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Society Getting Worse


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#1 need TOS

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 07:05 PM

You ever notice those little kids in the grocery store that keep crying until their parents get them something and you think, if that was my kid they would be hoping we never got home, but then all of the sudden their mom/dad gets them what they were crying about just to make them happy. Or that teen that keeps begging his parents for a cell phone or the newest video game until they recieve it. Or if they do something bad like beat up a little kid their parents take them out to dinner because they are happy their kid "defended" him/her self.



As we look at that can you imagine how society will be in 10 or 20 years? Or even how it is now. Things are just going from bad to worse because people get what they want because others are tired of hearing them complain about it day in and day out. Where do you think the human race will be when they all are in government positions just because they look good, or can sing a certain song? I think that we are heading down the wrong road if we wont society to get better. Many always just sit there and complain wishing that things would get better so their children will be safe, yet they wonder why nothing ever changes seeing as they are the center of the universe (or so they think). Things are getting way out of hand, all the crime rates are huge in the United States. Kids into drugs, theft, rape, etc, etc. I think that we need to put harder dicipinary actions for crimes. The otherday on the news I heard some man who raped a child only got 5 years and yet some woman caught with some dope got 15 years, if it was my decision the man who raped the child would get a heavier sentence than the woman who does dope, wouldn't you all agree? Things are just not right now adays.

I want to know what are all of your opinions on the way society is moving as a whole. There are those like the great memebers on these forums that are not like that, I am not saying everyone is like that but society as a whole is following those few that are like that. How are we going to stop this trend, we simply can not let it continue or we will face some of the biggest promblems mankind has ever faced.



Hope you all enjoy yet consider what this topic means to you and those who live near you. :thumbsup:



-Steve

Edited by jgweed, 20 February 2007 - 07:09 PM.

Forgiveness is forgetting about a past that could have been

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#2 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 10:03 AM

Its a I want it now type world.
The kids want something then they work for it.

Thats right no car and no insurance or gas being paid by the parents unless you drive there "clunker"....

People are scared to spank their kids now days. Some stupid person wants to report them in for child abuse or something. The law needs to be more on our side.

In the real world kids wont get what they wont when they want unless they work for it. My dad worked over 40 hours a week while going to school. He was able to get a car of his own.

I have also went out and worked and bought a car of my own including the insurance and whatever else it takes to keep it around.

I think the way society is today is because of laziness.

Obesity is a epidemic. So is type 2 diabetes and its caused by being overweight usually.

I have been told of the old times and I would not want to go back to picking cotton but we need to get over being lazy.

People will not even use their tv if they cant find their remote. They would rather walk all around the house until they find it than to simple push the buttons on the tv itself.

The rapist should have gotten longer. But it seems the law does not like the good guys.

Edited by cowsgonemadd3, 20 February 2007 - 10:05 AM.


#3 Heretic Monkey

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 03:12 PM

I would love to see harsher punishment for crimes. Too many times i hear "***** has already been arrested twice for drunk driving. This is his third offense". That's the most specific example i can think of. There's no way a person should be able to violate the rules of the road in such a fashion and have the ability to commit the same act again. Drunk drivers should have their license taken away for 5-10-15 years after a DWI/DUI. 2nd offense results in MORE time without a license. Third offense = no more driving. Period.

I'm also sick of all the little children getting what they want, when they want, and having their parents cave to their every whim. Nothing irritates me more than to have a screaming child in front of/around me in a store, whining for candy or a video game, and the parent automatically picks it up and hands it to the kid. I'm never going to handle my kids like that. Sure, i'll buy them stuff they want, but i will NOT be swayed by whining, complaining, or tantrums.

As for society, it's been that way for a while. People that look good, or have money, will ALWAYS have power, leaving the "less fortunate" to either deal with the crap and have everything out of their control, or speak up and be heard. There ARE a lot of bad things about hearing complaints, but not EVERY complaint is meant to be a whiny voice....

#4 MaraM

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 04:36 PM

I truly agree full heartedly that something has gone wrong somewhere along the way.

Personally, I blame those pesky 'Dr. Speck' books that came out in the early 1970's - offering all sorts of 'wonderful' advice to young parents on how not to be a mean parent. (Such as 'never yell at a child as it can cause psycological upset) I know that this alone can't be blamed but it sure didn't help. Gentle sigh.

