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New Hard Drive Questions


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#1 Papakid

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Posted 23 December 2006 - 01:44 PM

I've had this PC for four years now and concentrated on learning how software works. Starting to have hardware problems and this area is pretty much all new to me, especially with hands on experience, so I need some help from you hardware gurus about some things I haven't been able to figure out on my own.

The first one is pretty simple but first the background.

I just installed a 120 GB Seagate hard drive as a second hardrive for data storage only. I used Seagate's Disk Wizard for this and when I fired the PC up after installation, Disk Wizard took care of all the formatting and partitioning. The new hard drive is one big partition.

I'm thinking of splitting it into two partitions. I would like to do this with the Disk Management Utility in Windows XP, as I don't really have the money for a commercial program like Partition Magic and the freeware one's I'm aware of are a bit advanced for me it seems. But mostly I just want to know how to do what I can with what Windows provides.

So my question is this--do I have to delete the one big partition in order to create two partitions on the new drive? If so no problem, I have only used it so far to transfer a few files over to test and am storing images from Acronis True Image 7, which can be redone.

I don't see any way to use Disk Wizard to do this, and I don't think Acronis can do it either, tho I could be wrong. I haven't created a safe Zone yet with the latter--is that an actual partition or virtual? As I understand it, Safe Zone is only accessed by Acronis and I'm wanting to make two partitions with open access.

The second question is a little more complicated. Disk Wizard makes a customized installation guide that can be printed out before the actual installation. My C: drive is a 40 Gig Samsung, and the guide shows how to set the jumpers. The diagram for the Samsung drive was confusing in that it was unclear of the orientation--left, right and up and down. But what got me is I was told the Samsung should be set to Master with Slave. Instead of having the C drive set to Master and the new drive set to Slave.

So my second question is--have any of you with lots of experience ever heard of such a thing?

I ended up just leaving the jumpers on cable select and got the drive working. Just curious about this. One jumper was in a horizontal position and the other vertical. I just figured all jumper positions would be vertical and pretty simple--just chose between master, slave and cable select (and a holding position that I forget the term for). But I found out it can be much more detailed and horizontal positions can be used for other settings, mostly to do with capacity limitations. In fact the Samsung has a horizontal jumper setting that I left as is. Illustrated in the last diagram on this page: http://www.samsung.com/Products/HardDiskDr...ersguide_02.htm

Just never heard of Master with Slave before.

These questions are more for my own education, not critical help being needed. Just interested in anyone's comments. There are also probably some more details I need to provide, but will probably have to post them later.

The fate of all mankind, I see

Is in the hands of fools

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#2 usasma

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Posted 25 December 2006 - 10:22 AM

The Seagate tools should be able to do this - and so should Windows. The usefulness of a 3rd part partitioning utility is it's being able to resize the partitions without having to delete them.

In Windows Disk Management (Start...Run...type in "diskmgmt.msc" (without the quotes) and press Enter) you can delete the partitions, then create partitions in the empty space - and by specifying the sizes when doing it.

Acronis True Image can do this - but only with the "Secure Zone". It is a special partition that Acronis uses to store the image data. You cannot easily do anything else with it. Acronis offers another program (Acronis Disk Director) that will do this.

In your link to the Samsung site - notice the large diameter pins versus the smaller diameter pins. This will enable you to orient the drive. The larger pins are the 4 that the white Molex connector plugs into (they provide power for the drive).

Cable select will usually work just fine. But in the early days, it wasn't all that reliable and I stuck to the traditional settings (which I still use). If it works for you, then use it!

I've seen the option for "Master with Slave" on a few drives recently - and believe that it has to do with how the signal in the cable is terminated (if just a Master is on the cable - then it terminates it there. If both a Master and Slave are on the cable - then Master only won't allow the Slave to work, you'll have to use Master with Slave). But this is based upon the few that I've seeen - not on any detailed research.
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#3 Papakid

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Posted 25 December 2006 - 10:04 PM

Many thanks usasma. Your description of the Master with Slave deal makes perfect sense. It's just something I didn't run across when reading up on how to install hard drives. And really no good hits on it with Google.

And as I suspected I'll have to delete that partition if I want to use Disk Management to repartition. I'll have to look closer at Seatools and try some things with Disk Wizard. My impression was that Seatools was diagnostic utilities only. I'll explore that and post back.

One note--I didn't explain very well what was confusing about orientation. It wasn't the Samsung site, but the customized installation guide I printed out from Disk Wizard before the physical installation. Here's the illustration for how Disk Wizard said the jumpers for the Samsung should be set: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v159/Papakid/scan-1.jpg

The Samsung illustration was pretty straightforward--you can tell that you are facing or looking at the back of the drive. The Disk Wizard illustration showing the circuit board side of the drive doesn't really tell me how the cutaway jumper schematic is oriented. Was it flipped up or just what. Hard to explain, but it just wasn't clear to a first timer like me.

That's the main reason I went with Cable Select--which is what the quick instructions on the drive label said to set it at anyway. I was just wanting to know what the correct jumper settings were in case of problems and knowing what my options were.

And you know it doesn't help when the Samsung site doesn't show any Master with Slave Jumper settings. I left it set just like the last illustration on that page:

Cable Select in upper 32GB
(capacity ≥ 32 GB)

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Is in the hands of fools

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#4 usasma

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 09:10 AM

It seems to me that the picture is looking down at the end of the drive. As such the horizontal jumper would be furthest away from the circuit board.

Are there any diagrams on the top of the drive? How about any lettering just below the jumpers on the circuit board?
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#5 Papakid

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Posted 26 December 2006 - 01:08 PM

Yes I agree the smaller diagram of jumper pins and settings is looking at the back, and thus the horizontal jumper would be furtherst away from the circuitboard. But the larger illustration showing the circuitboard and connectors is what threw me off--wouldn't that be considered the bottom of the drive? It looks to me as if we are looking down at the bottom of the drive and if you turn the end where you see the cable and connectors attached toward you, then the smaller jumper illustration would be properly oriented.

It also makes sense that the jumper diagram would be oriented by looking at the back like any other diagram you might see on how to set jumpers for hard drives. Probably it's just me, but looking at the circuitboard side for initial orientation just throws me off. Why not just a generic illustration of what the back of most hard drives looks like; for example the first illustration on the Samsung page I linked to.

Are there any diagrams on the top of the drive? How about any lettering just below the jumpers on the circuit board?


I didn't take the Samsung drive out so can't really see if there is. It does have the markings for CS, Slave and master. Interestingly enough the Seagate didn't. I suppose because the jumper pin arrangement is pretty standard. And the jumper settings pictures I guess are pretty much standard as far as orientation too, it was just that on first glance that circuitboard picture threw this first timer off--probably most people wouldn't be confused by it.

Thanks again.

The fate of all mankind, I see

Is in the hands of fools

--King Crimson





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