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Defrag Not Complete


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#1 ToDrag

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 09:46 AM

I searched through the old posts for this one, I'm sure it's been discussed, but no find. What makes the defrag process leave the disk fragmented? I used three different defrag programs in the same day on a drive on a month-old Acer lap. 40 gig drive, I used the XP defrag, diskeeper lite and auslogics and still have about 16% fragmentation. I have done an awful lot of installs and uninstalls on freeware/trial utlilities the last week. I have never had this happen before, the standard windows defrags all worked. I did two of the three defrags with everything shut down, even the screensaver off. The third I had light Internet activity during. What's up? Thanks.
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#2 Budapest

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 10:08 AM

Try doing a defrag in Safe Mode and see if this helps things. If files are in use they can not be defragged, and less files will be in use when in Safe Mode.

Edited by Budapest, 08 January 2007 - 10:09 AM.

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#3 ToDrag

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 04:51 PM

Thanks, Budapest. I did exactly as you said and I used the Lite version of AusLogics. It took quite awhile, but did help quite a bit. I ran an analysis with Diskeeper Lite afterwards. This is the current status of that drive now:

Volume ACER (C:)
Volume size = 34.57 GB
Cluster size = 32 KB
Used space = 21.45 GB
Free space = 13.12 GB
Percent free space = 37 %

Volume fragmentation
Total fragmentation = 12 %
File fragmentation = 25 %
Free space fragmentation = 0 %

File fragmentation
Total files = 58,517
Average file size = 320 KB
Total fragmented files = 1
Total excess fragments = 2,433
Average fragments per file = 1.04

Pagefile fragmentation
Pagefile size = 1.31 GB
Total fragments = 576

Folder fragmentation
Total folders = 5,464
Fragmented folders = 9
Excess folder fragments = 18

As you can see, it is much better. Diskeeper recommends to schedule defrag once a day. Any thoughts on that? It seems excessive to me. I am now loading everything new onto an exact same type of drive in the laptop, D:. Once again, thanks very much, that is the first time I have ever done a Smart Mode defrag.
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#4 jgweed

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 09:45 PM

There will always be some files that cannot usually be defragged, or are too few in number to bother with by DKeeper (similar to Windows XP defragger).

How often to defragment your hard drive should be determined by how you use it, and how often to add/delete/modify/move files. I generally defrag once a month as a part of my regular maintenance, or immediately after downloading a major application.
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#5 ToDrag

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 10:58 PM

Thanks jg.

I had the concepts right. Someone explained it (defragmentation) to me a long time ago like a bunch of books on a wall that should be in a certain order and got scrambled around (in amoung some open space) and needed to be put back in order to create the proper result (as if they told a story).

I think that is a viable visualization. The story is intact if you don't scramble them around much. If the drive is only being accessed, then little maintenance is needed. If not (programs put on, taken off, etc.), then the maintenance is going to be needed.

I know years ago I used to run 'scandisk' prior to defrag. I have heard now (since scandisk is no longer a standalone app) that it is best to run 'disk cleanup' prior to defrag. I still do not know if that is correct.

Only until I joined BC a few days ago had I, in over 20 years of PC use, ever heard of running utilities in Smart Mode. How brilliant. I am so thankful I found this place. I do not work and am at home most of the time and consequently am not around others who share their knowledge with me. This is the only truly productive board I have ever been on. You guys diserve the highes accolades for your work. As a result number of proficient and genuine folks have gathered 'round -- bc.com is a productive and pleasant place to be.

muchicimas gracias -
todd
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#6 Orange Blossom

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 12:21 AM

What you want to run before defragmentation is check disk.

Start --> Run --> type in cmd. In the black screen that comes up, type chkdsk /r . Make sure there is a space between the k and the / then hit enter

It will give you the choice of having it run at the next boot-up. Type Y then hit enter.

Now restart your computer and grab a drink or read a short story or whatever while the disk is checked for bad sectors, invalid entries and so forth. When it's finished and you want to defrag in safe mode, you'll have to restart again to get to safe mode. Otherwise, you can defrag in normal mode.

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#7 Budapest

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 01:12 AM

Another thing you can try is to run PageDefrag, which will defrag your system files. Check out this Microsoft article.
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it.

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#8 ToDrag

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 02:52 AM

Wow! Good stuff keeps pouring in!

Thanks, Orange Blossom, I'll run that command line just like you instructed me.

Also, Budapest, I got the page defrag and instructions from the link and I will run it also. I can feel that drive getting better already.

Thanks again and I will keep you posted on it. I'll be tied up tomorrow, but I'll update when I'm done.

regards -
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#9 jgweed

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 10:41 AM

"I know years ago I used to run 'scandisk' prior to defrag. I have heard now (since scandisk is no longer a standalone app) that it is best to run 'disk cleanup' prior to defrag. I still do not know if that is correct."

I habitually run diskcleanup, and then scandisk, before defragging. If I am doing monthly maintenance, I will also review the hard drive for unneeded files and folders, "leftovers," and any data that can be moved to disk for backup/storage. Why defragment gunk?
Regards,
John
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#10 usasma

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 10:51 AM

FWIW - Disk Cleanup will get rid of the "ash and trash" that accumulates. So, when you defrag, you won't have to defrag it. Then, when it begins to accumulate again - it'll be outside of the previously defragged area so that it won't impact performance as much.
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#11 ToDrag

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 01:24 PM

Update:

Budapest gave me a link to PageDefrag. I finally got around to running it last night. I set it up and left it on before going to bed. I got up this morning and ran an "analyze" on the windows defrag program and found out that the PageDefrag did help and I now have a four percent reduction of fragmented files.

This drive is still fragmented, and all I know to do is to continue running defrags frequently as it only defrags a small percentage at a time. It this sound thinking or is there something else? This is a new laptop with two hard drives. I have never had a situation with any drive on any computer where running defrag did not defrag virtually all of the fragmented files.

Thanks again to everyone for all your good advice. Thanks to bleepingcomputer.com, I am blessed in spite of myself. :thumbsup:

todd
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#12 usasma

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 04:12 PM

Is this a 2 hard drive laptop? Is it using RAID? If so, what RAID level is it running?
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- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#13 ToDrag

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 04:31 PM

Thanks for the reply.
What is RAID? Where do I find this?
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#14 usasma

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 08:56 PM

I mention this because we got a Toshiba Quosimo laptop in the shop not long ago that had 2 hard drives. One of the techs setup RAID 1 to mirror the drives and protect the data.

RAID stands for Redundant Array of Independent Disks. Here's a link to the Wikipedia explanation of it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redundant_arr...dependent_disks

Basically it's a way of getting more reliability or speed by using several disks together. The issue here is, if you're using RAID 1 (mirroring) that it may cause behavior like this if both disk's aren't defragmented. BUT...this is just speculation on my part - I haven't tried this yet and am no expert about RAID either.
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

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#15 ToDrag

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 10:02 PM

Thanks for the reply Sgt. Major.

Well, reading about RAID is interesting. I can certainly see the benefit it can offer. But with any technology, there can be problems. I am still not sure if my machine's drives are RAID mirrored. I will read through the documents that came with it to see if I can determine it. It is an Acer Series 5100 with two 40 gig drives. I will check through the docs that came with the the laptop to see what I can find out.

I haven't tried to defrag the second hard drive, yet. There is not much on it and the defrag analyzer says it does not need to be defragged. I can do it anyway to see if that helps.

take care -
todd
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to thee, these three: love, joy & the blues




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