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Military Might And Threats To World Peace.


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#1 DSTM

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Posted 27 January 2007 - 05:13 AM

Watched a documentary about China's new Military Capabilities and watched their new fighter planes and Submarines in action,and they say also, they can disable every satelite in low orbit in hours, including all of the US satelities.To me I think they could be a real threat to World peace.They say they have measures in place to turn Defence into Offence in hours if need be.Link to major Countries Military Stats.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/country_det...sp?country_id=4

What type of attack do you fear most, should an attack occur?
Are you happy with the defences your Government have in place, to protect you from any type of attack?
A Military Invasion.
Biological Attack.
Chemical Attack.
Your Thoughts.

Edited by DSTM, 27 January 2007 - 06:27 AM.















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#2 MaraM

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Posted 27 January 2007 - 02:03 PM

Oh dear, DSTM - your post is surely timely for me personally. Our oldest grandson's friends apparently saw a program similar to the one you watched and now, at 9 years of age, they are all sure they are going to die before they get to grow up. Think we've abated most of his fears by explaining it's not the Chinese people themselves that are the threat, rather it's, as in most Countries, the leaders that all deserve a good time-out!

For myself, all the threats throw terror into my heart but it's biological warfare that strikes me as being the hardest to protect against - and cope with, at least mentally. (I think of it as especially 'sneaky and underhanded', somehow).

And as to protection from any of the attacks you listed, hmmm. Unless I'm mistaken, we literally would be impossible to defend, particularly because our Country is so vast physically and with, in comparison, a low population, Added to that is the problem of having enough planes, ships, subs or other defensive means to protect ourselves (as per the link you provided, DSTM, and the stats on our military power).

As much as it pains me to say this - and I hope someone will correct me - my beautiful Country of Canada would likely ceases to exist as we know it. Scary thought indeed.

And as to our literal neighbour, the United States, whether they were attacked and we weren't, they are our neighbours and friends and iit would be as if we had been attacked directly.

Good topic, DSTM - scary but a possible reality in our existing world!
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#3 need TOS

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Posted 27 January 2007 - 03:45 PM

I guess China does more than take over the production of goods huh? Well I would consider the chinese more of a threat but even if they are we couldn't do nothing until they did for one reason, we would be the agressors and have the UN against us (us=USA) As for Canada that would suck if it wasn't there (beautiful country).

I think they are all equally bad because they will all kill, so I don't fear any one more than the other.

I agree MaraM it isn't the chinese but the gov't leaders. (Dang communists)

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#4 Klinkaroo

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Posted 27 January 2007 - 08:03 PM

My greatest fear would probably be biological or chemical warfare because they cause widespread deaths and would be very difficult to defend from. An advancing army with guns and missiles and the such I would think would be easier to defend and could also limit civilian casualties.

I love my Country called CANADA and I would hate to lose it. I am actually enrolled in the reserve force and am planning to go full time regular force. We do have a military that I think could be capable of defending ourselves somewhat but I do not know against everyone. If example the United States we're to turn against us we are toast...

I think what China is doing is not a good idea. I also think what they did was really irresponsible. Space I think should belong to everyone equally and what they did is just made it very dangerous for everyone. All the debris now... and if they we're to destroy all the American and other countries satellites it would be a friggen mine field for all spacecraft and the ISS (International Space Station).

#5 locally pwned

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Posted 27 January 2007 - 08:39 PM

Well, in a traditional sense China would be able to produce a vast military force...huge population and vast resources. But in modern warfare, there's more important numbers than troops alone. So it's hard to judge a country's threat level based on the number of troops in its army. The days of judging the strength of a force by simply counting cannon and troops is long since over.

There is another thought to consider: it would appear that China is trying to elevate its image to a technologically advanced state. China is pushing its space program along too. Perhaps the military advances China has boasted of late are really to show "tech muscle" rather than to threaten the world.

But then, animosity between Western and Communist states still exists...so it's easy to assume the worst. Perhaps you're right, Klink...perhaps China's not doing a service to the world by brandishing new weapon systems. There's enough tension in the world as it is.

