerate these constant instrusions and annoyances). I am sick to death of trying to figure out what the updates are - MS should disclose in comprehensible English exactly what their updates do and why they want to impose them on me and why they seem to have multiple updates covering the same thing. I am sure these validation updates have appeared before.....I even had an idea that I might have installed them before. :thumbsup:

In relation to disposing of downloaded but not installed updates, I asked about this before because one had downloaded (apparently without my approval) and it was posted that it was killing people's computers and I didn't want it. I was told that you get another chance to say "no" if you pick the custom install choice and I hid it that way....Not sure if the same applies with the "Gestapo-ware" though :flowers:

Hopefully some computer savvy person will be able to enlighten us :trumpet:
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#7 bloomcounty

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 12:00 PM

In relation to disposing of downloaded but not installed updates, I asked about this before because one had downloaded (apparently without my approval) and it was posted that it was killing people's computers and I didn't want it. I was told that you get another chance to say "no" if you pick the custom install choice and I hid it that way....Not sure if the same applies with the "Gestapo-ware" though :flowers:


Right, so... hmmm.... I do notice that if I go to Windows update, it lists that WGA NOTIFICATION upate as being downloaded and not installed -- and I believe I still have the option to not select it and "hide it" (I'm not at my home computer right now). So you're saying that doing so will remove the files from my computer? That would be great -- but I have a feeling that it'll just leave them on there, just not installed. Thoughts?

I, too, am hoping someone with knowledge of all this stops by, is able to read the specific questions/concerns and clue us in with some specific answers. :thumbsup: <--That's a thumbs up in advance! :trumpet:

Thanks!

Edited by bloomcounty, 22 March 2007 - 01:10 PM.

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#8 bloomcounty

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 05:53 PM

Answers maybe!

http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/downloads/FAQ.aspx

Q: What if a customer does not want the WGA Notification application as part of their Automatic Updates? Can customers remove the WGA Notifications permanently?
A: During the opt-in phase, users who have AU turned on will be invited to participate through an opt-in process. Only users who choose to participate will have WGA Notifications installed on their machines. Once installed, WGA Notifications becomes a permanent part of user’s Windows XP system, and cannot be uninstalled. However, participants will have the option to suppress all the notifications for some length of time. Users will not have the option of uninstalling WGA Notifications. Users who fail validation will be taken to a Web page with a prominent option to license genuine Windows.


Q: What is the difference between WGA Validation Tool and WGA Notifications?
A: WGA Validation determines whether the copy of Windows XP installed on a PC is genuine and licensed. WGA Validation was launched worldwide in July 2005. It is required for any download on Windows Update, Microsoft Update and the Download Center.

WGA Notifications is software that is distributed through Automatic Updates that reminds users who fail validation that they are not running genuine Windows and directs them to resources to learn more about the benefits of using genuine Windows software. WGA Notifications is currently not required to use Automatic Updates.


Q: Will users of non-genuine Windows be blocked from receiving security updates?
A: No. Regardless of genuine status, users will not be denied access to critical security updates. Users who have not validated their computers as genuine, however, will not be able to install many updates, including Internet Explorer 7.0 and Windows Defender. Microsoft strongly recommends that users of non-genuine systems correct their problem immediately.

-----------

Me: Therefore, if you set your Automatic Updates to "notify only" and just ignore this update, you'll continue to get your critical updates. Actually, it even sounds like you can still get critical updates from Windows Update directly, from that last answer, as I'd think that would apply to genuine users, eh?

My Questions:

1. So can you, Fenor, or someone tell me how I can get rid of the downloaded uninstalled files for this? As of now, it's downloaded, but when the box came up to agree to it installing and all that crap about it sending info to Microsoft and not being able to uninstall, etc., I just canceled out of it. So Windows Update site shows it as downloaded and "ready to install" for me as of now...

1a. Is there a way to easily get these uninstalled files off my computer?

1b. In doing so, will the Windows Update site recognize that they're no longer there and go back to listing it as something that needs to be downloaded and installed?

2. If I can't delete the uninstalled files, when I turn on Automatic Updates, but before I get the chance to change the settings to "Notify only", will my computer start installing these downloaded files automatically?

Thanks!

Edited by bloomcounty, 22 March 2007 - 06:06 PM.

My stats: Windows XP Home SP2; Firefox 3.0.14 w/ Ad-Block Plus; IE 6.0 (used only for monthly Windows Critical Updates); ZoneAlarm 6.1.744.001 Free; AVG 8.5 A/V Free; SuperAntispyware Free 4.28.1010

#9 tekchallenged

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 06:31 PM

WGA Notifications is software that is distributed through Automatic Updates that reminds users who fail validation that they are not running genuine Windows
This is precisely why there is no legitimate basis for this to be installed on my machine. I am not a user who has failed validation. I am a licensed user and there is nothing to remind me of - other than I should look at an alternative OS or start making plans to buy a MAC :thumbsup:

I was told how to delete the actual files which had been downloaded - I don't know how to post a link to that post, but if it is possible to search for it, you might find it again. I was more concerned to get that annoying shield off my little bar thingy (and deleting the files didn't make that go away, BTW...).
Feel free to assume that I won't know what you are talking about...

