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Consumer Privacy Policy


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#1 Walkman

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 01:26 AM

This thread/post is a follow-up to a post TMacK made concerning the ViewPoint Media Player he discovered on his computer. By all means, he has every right to be concerned, and if not, upset to discover that a program has been secretly installed on his computer.

While he's not the only one this type of secrecy happens to, TMacK just happened to discover it, and hopefully took action.

Before I get into the Consumer Privacy Policy, it's a wise thing to know that you can always email/contact those companies (be nice to them) and let them know your disgust of how they secretly installed, as far as you're concerned, spyware, adware, trojans, viruses, malware, etc.. on your computer. You can let them know that you are going to boycott their product(s), and you're going to make a public announcement of their actions.

Software companies aren't off the hook. They distribute their software and they know exactly what's in them, and they don't tell you. I guess it's for our own good that we don't need to know what gets installed on our computers, and let alone, these programs transmit back to the Internet. They are transmitting to the Internet for one reason or another. And most likely it's to:

a. report on what you're doing on your computer
b. report what programs you have on your computer
c. report what content you have on your computer
d. report your personal and private information that's on your computer.

There may be more agendas, but those are the main ones that I know of.

Software companies may blame the p2p, sharing and all of the other cop-outs as to why they lose money on their software, but the truth is that people don't want to pay for software with the companies that practices unethical marketing. It's bad enough that after you pay for the over-bloated software, with the added spyware and such, they have the nerve to inform you that there is a newer version out,.. and depending on the software, you have to pay for it too. Another trick and a gimmick.... and as far as I'm concerned, unethical and fraudulent.

But along with all of the above, consumers have a right to their privacy, and the software owners/vendors do not. They have no right to our privacy at all, no matter how you pick it apart. It's bad enough they're not honest enough to inform us in their so-called privacy policy that other software is going to be installed on our computers. And if they do happen to tell us, they're not truthful as to the nature of the added program being installed.

But below is a privacy statement that software vendors/distributors/creators need to be aware of.

Consumer Privacy Policy:

1. I do not want any type of crap on my computer unless I specifically OK it.
2. I do not want anything installed without my permission.
3. I don't want some poorly programmed piece of crap crashing my computer, changing my bookmarks and homepage, and making itself part of the operating system so I can't delete it without instructions from the internet.
4. I do not want programs that record what I am doing.
5. I don't want programs accessing the internet at random intervals to send data to its home servers.
6. I don't care if "At no point is the CUID connected to a user's name, email address, or other personal contact information".
7. I don't freaking believe what is written in your privacy policy (which I didn't even get a chance to read since it installed without my knowledge), nor do I trust your abilities to safeguard my personal data even if you are telling the truth.

When can you install something on my computer?
If you get within arms length distance of my computer and can install it before I turn off your lights, then I will allow it. Other than that, you're not permitted to install anything on my computer without me ok'ing it.


I've sent the above to 2 companies awhile back when I found out who was responsible for installing 2 programs, which had nothing to do with the original programs I installed.

It's just like if you installed a burner software, for instance, and then when you look on your desktop, you have an icon for a poker web site. Secret crap like that will piss anyone off. But they do it.

Also, if you find out the company that secretly installs anything on your computer, it's very wise to let them know that you've found out it was them, and you're going to let others know. I have no problem at all letting a company know that I'll never buy or use their software again if they betray me like that.

Words of the wise:
9. Don't leave your personal information on your computer
10. Always read the privacy policy (with a grain of salt)
11. Use a program that can monitor anything you install on your computer
12. Use a program that can monitor your registry (very important step) normally, your problem starts there
13. Use a program to block ip's from connecting to your computer
14. Always do a manual update on anything. NEVER let your computer automatically update anything. And I mean ANYTHING. It's just as easy and safe to click a button to do a manual update.
15. When uninstalling programs, check the install logs, and manually go to each folder and verify files and folders are gone. There are programs that you can uninstall, but they leave other programs that still try to communicate back to the Internet. Trust me on that. I've had them before. (Trust, but verify - The Late Ronald Reagan)

Hopefully all of you will continue to take the time and know what is on your computer, and if you're not sure what something is, the search engines can be your best friend. I can honestly say that I use the search engines more than any Internet site I use.

