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Religious Faiths


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#1 DSTM

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 01:02 AM

These changes could be coming to a suburb near you.I am respectful of other peoples beliefs,but when it starts to affect me financially,I start to object to changes to suit a very small minority.
In the paper here in Sydney today,local councils are starting to change the pedestrian buttons at intersections with infra-red motion sensors and heat sensors,just to please Orthodox Jews in our suburbs.
The paper states 2 intersections have been changed so far at a cost to the taxpayer of 19800 dollars for the two intersections so far.Many more intersection traffic lights are to be changed in the near future.Some of the things forbidden on their Sabbath Day the paper stated are.No driving,no cooking,no carrying,no handling money and not to use any electrical devices whatsoever.So pressing the button at the lights is out.
The local Rabbi said, QUOTE "The compromise solution's compliance with religious law could depend on whether it is working with infra-red motions sensors or with heat sensors". :thumbsup: Orthodox Jewish population maybe only 1% of the religious faiths here.I am concerned why my taxes should pay for someone elses beliefs.Like Christmas Greetings,I feel this is only the start of changes to suit religious minorities.I would have thought not having to touch anything at the lights was the solution.IMHO But evidently not. Any views?

Edited by DSTM, 17 December 2006 - 01:42 AM.















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#2 MaraM

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 01:44 AM

Wow. I've honestly got to give this some true thought before making a comment on it - but it does make me wonder if there are many other religions whos special needs are being met/not met by tax payers, as well?
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#3 DSTM

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 02:01 AM

Forgot to mention,Rabbi Dovid Slavin said,
QUOTE "Pressing a button on the SABBATH- the period of rest between sunset friday and sunset saturday-is considered a breach of religious law by Orthodox Jews"Just pondering as to how many other things in the home have buttons,that may be a concern to their beliefs.

MaraM, we don't have to look far to see where our taxes are being used to help religions.The Catholic church ( Vatican Bank) is reported to be one of the richest religious faiths in the western world.My concern is why isn't the Catholic church useing more of their own money,and less of our taxes.
Here's an example in my country. This link.

http://www.pm.gov.au/News/media_releases/m...Release718.html

Edited by DSTM, 17 December 2006 - 03:48 AM.















#4 Wildabeast

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 04:01 AM

Hm.... I've read the Bible several times and don't recall ever seeing in the Old Testament laws anything about driving, useing electrical devices or pushing buttons. There are old laws about cooking, working and I guess money handling would be somebody working if you bought something from them.

But pushing buttons?

:thumbsup:
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#5 MaraM

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 12:00 AM

DSTM, I must admit that just reading that report about the government (tax-payer's money) being spent to fund Catholic schools makes me wonder if the government is also going to fund other denominational schools, as well?

I have nothing against private schools - in fact, we sent a daughter to a wonderful non-denominational one!- but we paid through the teeth to do so, as well we should have. It was our choice - and tax payers money should go towards the public school system not private enterprise - which, in my mind at least, a Catholic School should be considered.

Yup, it can surely be confusing when some things such as pushing electrical buttons is a taboo but then again, I suppose it means a great deal to those with this belief. I've read the same Bible as you, Wildabeast, and never read anything about there being electricity involved in anything back then - but surely do remember the "day of rest" part. To each their own beliefs I guess, but as I said earlier, it's all a tad confusing to me.
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#6 DSTM

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 01:41 AM

DSTM, I must admit that just reading that report about the government (tax-payer's money) being spent to fund Catholic schools makes me wonder if the government is also going to fund other denominational schools, as well?

I have nothing against private schools - in fact, we sent a daughter to a wonderful non-denominational one!- but we paid through the teeth to do so, as well we should have. It was our choice - and tax payers money should go towards the public school system not private enterprise - which, in my mind at least, a Catholic School should be considered.

Yup, it can surely be confusing when some things such as pushing electrical buttons is a taboo but then again, I suppose it means a great deal to those with this belief. I've read the same Bible as you, Wildabeast, and never read anything about there being electricity involved in anything back then - but surely do remember the "day of rest" part. To each their own beliefs I guess, but as I said earlier, it's all a tad confusing to me.

Hi MaraM,All we ever hear about here is how much our government is assisting wealthy catholic schools,when it should be directed more into the public school areas of need.Never hear our Primeminister mention other religious denominations if ever,or rarely the plight of our Public schools.
John Howard is an opportunist in my opinion.Allways trying to bignote himself on TV with our money,not his.