DSTM: I don't fear conventional invasion. Besides the enormous difficulties in such an act, logistically speaking, we live in a day where a strong modern economy produces far more wealth than could be gained by occupying another country "Risk style."

Not that conflicts aren't driven by natural resources anymore. There's always the "chess factor." To control a given area of resources is not just to profit from it, but to control who else does or doesn't profit from it.

As for bio/chemical attacks, I think that small terrorist organizations are more dangerous than states. Members of such an organization go unnoticed across boarders; a state can't hide.* Most totalitarian states want power, but they also want to survive...if such a state, for example, fired WMD's at a neighbor the entire world would retaliate...so such an attack wouldn't do anything for them. Again, no motivation.






*This is part of the folly in the invasion of Iraq. You can't fight terrorist organizations by dumping all your resources into occupying one country. By definition, such an organization is not attached to any one nation.
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#6 DSTM

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Posted 28 January 2007 - 12:22 AM

Another excellent post,Locally pwned and I agree with your views,but have a slightly different view on the last main parragraph you posted.Biological and Chemical Weapons can not only be used by small groups and terrorists.Chemical Warfare was used in WW11 with terrible results.Another case that show dictators will use these is Saddam Hussein against the Kurds in northern Iraq,so if this stuff is at their disposal, whose to say an advancing Army wouldn't use it.To see people lying on the ground with horrific burns for example,and dying a slow death is disturbing to me.
Marshall Brain has an excellent Web Page about what sort of chemicals are used in Warfare and how much it takes to kill you.With one for eg,1billionith of a gram will kill you.Scary.
Heres the link.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/biochem-war.htm

Personally,I'd rather be shot,than die a slow agonising death,from burns and breathing difficulties,so Biological and Chemical Weapons are the most feared by me anyway.Also for example the US was attacked without warning,you couldn't produce 300million Chemical Suits and Gas Masks to outfit the entire population in a few days.At least if it's Military,you may have more of a chance.Anything which affects the air that I breathe,or the water I drink worries me.

As far as Australian Defences go,as we have too large an area to defend,too little defences,too small a population,we are sitting ducks for any large country to take us any time they choose.By the time our friends could rally their Military might,it would be all but over.IMO.

China for example with their huge population,and us with little would see Australia as a worthwhile proposition to seize one day,I would imagine.I would rather let them in now,under a controlled Immigration program,and let them breed like Rabbits rather than have them one day kill off half of us in a surprise invasion,and still take our country.I fear that with their Military might,we could be taken in less than 24 hrs.
Not saying it will happen,it could happen.















#7 HitSquad

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Posted 28 January 2007 - 06:21 AM

locally pwned:

Perhaps the military advances China has boasted of late are really to show "tech muscle" rather than to threaten the world.

That's really all it is. It's nothing a few other countries aren't already capable of. With North Korea being China's neighbor and friend and also part of Bush's "axis of evil", perhaps they are trying to send a message.
In any case, I'm not impressed.

MaraM:

And as to our literal neighbour, the United States, whether they were attacked and we weren't, they are our neighbours and friends and iit would be as if we had been attacked directly.


The opposite is true as well.
Any attack on Canada would be viewed by the U.S. as an attack, or prelude to an attack, on the U.S.
We simply could not allow that to happen and would defend her as we would any part of our own soil.

A ground invasion of the U.S. is simply not militarily possible.
Chemical, biological or even nuclear attacks would result in equal if not greater retaliation by the U.S. on any country that was crazy enough to try it. I'm sure we will see terrorists organizations sucessfully pull off one of these types of attacks on american soil in the future.

The only way to bring down the U.S is to economicly destroy her. A feat that every country in the world, and even terrorists organizations know would be possible.

Edited by HitSquad, 28 January 2007 - 06:32 AM.


#8 rsd79

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 02:45 AM

My biggest fear would be a biological attack because viruses do not discriminate. They can spread easily to countries that are not directly involved in the conflict, long-term and short-term.

I am satisfied by Canada's foreign policy and military. Majority of the time we put diplomatic efforts ahead of aggression.