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#2 Darthy

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 02:27 PM

Excuse me this dumb question Walkman:
What search engines?
Regards,
Darthy

Edited by Darthy, 15 January 2007 - 02:28 PM.

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Thanks John

#3 need TOS

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 02:33 PM

I agree tell the company if it installs something that you don't want. Like a program I bought a while back installed another program and if I removed the other then the program I wanted wouldn't work correctly. I think that companies should be required to list every program that will be installed on your system and what it does.

(That is why I code alot of my programs now)

-Steve

Forgiveness is forgetting about a past that could have been

#4 Walkman

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 04:33 PM

Excuse me this dumb question Walkman:
What search engines?
Regards,
Darthy

Darthy,

You're not asking a dumb question.

Honestly?.... I don't recommend any particular search engines anymore. And I don't use the word Google when people ask. I just say search engines. Just so you'll know, there are thousands of good search engines out there that give the same or equivalent results as Google does, but they're just not well known or very popular. But if you do use Google, I would recommend that you use an ip blocker, like PeerGuardian 2 to help you, or you can use (TOR/Privoxy, which are good tools that I'm still trying to learn them though).

Also, when using search engines, I've disabled the auto-fill, which fills in the words as you type. I don't trust them either. They monitor your ip address and what you've been searching for. Although alot of the tools to help you search on search engines may be convenient for you at the time, I don't rely on them. I pretend that they don't exist, which makes me believe that's another reason why I don't have to post HJT logs of my computer.

But, if you want to know which search engine I use,, it's mainly Google. I know I may sound hypocritical, but I have a unique way to block them from monitoring me, my ip address, and what I searched for. They may record what I searched for, but it won't link to my ip address.... and that's the main issue. And after my search results come up, I immediately block Google's ip address from connecting to me what-so-ever.

But try other search engines out there. Many of them are better than Google, in my opinion. If I didn't know what I know now, I would never use Google at all. There is always more than 1 way to skin a cat.

another reason why many of the other search engines are better than Google is the simple fact that they're not under scrutiny from the government, and at the same time, many of their results come from Google. So technically, why not just use the other search engines? I have a list of over 100,000 search engines in a database file, and many of them are using Google's engines to drive them.


To need TOS,
I feel you on that one. I had software that did the same thing you say. If you remove the culprit, the main program no longer works. Yep... it's happened to me.

And you're also right.... every-single company in the world that distributes software need to have a .txt file that not only tells what is getting installed on your computer, but it must also give an actual install log to show you exactly where the files will be installed along with the names of the files. They can easily do it, since they have to test the software anyway. So I see no reason at all why they can't include an actual install log that comes from THEIR computers. My only guess,,, many of them are hiding something that they don't want us to know about.

#5 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 10:35 PM

I let my windows update itself along with firefox and AVG but thats it. Trusted things only. When getting a new pc run a virus scan because sometimes those restore disks can have it on them.

#6 Darthy

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Posted 15 January 2007 - 11:01 PM

What have you to say about using an anonymizer software, Walkman?
These kind of softwares don't block our IP, I think they changed it, isn't it?
Another question, when you make the Log In to any Forums, like BC, and when you post some threads, even you use anonymizers or IP blockers you are identifiable, aren't you?
I think I'm even more suspicious than you.
That's why, here, I don't tell you what anonymizer software I use. It's not because BC, but because when I'm posting, I think I'm identifiable.
I beg you and BC to understand me.
Thanks for your previous reply.
Regards,
Darthy

Edited by Darthy, 15 January 2007 - 11:07 PM.