And while this may seem such a small thing, it appears that many parents honestly, and with the best of intentions, feel they should be a child's friend. And when I hear a parent complaining they don't know "what to do" with their child - and that child is still a pre-schooler - I think 'Wait until your child is a teenager and you'll be getting what you' deserve, sadly"). We shouldn't be our child's friend, they have lots of other ones the same height as them to fullfill that need.

At the risk of having others scream that it's unfair punishment, I've always felt that little ones have a diaper for two reasons. One the obvious reason and the other to give it a swat on occassion while the child is truly in danger. (An example of this was while shopping with one of our girls and her little one and the little one refused to stay by our side and in fact, attempted to run out the door into traffic. I swatted his little bottom once and spoke very firmly 'No!" several times (he was nearly two at the time) -one of the sale's ladies had a hissy-fit and I was stunned at her reaction. Better the child run into traffic than be taught it was a serious no-no never to be repeated?! Geesh.

And how hard can it be to teach even a very small child that if you whine or ask for something, you get nothing. 'Cause and effect'. Parenting isn't easy - but nor should it be.

Not sure when society as a whole - and the Court system - decided that we must not ruffle feathers and people guilty of horrible crimes often get a 'slap on the wrist'. But since we can't change the world, surely we can change how some of us raise our children - and take responsiblity if they are little beasts?
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#5 athelos

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 06:50 PM

This all depends on the parenting really and not so much on the kids. For example, when those children had first started to complain, etc and the parents had firmly said "NO!" and ignored any more protests I would bet my savings (about 50 :flowers: ) that the child would eventually learn they cannot get what they want using that method. They would then grow into teenagers and past this with these lessons firmly in place. If the child had been bought up with the parent buying whatever s/he wants then they would have learnt that this is a way they can get what they want and grow up with this lesson in place....(does that make sense? I found that hard to explain what I was thinking :thumbsup: ).

Cowsgonemad: You say your dad worked to get the things he wanted. Now ,honestly, can you say if his whole childhood had been different (meaning he was spoilt basically, got what he want when he wanted) would he have done that?

The kids cant really be blamed. Its the parents that mould their children.

As for the smacking (thats spanking to you americans if you didnt know :trumpet: ) part. I am totally for this. It is not mean or cruel or wrong to disipline your child. That goes for most things not just the serious stuff. I'll explain. I dont know if anyone has watched it but there is a programme over here called super nanny. I remember one episode the kid was making a HUGE fuss over nothing. The nanny told him off again and again. Eventually she put him in a corner and told him to stay there...He didnt. This kid was getting so much attention, which is what he wanted. Now it may not seem as serious a problem as MaraM said about the road, but if she had given him a quick slap on the backside the whole thing could have been avioded.
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#6 need TOS

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 07:11 PM

I think I have to agree. It is the parenting that does shape everyone. I work hard for all the things that I want. My parents have never given me nothing if I whinned about it (except for the belt). I think that discipline needs to be harder. Many people will go out in left and expect to get what they want then learn the hard way that that is not how the world works. I have it pretty good, I got a house, food , and clothes. (Plus video games.) My computers I have bought/built my self with my own money. I think that it is insane that people absoultley object to smacking their child as a dicipline. I do not see it as child abuse but as teaching them a lesson. When I was younger about 7-8 years ago I learned don't argue or you get the belt. My friends always say thats abuse but iit isn't. If I did not learn that lesson then I would proborably be spoiled and not enjoy the things I work for.

Also alot of teens here atleast do not have chores because their parents think that it is evil for a kid to work yet I have alot of chores and don't complain because my parents are at work trying to keep a house and a family of five together, I can do my part.

-Steve
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#7 locally pwned

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 07:35 PM

Interesting topic, though it covers many issues.

On discipline: can you not get a message across to a child without violence? That seems to be the issue here. I don't have children yet, so I won't claim to know a lot about the topic, but it seems to me that choosing not to use violence doesn't equate to weakness as a parent.

The reason I believe this is what I learned from my father about his childhood. He explained that when he got in trouble at school, the teacher would beat him with a belt; when he got home, is father, without a word, would take him outside and whip him with a hickory stick. Guess what this violence taught him: how to be more careful about getting caught.

The problem is, there was no attempt on the part of the adults to reason with the child. If you don't make the child understand what he/she did wrong, how can he/she learn? This doesn't mean bending backward or trying to appease. It just means that fortitude doesn't require violence.

In the end, what my father learned was that he didn't want to raise his kids like his father did; I believe I am a better person for it.