#10 TheTerrorist_75

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 06:38 PM

If your WinXP install is legit then no one should have a problem installing the WGA update. If you have a problem with that update because you have a pirated copy then format your drive and install Linux.
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#11 tekchallenged

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 07:23 PM

If your WinXP install is legit then no one should have a problem installing the WGA update.

I disagree. I don't install any program that I don't need. If I were asked to download something to do with MP3 or something else that I don't have, I would say "no" - doing it anyway when it doesn't apply to you is not logical, why use your disk space on something you don't need? And if asked to download something which does not apply and which the supplier already knows does not apply, the question for me is a big "why", the answer is "no reason", and the only appropriate response is "no, what for?"...
Feel free to assume that I won't know what you are talking about...

#12 bloomcounty

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 08:26 PM

If your WinXP install is legit then no one should have a problem installing the WGA update. If you have a problem with that update because you have a pirated copy then format your drive and install Linux.


My Windows is legit, but I don't like the idea of MS assigning a # to my computer and keeping tabs on me. Just a difference of opinion, I guess! ;)

Thanks for the help with the other stuff!
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#13 TheTerrorist_75

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 10:33 AM

For those of you who don't want the WGA and can't get further updates, don't come crying about some malware taking over your system and stealing far worse info than Microsoft.
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#14 bloomcounty

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 02:48 PM

For those of you who don't want the WGA and can't get further updates, don't come crying about some malware taking over your system and stealing far worse info than Microsoft.


I don't understand... maybe I'm just slow...? :flowers: Where does it say you can't get further Windows security updates if you don't install WGA Notification? Please list this so I and all others can see that what you are saying stated by Microsoft? Cool? Thanks!

According to this faq directly from Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/downloads/FAQ.aspx

Q: What if a customer does not want the WGA Notification application as part of their Automatic Updates? Can customers remove the WGA Notifications permanently?
A: During the opt-in phase, users who have AU turned on will be invited to participate through an opt-in process. Only users who choose to participate will have WGA Notifications installed on their machines. Once installed, WGA Notifications becomes a permanent part of user’s Windows XP system, and cannot be uninstalled. However, participants will have the option to suppress all the notifications for some length of time. Users will not have the option of uninstalling WGA Notifications. Users who fail validation will be taken to a Web page with a prominent option to license genuine Windows.


Q: What is the difference between WGA Validation Tool and WGA Notifications?
A: WGA Validation determines whether the copy of Windows XP installed on a PC is genuine and licensed. WGA Validation was launched worldwide in July 2005. It is required for any download on Windows Update, Microsoft Update and the Download Center.

WGA Notifications is software that is distributed through Automatic Updates that reminds users who fail validation that they are not running genuine Windows and directs them to resources to learn more about the benefits of using genuine Windows software. WGA Notifications is currently not required to use Automatic Updates.


Q: Will users of non-genuine Windows be blocked from receiving security updates?
A: No. Regardless of genuine status, users will not be denied access to critical security updates. Users who have not validated their computers as genuine, however, will not be able to install many updates, including Internet Explorer 7.0 and Windows Defender. Microsoft strongly recommends that users of non-genuine systems correct their problem immediately.


TheTerrorist_75
, are you saying that this faq from MS is incorrect? Or am I just reading it incorrectly?

To me, it sounds like you can ignore WGA Notification (for now), and still get Critical Updates. Now I'm not positive if you can only get them through Automatic Updates or if you can still get them from the Windows Update site, but...

My plan was to do the following:

1. Do not install WGA Notification (for now).
2. Do not turn on Automatic Updates (yet).
3. Wait until critical updates are released next month on the second Tuesday and go to the Windows Update site and see if it will let me install the *Critical Updates*.
4. If not, then I'll turn on Automatic Updates, set to *Notify Only* and let it tell me there are critical updates ready to download -- then download them that way.
5. Then, if/when the time comes (and I'm sure it will) that you NEED WGA Notification to get critical updates (and stated as such by Microsoft), then I will unhide the WGA Notification update and let it install.

Can you tell me how by doing this as stated above, I won't be able to get further updates, as you posted?

And please believe me, I'm not being sarcastic, I genuinely want to know your answer to this, keeping in mind what I've posted here. Cool? Thanks! :thumbsup:
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#15 TheTerrorist_75

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 02:53 PM

Download the damn thing and be done with it.
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