Εν οίδα οτι ουδέν οίδα - Socrates
Thanks John

#7 Walkman

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 12:17 AM

When I learned about TOR/Privoxy a few months ago, I knew that it's the closest anyone can get to being private while surfing the Internet.

I don't use any of those proxy servers, programs, hide ip software and such anymore. Doing my research, I found out that I may have been using a "trap service".... and that is .... a service setup by the law officials to trap you. Some hide ip/anonymizers are set up by law officials. People that use those types of services are being looked at more so now.... because the officials are convinced that any one that uses any of those software or services are hiding something. Although it's not the full truth, but people that use such proxy servers or such are really under a microscope, and they don't even know it.

If you use TOR/Privoxy... it's totally different. You're connected though multiple servers with each web page you visit. In other words, when you go to one site, it'll show an ip address, and when you go to another site, you'll be going through another ip address, and so on and so on, as long as you surf.

I've tested it myself. And it actually works. As you click on links, you are going through the TOR servers/network, which are made up of TOR servers from all over the world. Another way to understand it is like this... as you travel through the Internet, you don't even know what your ip address is going to be when you click on a link. Your isp don't know, and the sites you visit don't know where you came from, nor do they know where you went to. That's because your ip address changes as you go from link to link.

I have to admit it though, I'm still having difficulties using it because I have problems opening up some web pages, but I'm learning. It's the most amazing surfing, ip blocking, malware, spyware, logger blocking thing I've used so far on the internet.

I still use ip blocking software (PeerGuardian 2), but all of those other ones that hide your ip through softwares, and connects you through proxy servers, I don't use them anymore. They are obsolete.

Just go here: http://tor.eff.org/

Read up on it, download it, and use it.

Afterwards - bookmark these sites
http://www.cmyip.com
http://www.showmyip.com

Whenever you want, while running TOR/Privoxy, just click on those links and they will constantly show you as being on a different ip address. Again, I am still learning it, but I can tell you this much... if you use it, once you log on to the Internet, the only thing your isp will know is that you logged on, and maybe they'll know the 1st site you went to........ but after that, it's over for them. They can't track your activity what-so-ever while you're online.

Governmental officials are using TOR, and many, many, many other establishments are using it. Go to the TOR web site and read what it does, and how it operates. If you can understand the logic of it, you're closer to securing your online browsing to the best it could possibly be on the internet. I'm still amazed at how it does what it does.

As a matter of fact, with TOR, you can create a web server, post it online, and your web site will be untraceable. It's been hard for me to believe it myself, but I use it too, and it works better than anything I ever used in my life so far. Nothing comes close to having TOR. Many people use it for p2p.. (I don't), but as far as surfing, I don't think there is anything remotely close to it.... especially knowing that the government uses it themselves. And TOR is 100% FREE

Trust me on this... you may be getting by with using those anonymizer softwares, but you may be trapping yourself to people you don't want knocking on your door. I learned very quickly once I went to that site and learned about TOR.

As always... EVERYTHING has it's good and bad points. Just use it wisely and you'll be fine.

Keep in mind,, problems entering web sites may be due to the fact that not only does TOR change your ip address as you surf, it'll also change your ip address to an ip address of another country. It's very sleek in what it does. Learn it, use it, love it.

I understand how you feel, that's why I'm telling you what I'm telling you.

As far a BC is concerned.... I trust this site (very few sites get this privilege from me), .. I don't hide anything while I'm here, I just don't volunteer everything while I'm here. I'm not saying my guards are down, because they're not. But I've had at least 18/19 tears dealing with computers now, and I'm very aware of the things I never knew... and I am still learning everyday........ that's one reason why I come here daily (or close to it), and that's because I learn from here. BleepingComputer is very important to me. I wish I knew about this site when they 1st went live.

Ohhh,, before I forget to answer you.... yes, you're still identifiable when using ip blockers and anonymizers. Ip blockers are great to have though. Now,,, just add TOR, and you're good to go.