China is not the problem, nor is Chemical, Bioligical, and military weapons. The real problem is Nuclear weapons, where the biggest criminals are USA and Russia. Here are some quotes from an article I found.

"The current war in Iraq is costing the people of Chicago $3 million every day. For that $3 million, they could hire 65,000 teachers," said Roche. "The $200 million the people of Chicago spend every year on nuclear weapons could provide full health care for every single one of them."

"More than $12 trillion has been spent globally on the development and maintenance of nuclear weapons, a "terrible misallocation of the resources of the world," said Roche."

"Roche contends that nuclear weapons and human security cannot co-exist. While much international attention has been focused on stopping Iran and North Korea from acquiring nuclear weapons, Roche said that it's the 96 per cent of nuclear arms in the hands of the U.S. and Russia that are the real "volcano, that's ready to erupt."

In fact, said Roche, "I can say very clearly that it's the policies of George W. Bush that have set back the quest for nuclear disarmament that we saw peak in the year 2000."

Here is the link to the full article: Nuclear weapons rob from the poor.
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#9 jedi

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 04:46 AM

What type of attack do you fear most, should an attack occur?
Are you happy with the defences your Government have in place, to protect you from any type of attack?
A Military Invasion.
Biological Attack.
Chemical Attack.
Your Thoughts.


The one I fear, and the only one I feel I'd ever realistically have to face, is not listed above. That is the lone bomber, the guy with the rucksack full of home-made explosive, the one who may be sitting on the tube, or on the bus, alongside me. I'm from the UK, BTW.

As for a military invasion, no-one's managed that successfully here since 1066, and these days we get on a lot better with the French!
As for my Government, I'm happy we have one of the best armed forces in the world for a country our size, however, I have to agree to some extent with rsd79 on the nukes issue, they are about to spend billions on replacing the Trident submarine-lauched missile system, money which could be far better spent on the people of this country, IMO.

Edited by jedi, 02 February 2007 - 04:47 AM.


#10 Walkman

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 05:22 AM

We all need to know one thing for sure, and that is:
No#1. The USA is convinced that they are the worlds police.
No#2. Just about every war I can remember, the USA has been involved in it, even the Nazi war, in which the USA funded Hitler.
No#3. The USA was the 1st country in the world to use Nuclear Weapons of Mass Destruction. And they used it to wipe out many people, and those Chinese people have every right to arm themselves against another cowardice attack that the US perpetrated on Hiroshima.

I have read and saw documentaries of what the US done to those people. It was a plain downright cowardly action by the USA. China, as of this day, still suffers from deformed children being born because of when the US dropped that bomb over there.

The Chinese government said that they are afraid of the USA, and they want to be protected by any means from the USA's aggression and senseless attacks on innocent people. They have every GOD-given right to arm and protect themselves the best way possible. And that means, biological, chemical, nuclear, and whatever else is at their disposal.

Do any of you really think that the USA doesn't have weapons of mass destruction? They always have, and as far as they're concerned, they always will. They just want everyone to disarm themselves, so that way it'll be easier to go and invade other countries. That's all that disarming of nuclear weapons is all about.

I'd bet right now, that many of you will say "Nooo, the USA doesn't have any weapons of mass destruction". Do the USA have inspectors searching our facilities?.. Nope... And what about all of the secret locations here in the USA, that are now up to at least 800 underground facilities across the USA?

A far as which form of attack I would fear the most?.. Neither one of them. I know I'm going to die one day, so I'm not afraid at all. What attack we all should be scared of? The wrath of GOD, or whatever you believe in. That's what we all should be afraid of... Being left behind when that day come. We are living in the last days, whether any of you accept it or not. I have a grandson, not even 1yr yet, and I honestly don't think he'll live to be grown, especially by the rate at which the world is evolving more into.

If you have any belief in a higher being, then it should be easier for you to understand that we are now in The End Game/The Final Chapter of Life as we all know it.

My book told me that there will be rumors of wars, and there were rumors of wars already.
My book told me that there will be wars, and there have been plenty of wars already.
My book told me that nations will go against nations, and nations have gone against nations already.
My book told me that Israel will be wiped from the earth and it shall be no more. The USA can't help them. It's been written, and as you can see, the determined ones are not going to stop, until it's done.