I will note, however, that MaraM makes a good point that a mild "swat" simply meant to get a kid's attention is certainly different than the type of abuse I am talking about. The trouble is, when violence is considered a standard parenting practice, ie "spare the rod, spoil the child," it becomes difficult to draw the line between correction and flat-out abuse.


As for society on the whole: no, I don't think things are worse than they have been. But it's a mistake to assume we have it all "figured out."

We don't have any idea how bad things have been in the past. I find this ironic; a sort of "generational amnesia." Once a generation or two has lived without a specific struggle or obstacle, we forget that it ever existed in the first place.

I am sure I have repeated this list many times, but here we go again: let's go back to the days of constant violent racism before the civil rights movement. Life seems pretty harsh and unfair. Back farther: Great Depression, two Great Wars...talk about sacrifice, difficulty, and want. Let's go back a bit further, when women couldn't vote and children were considered cheap labor. Yikes. Extreme poverty, horrific working conditions, zero opportunity for the poor. Back a bit more, slavery: human beings...owning other human beings. Back even deeper in history: inquisition, crusades, Black Plague kills half of Europe's population, ect ect ect.

You get the picture.

Swearing words on TV, the "Christmas vs. Winter Vacation" debate, and "cell phone kids" who don't want to work 20 hours a week suddenly don't seem so "scary" anymore.

Not to say that there aren't inherent problems with our society. I just think it's important to take history into perspective as we move forward in defining, understanding, and trying to solve these problems.
"The whole of science is nothing more than a refinement of everyday thinking." - Albert Einstein

"The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine

"If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands." - Douglas Adams

#8 need TOS

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 07:48 PM

Interesting topic, though it covers many issues.

On discipline: can you not get a message across to a child without violence? That seems to be the issue here. I don't have children yet, so I won't claim to know a lot about the topic, but it seems to me that choosing not to use violence doesn't equate to weakness as a parent.

The reason I believe this is what I learned from my father about his childhood. He explained that when he got in trouble at school, the teacher would beat him with a belt; when he got home, is father, without a word, would take him outside and whip him with a hickory stick. Guess what this violence taught him: how to be more careful about getting caught.

The problem is, there was no attempt on the part of the adults to reason with the child. If you don't make the child understand what he/she did wrong, how can he/she learn? This doesn't mean bending backward or trying to appease. It just means that fortitude doesn't require violence.

In the end, what my father learned was that he didn't want to raise his kids like his father did; I believe I am a better person for it.

I will note, however, that MaraM makes a good point that a mild "swat" simply meant to get a kid's attention is certainly different than the type of abuse I am talking about. The trouble is, when violence is considered a standard parenting practice, ie "spare the rod, spoil the child," it becomes difficult to draw the line between correction and flat-out abuse.


As for society on the whole: no, I don't think things are worse than they have been. But it's a mistake to assume we have it all "figured out."

We don't have any idea how bad things have been in the past. I find this ironic; a sort of "generational amnesia." Once a generation or two has lived without a specific struggle or obstacle, we forget that it ever existed in the first place.

I am sure I have repeated this list many times, but here we go again: let's go back to the days of constant violent racism before the civil rights movement. Life seems pretty harsh and unfair. Back farther: Great Depression, two Great Wars...talk about sacrifice, difficulty, and want. Let's go back a bit further, when women couldn't vote and children were considered cheap labor. Yikes. Extreme poverty, horrific working conditions, zero opportunity for the poor. Back a bit more, slavery: human beings...owning other human beings. Back even deeper in history: inquisition, crusades, Black Plague kills half of Europe's population, ect ect ect.

You get the picture.

Swearing words on TV, the "Christmas vs. Winter Vacation" debate, and "cell phone kids" who don't want to work 20 hours a week suddenly don't seem so "scary" anymore.

Not to say that there aren't inherent problems with our society. I just think it's important to take history into perspective as we move forward in defining, understanding, and trying to solve these problems.


I can see what you mean about making them understand, yet if you are too easy on them then it is not effective to tell them you could have been hurt. You can not just sit there and let your kid do things that would hurt them and just say its ok just don't do it again because if you just tell them not to do something then they want to do it again just because you said not to do it. If you smack them a little then they will find out and learn not to do it again, teaching them to do as you say.

I am not sure what you mean about people forgetting things like that only because I am 15. My grandpa and grandma never forgot what it was like to live through the depression have their fathers killed in WWII and then have my grandpa sent to Vietnam. They never take anything for granted. They believe and I believe to that if a kid does something wrong then they should be taught not to do it again by the use of smacking and other forms of punishment. I definitley do not agree with abuse though there is a difference from smacking and abuse.