#8 Darthy

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 01:31 PM

Thanks for what you have said Walkman.
I already knew that CoDeen servers were not reliable.
You have to know that English is only my second language and that's why sometimes I cannot express very well what I want.
What I meant was the program I use is similar to TOR/Privoxy. I don't use any proxy servers too.
When I said "anonymizer software", I must really said "anonymizer program". Excuse me.
Thanks, also, for the two links you posted. I bookmark them already, they are cool.
As you know I must protect myself, because of my main interests, they are 911 hoax and Bilderberg Meetings.
When I surf those kind of links I feel that my PC is often under attack and I have to deffend myself.
For two times I had to format my disk and the most interesting thing is, the strongest attack that I suffered was after an automatic update of windows when appeared in my PC one such "Software Distribution Service" that blocked it completely.
One thing I learned there, was that I must disconnect all my automatic updates, what I did immediately.
Regards,
Darthy
Εν οίδα οτι ουδέν οίδα - Socrates
Thanks John

#9 Walkman

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 02:22 PM

Thanks for what you have said Walkman.
I already knew that CoDeen servers were not reliable.
You have to know that English is only my second language and that's why sometimes I cannot express very well what I want.
What I meant was the program I use is similar to TOR/Privoxy. I don't use any proxy servers too.
When I said "anonymizer software", I must really said "anonymizer program". Excuse me.
Thanks, also, for the two links you posted. I bookmark them already, they are cool.
As you know I must protect myself, because of my main interests, they are 911 hoax and Bilderberg Meetings.
When I surf those kind of links I feel that my PC is often under attack and I have to deffend myself.
For two times I had to format my disk and the most interesting thing is, the strongest attack that I suffered was after an automatic update of windows when appeared in my PC one such "Software Distribution Service" that blocked it completely.
One thing I learned there, was that I must disconnect all my automatic updates, what I did immediately.
Regards,
Darthy

As far as I'm concerned, you've just gotten wiser. Of all things, NEVER let your operating system update on it's own. People really don't understand the word "operating system"..... if you screw that up, nothing works. And I do mean nothing. But, it's debatable, because people feel that their operating system is what helps protect them. They're correct.... but....... they must protect the operating system. I'll NEVER in my life agree that allowing automatic updates of an operating system is helpful. NEVER... and anyone that does it, is just like a person asking for someone to come and attack them, because they don't even know what was installed on their computers while they were asleep, went out side, went on a trip, went to the bathroom..... and even while you're still working online working on your computer. It's very dangerous. And that may be why so many people have problems ALL OF A SUDDEN. Did you ever think about what you allowed to download on your computer?.... Nope?

Darthy, I'm glad you've taken those steps already. Just watch and see, and you're gonna have less problems with your computer.

#10 Darthy

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 09:39 PM

Big Brother doesn't like Net Anonymity Services.
Do you beleive it? Please see this:

Net Anonymity Service
Back-Doored
By Thomas C. Greene
The Register - UK

WASHINGTON -- The popular Java Anonymous Proxy (JAP), used to anonymise one's comings and goings across the Internet, has been back-doored by court order. The service is currently logging access attempts to a particular, and unnamed, Web site and reporting the IP addys of those who attempt to contact it to the German police.

We know this because the JAP operators immediately warned users that their IP traffic might be going straight to Big Brother, right? Wrong. After taking the service down for a few days with the explanation that the interruption was "due to a hardware failure", the operators then required users to install an "upgraded version" (ie. a back-doored version) of the app to continue using the service.

"As soon as our service works again, an obligatory update (version 00.02.001) [will be] needed by all users," the public was told. Not a word about Feds or back doors.

Fortunately, a nosey troublemaker had a look at the 'upgrade' and noticed some unusual business in it, such as:

"CAMsg::printMsg(LOG_INFO,"Loading Crime Detection Data....\n");" "CAMsg::printMsg(LOG_CRIT,"Crime detected - ID: %u - Content: \n%s\n",id,crimeBuff,payLen);"

and posted it to alt.2600.