The world will be divided, and everyone will be displaced. That's why none of this world war stuff surprises me.

But all in all, our country has been the biggest terrorist country I've ever known in my life. It's sad, but definitely true. I just wish alot of you really get some time to do some real research on the USA and how things came into inception, you'll know that we are the world's biggest threat,... and we're going to be doomed if multi countries decide that they aren't going to take our aggression any longer.

Fun Fact:
The United Nations was created and incepted by....... The USA.... I studied on the inception of them, and it was a slick scheme. Basically, to take control over the world, country at a time, they put together leaders from all over, and basically used leader from the other countries to interfere with our US policies. That's why they were created... Since the founding fathers have set down laws that can not be broken by the USA government, they used outsiders to break the laws for them..... since they are a United Nations organization, they aren't bound by the USA policies. Does that make sense to you? It does to me. Do your research. I've done mine on the UN, and I know the facts about them. And technically, the UN can't change nor have any effect on our policies, but they do....... also with the help from another USA made organization........ Council on Foreign Relations... Those are the ones that make sure the real news don't get delivered to you. Those are the true owners of every single mainstream media in the USA, and many other parts of the world. That's why it would make you alot more informed on the real deal if you got your real news from the Internet.

But on an ending note:
We've already put ourselves in this situation, and I know that we're so far in, there is no need in turning back, because they're gonna come at us with everything they have. So if you fear a particular aspect of a war, suck all in, because you're gonna most likely get a taste of all of it.

And as far as a ground military attack on our soil?.... Oh yeah,, I can see that happening. Just think about on 9/11/2001. NORAD and our defenses could protect us from a few planes... not one of them. Just image when they come in squads of squads, submarines, and all other means of touching ground. The reason I believe it's more than likely to happen is because, when we do get attacked, it's going to be more than one country coming at us at one time.

Have any of you heard of the B.R.I.C. Alliance? It's an alliance that countries have already formed against attacks to them, and partnered up alliances to help protect each other.

Guess who wasn't included into the BRIC Alliance? The USA....
Guess who the BRIC Alliance is? Brazil, Russia, India, China.

I guess you all never heard that by the end of 2005, in India, over 1,000 farmers committed suicide because of bad wheat seeds that the USA has sold them. And other people were dying too. Guess where the Indians got the Wheat seeds from? You guessed it... The Monsantos Corporation. Again.... do some research. you'll see. And the information is out there just waiting for you too. Monsantos is the makers of Agent Orange, and other deadly poisons that have killed countless people... And last that I heard, they've bought out almost every seed company in the USA.... Why?... the paln is stop people from farming, going their own foods, so we can buy the genetically modified foods from them, and eventually die from it.

War?.... we're at war with ourselves, but we're eager to go to war with other countries, and many of them defenseless against us, and still, we're too scared to stand up for our own rights that are being taken away from us by a small group of elite people.

#11 locally pwned

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 06:58 AM

Walkman, a few comments:

No#2. Just about every war I can remember, the USA has been involved in it, even the Nazi war, in which the USA funded Hitler.


Not so sure about that. It is possible that US companies did business in Germany, but I doubt that the US government was simultaneously funding and arming the British and Germany at the same time.

In fact, remember the Hindenburg? It was filled with hydrogen...because one of the largest producers of helium, the US, wouldn't sell it to them.

No#3. The USA was the 1st country in the world to use Nuclear Weapons of Mass Destruction. And they used it to wipe out many people, and those Chinese people have every right to arm themselves against another cowardice attack that the US perpetrated on Hiroshima.

I have read and saw documentaries of what the US done to those people. It was a plain downright cowardly action by the USA. China, as of this day, still suffers from deformed children being born because of when the US dropped that bomb over there.


The two atom bombs were dropped in Japan, not China. China was a cobelligerent of the US; Japan invaded China's Manchurian province early in the war.

They have every GOD-given right to arm and protect themselves the best way possible. And that means, biological, chemical, nuclear, and whatever else is at their disposal.