Yes it is important to take history into the question but back in the days people were still more well behaved then they are today. There are many who look at teenagers as all bad yet when they get to know them they find out that we are not all like the bad ones.

-Steve

P.S. I just thought it would be an interesting subject to talk about seeing as it affects modern day life more than anything. :thumbsup:
Forgiveness is forgetting about a past that could have been

#9 DSTM

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 08:16 PM

I have seen both ends of the spectrum.From the 40's where it was in my case,straight out child abuse.
The excuse given "Spare the rod and spoil the Child"to absolutely no control over Children whatsoever.
I believe we have a lost Generation on our hands.Middle of the road thinking,makes more common sense to me.Why do Children behave the way they do today? "Because they can".Think about it.















#10 need TOS

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 08:40 PM

I'm guessing you mean that they can because their parents allow it?

-Steve
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#11 DSTM

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 09:32 PM

I'm guessing you mean that they can because their parents allow it?

-Steve

Exactly.Children are smarter than you think.They know what buttons to press to get the desired reward.
Often,they are smarter than the Parents.If Parents were more strict,and regained Dominance,they wouldn't have so many problems raising their Children.When a child realises that they aren't going to win the encounter,they tend to give up and conform.IMHO.Worked with raising my children.
Some Parents haven't got a clue how to use Psyshology,and as MaraM said,A tap on the bottom or wrist,never hurt in the course of raising kids,and I totally agree.















#12 need TOS

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 09:38 PM

Yes some kids do know how to push their parents buttons. What the parent needs to remember is that they are the boss and take some action so that thier child does not end up acting like they can get away with anything that they want. They will be surprised to find them selfes on the street wondering why no one will give them what they want.

-Steve
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#13 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 10:55 PM

Cowsgonemad: You say your dad worked to get the things he wanted. Now ,honestly, can you say if his whole childhood had been different (meaning he was spoilt basically, got what he want when he wanted) would he have done that?


You wouldnt need to buy something you already had now would you?

Well I dont know. What I am saying is even parents with money should not give their kids CARS or the such without them showing they can work for it.

Sitting and watching tv all day after school is NOT good enough for a car.

I think I see what you are saying. It goes back to the parents.

#14 MaraM

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 02:49 AM

Yes, I do agree. "Because they can" really does say a lot about our society. Not just about kids but for all of us.

Yes, it starts with the parents and there is a huge difference between being a parent and having this huge urge to be your child's friend and have them like you. In reality, there are many times when they shouldn't like us - if we're doing our job right. Gentle smile.

And children, no matter how small, are not stupid. They are simply shorter and less experienced than we are but to ever assume they are too stupid to realize what we, their parents, really truly believe in and are actually like, would be making a huge mistake.

Parents often seem to get furious if their child is caught telling a lie - yet many parents constantly tell lies in front of their kids. (Mind you, sorting out 'lies' from 'gentle fibs' when explaining why your little one should not ask the neighbor lady why is she so fat or why when someone says, at dinner, how do you like the roast, they shouldn't say "It's dry and stringy, Auntie" - aah, no easy feat! Eep!).

Don't want a child to cheat or steal - it helps to not brag at the dinner table how daddy or mommy 'borrowed' building supplies from a construction site on the way home from working late.

Teaching responsiblity can be as easy as if a child breaks the neighbour's window with a ball, parents go with the child to apologise and to pay for the damage - and then child and parent work out what percentage of their allowance will be paid towards the 'replacement costs' that daddy or mommy have already taken care of for the neighbour.

(Find it hard to understand but apparently in many area if a minor does public property damage, etc, the parents aren't held financially responsible in the Court system. Even harder to understand why it would even have to reach the court system - another gentle sigh).

But I must say that I will never, ever understand a parent who uses cruelty - be it a 'canning' or a 'belt' or general beating. And I suspect many a parent who has said, just before whalloping a child, "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" has just told one of the biggest lies ever to a child - and they know it.
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#15 Wildabeast

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 06:28 AM

There is a line between disipline(not sure of spelling) and abuse, it's easy to cross over but it's not a thin line either. Kids need disapline, without it, like DSTM said, they are smart and play you for it. I know a family who is afraid to spank the daughter because she said she would call the police and claim child abuse. The sad part is the police would probably take her side. And this kid needs a spanking. Her grandpa believes in disapline with love, which means the girl gets what she wants if she makes a big enough scene and that philosophy rubbed off on the mother.... :thumbsup:
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