Soon the JAP team replied to the thread, admitting that there is now a "crime detection function" in the system mandated by the courts. But they defended their decision:

"What was the alternative? Shutting down the service? The security apparatchiks would have appreciated that - anonymity in the Internet and especially AN.ON are a thorn in their side anyway."

Sorry, the Feds undoubtedly appreciated the JAP team's willingness to back-door the app while saying nothing about it a lot more than they would have appreciated seeing the service shut down with a warning that JAP can no longer fulfill its stated obligation to protect anonymity due to police interference.

Admittedly, the JAP team makes some good points in its apology. For one, they say they're fighting the court order but that they must comply with it until a decision is reached on their appeal.

Jap is a collaborative effort of Dresden University of Technology, Free University Berlin and the Independent Centre for Privacy Protection Schleswig-Holstein, Germany (ICPP). A press release from ICPP assures users that JAP is safe to use because access to only one Web site is currently being disclosed, and only under court-ordered monitoring.

But that's not the point. Disclosure is the point. The JAP Web site still claims that anonymity is sacrosanct: "No one, not anyone from outside, not any of the other users, not even the provider of the intermediary service can determine which connection belongs to which user."

This is obviously no longer true, if it ever was. And that's a serious problem, that element of doubt. Anonymity services can flourish only if users trust providers to be straight with them at all times. This in turn means that providers must be absolutely punctilious and obsessive about disclosing every exception to their assurances of anonymity. One doesn't build confidence by letting the Feds plug in to the network, legally or otherwise, and saying nothing about it.

Justifying it after the fact, as the JAP team did, simply isn't good enough.

Telling us that they only did it to help catch criminals isn't good enough either. Sure, no normal person is against catching criminals - the more the merrier, I say. But what's criminal is highly relative, always subject to popular perception and state doctrine. If we accept Germany's definition of criminal activity that trumps the natural right to anonymity and privacy, then we must accept North Korea's, China's and Saudi Arabia's. They have laws too, after all. The entire purpose of anonymity services is to sidestep state regulation of what's said and what's read on the basis of natural law.

The JAP Web site has a motto: "Anonymity is not a crime." It's a fine one, even a profound one. But it's also a palpably political one. The JAP project inserted itself, uncalled, into the turbulent confluence between natural law and state regulation, and signaled its allegiance to the former. It's tragic to see it bowing to the latter.

The Register

Anonymity Service

Edited by Darthy, 17 January 2007 - 09:40 PM.

Εν οίδα οτι ουδέν οίδα - Socrates
Thanks John

#11 Walkman

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 01:54 AM

That doesn't surprise me at all. i already mentioned how those services are being setup by the law officials to entrap people. Although TOR/Privoxy is a anonymity itself, it's on a totally different scale than any other service or software I've used and have done plenty of reading up on why you shouldn't use those services.

There are plenty of web sites out there that fully explains why you shouldn't indulge in those services, and the softwares that claim you'll be anonymous. Basically, all they're doing is providing to with an ip address that hasn't been properly setup, and the loophole has been exposed. Port scanning is what it's called in how they get the ip addresses,, well most of them. They scan the Internet for open ports, then they do other tests on them before they make them available. That's another reason why most anonymous services change the ips alot. And that's mainly because the loophole has been discovered by the legal server administrator from either looking at the server logs, or even getting complaints about their high bandwidth usage or something else. Then they close up the ports.

With TOR/Privoxy, you're channeling through ips that people volunteer to include. And the best part about it is that the ip addresses changes so much, no matter how they try to follow the trail, they still can't find out anything concrete to even accuse you.

With those other services and software, once you log on or use them, you're tied to that only ip address while you're online, and it can lead back to you. Another thing for people to consider is that mostly all of those services keep server logs, which, if needed, the police or such will know that you've been tied to that service. Remember this too... those other services know what pages you've been at. And all it takes is the confiscation of their servers/logs, and you're just as caught as they are. But TOR/Privoxy works 100% opposite from the traditional way.