I would argue that no country has the "right" to use any such weapon on any other.

Do any of you really think that the USA doesn't have weapons of mass destruction? They always have, and as far as they're concerned, they always will. They just want everyone to disarm themselves, so that way it'll be easier to go and invade other countries. That's all that disarming of nuclear weapons is all about.



I can't imagine anyone would claim that the US doesn't have the largest stockpile of nuclear weapons on the face of the planet.

As for invading other countries...well, perhaps if we don't put crazies in office anymore, we can go back to not invading other countries. :thumbsup:

As for the UN, I can see from your opinions why you'd assume sinister motivations...but at least one function of the organization was to prevent another world war. It is interesting that your arguments against the UN revolve around the US using it to "control the world." Often arguments against the UN are the other way round; many claim that the US is allowing other countries to dictate to us.

I'd like to think the UN, or an oranization like it, could be a true platform for international cooperation...
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#12 Walkman

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 08:13 AM

To locally pwned,

You're right, it was Japan. Not sure why I said China. But they too are still suffering from that bomb dropped on Japan.

As far as funding the war for Hitler, banking institutions will support both sides, even if there were more than 2 parties involved.

The UN would have been a great idea to help keep world peace, but there is too much corruption in it too. And it's not just the US doing all the dirt, it's many country leaders involved.

I'm sure you've all heard that there is a plan to exterminate 80% of the worlds population. The exact figure is 80% of the world. Many countries are doing it now, slowly but surely. The problem seems to be too many people on earth right now. But that's the plan, on the global scale. So, imagine that..... the war we think about is nothing compared what the real agenda is about. I would imagine also, that's why there are so many underground facilities here in the USA... my guess is to shelter the elite and their families, amongst other agendas of the use of that many facilities. I'd bet we can find alot of missing people in many of those facilities.

But all we can do is just be prepared to expect the worst to happen. It's all in due time.

#13 DSTM

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 09:03 AM

I have enjoyed reading everybody's opinion,and we can only hope another World War is prevented with Diplomacy.I never mentioned Nuclear Warfare,because it would most likey be the last War we ever fought.It would wipe out most of civilisation as we know it.I am of the opinion no Country in their right mind would even think of dropping many Nuclear Bombs on each other.There would be no one left to rebuild the Countries.
I would still give China and the other large Military Powers a lot of respect,and not become too complacent.If they joined forces,any country would have next to no chance of preventing a multi pronged invasion.To me just too many thousands of miles of coastline to protect.And they would fight the war the way they feel they have the best chance of Victory.Pray it never happens,but it could.

Footnote.I remember reading somewhere years ago that the last Great War will be fought in the Middle East,or there abouts.Has anybody read similar?

Edited by DSTM, 02 February 2007 - 09:28 AM.















#14 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 12:44 PM

I hope nobody ever uses atomic bombs again. But america has these bombs that are almost as strong as a atomic bomb but not quite. They are huge and can take out miles of things.

I think all atomics should be disabled because of what they cause AFTER they are set off and for year and years to come.

#15 Constantine

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Posted 02 February 2007 - 06:19 PM

I would just like to add one point to this debate.

What China is doing now concerning the ability to take out all satellites is no worse than what America was proposing with its Star Wars program; that is the ability to take out any missile or satellite.

Both programs would dramatically alter the balance of power. At the moment all sides are wary of the others because of their ability to retaliate with WMD's. If one side felt that they would not be able to retaliate effectively, that would encourage them to strike first.

The USA will never surrender its WMD's because it is no match for China in a conventional war. The huge population of China means they could easily afford to lose 20 men for each American and still prevail. Technology alone keeps America pre eminent in warfare. But that edge is slowly vanishing.

Finally, I don't know why everyone fears China. Historically, China has never had an expansionist policy. It is the west that constantly tries to expand it's sphere of influence. It is the west that has invaded and conquered more countries than I can remember, not China. Name one or two countries that China has invaded in the last century.

Now name some countries that America, England, Germany have invaded. It adds up to dozens.

Can you blame China for being worried?
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