My children all attended catholic private schools, right through their schooling from ages 5 to 17 Yrs.
It cost an absolute fortune in fees to school them.Tell you why in my opinion Catholic schools least need the money in my case.Not only high fees but if we wanted to get them into this school,we had to give to what this church called a Building fund from the time they were actually born.The unwritten law was they expected roughly 15% of your income to completely run the church and school,and this covered all expenses.The church was fully self sufficient so why do they need government handouts to these stupid amounts of tax payers money?This so called building fund extended right through their school years as well as the fees and what they collected in the church.I am disgusted when I hear of these gov handouts.
As I said earlier,I'm fine with everybody's religious beliefs,just don't ask me to support you with my hard earned taxes.Each to their own beliefs regardless how unusual we may think they are. :thumbsup:

DSTM.















#7 acklan

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 02:17 AM

Unless traffic signals are different down under than States side, they rotate around if you wait long enough. Right? If they cannot engage in any type of activity that is laborious why can't they wait 3 to 5 minutes till the cross walk are protected by the signal on the normal cycle?
I have 3 in Catholic Schools too. $2500\mo USD. The 14 yr old starts high school next year and that will be $10,000\yr. Worth every penny.
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#8 MaraM

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 02:38 AM

Not sure what this says about me as a person, but the more I think about it, the more I would have preferred these infrared sensors had been installed for the blind and other disabled people.
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#9 acklan

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 02:45 AM

It says you have compassion and wants whats best for your community. It would not be a bad idea near schools also.
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#10 DSTM

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 02:49 AM

Unless traffic signals are different down under than States side, they rotate around if you wait long enough. Right? If they cannot engage in any type of activity that is laborious why can't they wait 3 to 5 minutes till the cross walk are protected by the signal on the normal cycle?
I have 3 in Catholic Schools too. $2500\mo USD. The 14 yr old starts high school next year and that will be $10,000\yr. Worth every penny.

If traffic lights have to be changed,let it be for the people who really need the changes,not for stupid reasons. :flowers: Then I am only too happy to see my taxes help to make some peoples lives easier.

The traffic lights are the same here Acklan,and agree with your take on the situation.Often quicker than 3 minutes.Why is everybody impatient.I like to stop sometimes and "smell the roses"as the saying goes.
With me, if I am waiting for the lights to change,it gives me a moment to slow down from rushing, and look at my shopping list,and decide what shop to go to next.

Regarding Catholic Private Schools,I have absolutely no regrets.I was in business then and could afford to give my children the best education available in my area. I think they are better off for the experience.
I have previously stated my thoughts on Gov handouts.

Trivia.
The Catholic Father back then was a very nice person.He often came to our home for a home cooked meal,
and for a liquid refreshment from the fridge sometimes 2 or 3 times a week.Being so hot here,he had quite a thirst, and it wasn't Holy Water he was after. :thumbsup:

Edited by DSTM, 18 December 2006 - 04:32 AM.















#11 MaraM

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 03:20 PM

Just reading how many of us have sent or are still sending our children to private schools sadly confirms that there is little faith in our public school systems - gentle sigh.

And yes, having the sensors at crosswalks near schools and senior's homes are a great idea - too bad the government didn't simply couldn't honestly say 'for safety' they were beginning to install these. At the risk of sounding a bit negative here, suspect (as with most government decisions) money and politics causes the largest changes - good or bad.

But I'd love to know how the government appeases the other religious groups when explaining the Catholic School systems receiving such a whopping amount of money! But even more important, just imagine if they'd rolled that same amount of money into the regular school system - all children could benefit from a far better education and teachers could perhaps stop trying to desperately to teach 45 little ones in each class. Suspect I will never understand how our government who are supposed to care about the 'good of all citizens' can repeatedly show - and blatantly - that it's special groups that always seem to receive funding of public monies.

Although not Catholic myself, I've met some darn great Catholic Fathers myself through the years - and none of them could ever explain why, being the richest organization on earth, the Catholic Church rarely spends money on their own - and even others, for that matter. And what was with this 'building fund', etc! In fact, there was one Father in particular who, when he'd "borrowed" a 'tot or two' (usually Scotch - grin), would show his great frustration with the system. Imagine being in his position and knowing that he worked for the richest system in the world, yet had so many of his flock in great financial need - and being unable to do a thing about it.

And Churches worldwide - and not just the Catholic Church - wondering why people seem to be flocking away from organized religion over the past decade or more. Hmmm.
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#12 acklan

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 06:14 PM

But I'd love to know how the government appeases the other religious groups when explaining the Catholic School systems receiving such a whopping amount of money! But even more important, just imagine if they'd rolled that same amount of money into the regular school system - all children could benefit from a far better education and teachers could perhaps stop trying to desperately to teach 45 little ones in each class. Suspect I will never understand how our government who are supposed to care about the 'good of all citizens' can repeatedly show - and blatantly - that it's special groups that always seem to receive funding of public monies.