I can show you some reports from different web sites that will scare you enough to not even want to use those services or softwares. I used the web based proxy servers and the software based proxy servers once before. But I've learned alot about how those proxy servers really work, and they're not something I'll use again. I'm finished with them.

And especially the ones that have you log in with a username and password... those are the worst of them all, and people pay for that too, defeating the purpose of being anonymous. Anytime you have to use usernames and passwords, you're being logged/monitored. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

The Internet is getting to the point where if you're being anonymous online, you're either doing something criminalistic, or you have something to hide, but that's not the case for most people. People are tired of their identities being stolen, tracked while surfing, monitoring every move you make, spam, spyware, malware, etc... buy being anonymous online can help reduce all of that, plus using some added protection.

#12 yano

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 10:38 PM

I agree about the automatic updates. Not every single patch Microsoft release is trust worthy. I shut off the automatic updates and use AutoPatcher by the Neowin forums. This way I can look over each critical patch and decide whether or not I should install it or not. Especially the recent non-critical patch about the Australian DST? I live in America, why would my clocks have to adjust to there DST?

#13 DSTM

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 12:05 AM

That doesn't surprise me at all. i already mentioned how those services are being setup by the law officials to entrap people. Although TOR/Privoxy is a anonymity itself, it's on a totally different scale than any other service or software I've used and have done plenty of reading up on why you shouldn't use those services.

There are plenty of web sites out there that fully explains why you shouldn't indulge in those services, and the softwares that claim you'll be anonymous. Basically, all they're doing is providing to with an ip address that hasn't been properly setup, and the loophole has been exposed. Port scanning is what it's called in how they get the ip addresses,, well most of them. They scan the Internet for open ports, then they do other tests on them before they make them available. That's another reason why most anonymous services change the ips alot. And that's mainly because the loophole has been discovered by the legal server administrator from either looking at the server logs, or even getting complaints about their high bandwidth usage or something else. Then they close up the ports.

With TOR/Privoxy, you're channeling through ips that people volunteer to include. And the best part about it is that the ip addresses changes so much, no matter how they try to follow the trail, they still can't find out anything concrete to even accuse you.

With those other services and software, once you log on or use them, you're tied to that only ip address while you're online, and it can lead back to you. Another thing for people to consider is that mostly all of those services keep server logs, which, if needed, the police or such will know that you've been tied to that service. Remember this too... those other services know what pages you've been at. And all it takes is the confiscation of their servers/logs, and you're just as caught as they are. But TOR/Privoxy works 100% opposite from the traditional way.

I can show you some reports from different web sites that will scare you enough to not even want to use those services or softwares. I used the web based proxy servers and the software based proxy servers once before. But I've learned alot about how those proxy servers really work, and they're not something I'll use again. I'm finished with them.

And especially the ones that have you log in with a username and password... those are the worst of them all, and people pay for that too, defeating the purpose of being anonymous. Anytime you have to use usernames and passwords, you're being logged/monitored. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

The Internet is getting to the point where if you're being anonymous online, you're either doing something criminalistic, or you have something to hide, but that's not the case for most people. People are tired of their identities being stolen, tracked while surfing, monitoring every move you make, spam, spyware, malware, etc... buy being anonymous online can help reduce all of that, plus using some added protection.

Walkman,regarding username,password and email addresses,This is a pre condition of a multitude of sites that require this information before you can even open their web page to get the information you are seeking.What is the alternative,if you don't want to give this information?No information.
The worst by far is if you want to download free office software.As soon as you hit the download button,a questionaire pops up,wanting to know all you company details.EG Company or Private,location,what sort of business,business address,Phone nos,Email and DX Details,How many staff,If company,is it public listed,the list goes on and on.When you hit the cancel button another questionaire pops up as why you cancelled.This is going too far.IMO.

Edited by DSTM, 22 January 2007 - 03:10 AM.


















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