Dear I do not know where you are from but public schools spend more per student (at least in Louisiana, USA) than any, but the most elite, private school. In the Catholic school system 90%+ of the students at least start college. In public school that number is near 40% or less. In our Parish our teacher make 25% less that public teacher but we have a waiting list for job openings.
I truly do not believe it's the money but rather a corrupt system that is governed by politics, bad policy, and unqualified staff.

Although not Catholic myself, I've met some darn great Catholic Fathers myself through the years - and none of them could ever explain why, being the richest organization on earth, the Catholic Church rarely spends money on their own - and even others, for that matter. And what was with this 'building fund', etc! In fact, there was one Father in particular who, when he'd "borrowed" a 'tot or two' (usually Scotch - grin), would show his great frustration with the system. Imagine being in his position and knowing that he worked for the richest system in the world, yet had so many of his flock in great financial need - and being unable to do a thing about it.

Are we talking about the same church? The Church that is lead by the Holy Father in Rome? Come to Baton Rouge and I will show you the good works done here. Several thousand nursing home beds, a dozen + homeless shelters, and a kitchen that is open 365 and turns no one away. That does not even start with the world wide Catholic Charities. When I was a kid (17 yr old) a Jewish Synagogue was vandalized. My Church allow them to have Temple at the Church until the repairs could be made. That was back in 1977.
It bothers me when other religions and doctrines covet what the members of the Catholic church donate freely. If you want more monies spent collect it through your church. The only reason the numbers appear so large is we are represented a one. Everyone else is out for themselves.

And Churches worldwide - and not just the Catholic Church - wondering why people seem to be flocking away from organized religion over the past decade or more. Hmmm.

That is the real question that should concern everyone. I'll tell you part of it. Many people look to government as their religion. It use to be if you were down on your luck the churh would step in and help. They did not let you sponge off the church but they were there is a pinch.
Now you have 3, 4, 5, generations and more relying on a hand out.
i for one am tired of carrying lazy, worthless, parasites, with my tax dollars. Cut the money off and see how many of them get a job.
The welfare leeches? "Let them eat cake."
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#13 MaraM

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 09:12 PM

I apologise, acklan I truly do! Just reading about what the Catholic Church is doing in Baton Rouge makes me smile - truly great - and how I wish all areas did the same type of thing. I suspect each area is as generous or non generous as it's Priest/Parishioners allow perhaps? Regardless, what is happening in your area is so very wonderful!

Odd thing about religion - and I could be totally off-base here, but again I suspect so much of it depends on the individual leaders. For instance, a precious friend's little girl died in the mid-evening and because she is Catholic, we took her to the nearest Catholic Church - and of course, because of the crime in our modern world, the doors were locked. Did ring the bell and in turn were politely advised to return in the morning, even after explaining why we were there. Went to the next church and the Priest not only unlocked the doors, he literally welcomed her (and me) in with open arms. (This meant a huge amount to me because she and her little one had come from out of town for the wee one's surgery and although very close friends, I couldn't offer her the religious help she so desperately needed at this time). Yup, good and not-so-good everywhere and isn't it lovely that the good outweigh the others by far - huge gentle smile.

Yes, you've raised the exact reason we sent our daughter and 'our' other girls to private school - the huge difference between the quality of education often and the higher chance of University entrance. Truly am not too sure about what has happened to many of the public school systems but something seems to have desperately gone wrong in many cases. The very best of teachers must become not only over-burdened but terribly discouraged when they are swamped with little ones in each class - far too many to give any individual attention to - and I suspect more and more little ones are simply being 'left behind' because there isn't the time. Incredibly sad, especially as I honestly believe every single little one is a magical little creature who deserves every single opportunity possible to success and be happy in life.

Do think you're ever so right - the entire public school system (including it's spending) should be looked at critically and perhaps a totally new format created. Please believe me when I say I'm not against the Catholic private school or any other private school, but am still stunned that the government would give that huge amount of money to one denomination of private school.

Edited by MaraM, 19 December 2006 - 03:11 AM.

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#14 MaraM

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Posted 20 December 2006 - 12:38 PM

Re: (Quote) Now you have 3, 4, 5, generations and more relying on a hand out. i for one am tired of carrying lazy, worthless, parasites, with my tax dollars. Cut the money off and see how many of them get a job. (Unquote).

Hi acklan , suspect if you start a a thread about the above in the 'Speak Easy' forum, you may get quite a response. Gentle smile.
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