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Guns And Knives Why Is Everybody So Afraid Of Them?


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#1 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 12:31 AM

People seem so afraid now days if you carry a knife or even if you have a permit to carry a gun.
A lot of people want to make it illegal to carry a knife and gun.

It seems like to me doing this would be stupid. We would have no way to protect ourselves.

I carry a knife(8.5 inch folding knife or double bladed) just about everywhere I go. Not that its going to protect me in a case where a gun is pointed at me but if you were to get mugged it might help.

Safety is important. Some people out there are cruel and want to hurt people and rape women. If guns,knives and stun guns were outlawed and since the law cant be there all the time who would protect them?

What do you think?

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#2 MaraM

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 02:23 AM

Well, most of the murders are caused by people owning weapons, right?

The below stats are from World Health Organization (WHO, Geneva) - a bit outdated, but it does seem to hint at the fact that the country who believes in being armed does seem to have the higher rate:

TEN WORST LARGE CITIES IN USA FOR MURDER, 2002
PER 100,000
(1) Washington, DC 45.8
(2) Detroit 42.0
(3) Baltimore 38.3
(4) Memphis 24.7
(5) Chicago 22.2
(6) Philadelphia 19.0
(7) Columbus 18.1
(8) Milwaukee 18.0
(9) Los Angeles 17.5
(10) Dallas 15.8

TEN SAFEST LARGE USA CITIES FOR MURDER, 2002

PER 100,000
(1) Honolulu 2.0
(2) El Paso 2.4
(3) San Jose 3.1
(4) Austin 3.7
(5) San Diego 3.8
(6) Portland 3.9
(7) Seattle 4.5
(8) New York 7.3
(9) San Francisco 7.3
(10) Oklahoma City 8.5


CANADA - PROVINCE/TERRITORY FOR MURDER (2003)

PER 100,000
(1) Nunavut 10.21
(2) Northwest Territories 9.55
(3) Saskatchewan 4.12
(4) Manitoba 3.70
(5) Yukon 3.22
(6) British Columbia 2.24
(7) Alberta 2.00
(8) Ontario 1.45
(9) Quebec 1.34
(10) New Brunswick 1.07
(11) Newfoundland 0.96
(12) Nova Scotia 0.85
(13) Prince Edward Island 0.73


You honestly carry a knife every where you go, including school, CGM?
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#3 Wildabeast

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 02:54 AM

I've heard or read, about people who think that being able to carry a weapon legally will cause all kinds of problems. More crime, more murders. But like in England where only the Law Enforcement is allowed guns, it has not stopped criminals from having them. A few years ago the police over there got in to a jam when they (I guess the Bobbies don't carry) were out gunned by some criminals.
I belive in the right to bear arms. I also believe that you should be educated and trained before you can carry any weapon. I use to live in Denver, there is man there that has a pistol strapped to his leg, I saw him several times in different places. I don't think anybody has tried to mug or rob him... :thumbsup:
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#4 Nick_R_23

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 05:30 AM

I heard on the radio the other day that one of our schools (Juneau, i think it was) was having a gun safety course IN SCHOOL. There were real .22s and they teach kids how to use guns (responsibly) so when they go over to friends house they dont get screwing around and kill someone. Not a bad idea, teaches kids how to defend themselves and how to use a dangerous weapon wisely and to treat it with respect. I personally dont own a gun, but like cgm3 I also carry a folding knife with me just about everywhere I go. Yes sometimes ill forget it in my pocket and it comes along to school, but i dont go flashing it just kinda keep it private. :thumbsup: I dont carry it around really for protection, more as a tool cause as simple as they are they sure can do a heck of a lot.

Well, most of the murders are caused by people owning weapons, right?


Most of the weapons involved in murders I read about is either a kid was playing around with a gun or some kid shot some other kid with a gun that was either left out/not locked up. I think while everybody should (or at least have the right to) have a gun in thier house or close by for protection. BUT at the same time the people who buy or own the guns should also keep them either well hidden or locked up, or both. If a person is responsible enough to buy or own a gun, they should also be responsible enough to keep it out of reach of someone who can do harm with it, meaning to or not.

Just my .02

-Nick

#5 tg1911

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 06:43 AM

I noticed on your TEN WORST LARGE CITIES IN USA FOR MURDER, 2002 list, that Washington, DC is the one listed as having the highest murder rate.
I wonder if it's a coincidence that Washington, DC also has some of the most restrictive gun control regulations.
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#6 drivingmecrazy

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 08:43 AM

But like in England where only the Law Enforcement is allowed guns, it has not stopped criminals from having them.


Here in England we have very few murders by gun and of those most are confined to certain pockets of the country (usually the poorer areas) where there are drugs and gangs.

The extremely tight licensing laws here mean that, in general, guns licences are only granted for specific purposes (gun clubs, for example) and there is individual tracking and annual inspections.

Sure some of our criminals have guns, and sure they use them, but they have to get them illegally and that, to me, means that 'instant' crimes are usually gun free. If somebody is intent on committing a crime with a gun then it will happen but at least our laws make it difficult/inconvenient for them to get one.

More murders here (probably most) are caused by knifings and it's on the rise.

Sadly a lot of the knife murders are of teenage schoolchildren who have taken bullying/disrespect to its ultimate conclusion. Some children feel almost obliged to carry a knife for protection and that's what I think would happen with guns if we had freer access to them.

I can't speak for any other English people but, if guns were freely available here, I know for sure I would have to get one because my mind would be forced down a 'get them before they get me' path. I loathe and detest weapons of any kind but I would use one if there was no alternative.

I live in a farming community where guns are legitimately used for pest control but....

It's not my place to suggest thou shalt or salt not have guns but I genuinely do not understand why anyone would want to own a killing machine because 'it is a right' and not for sporting or work purposes.

Shoot me down in flames (forgive the pun) because I would like to understand.

#7 DSTM

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 09:32 AM

CGM asked this question:

Guns And Knives Why Is Everybody So Afraid Of Them?

I am not afraid of guns and knives themselves in the least.Just I have no way of telling at a "glance" in the street,which ones carrying guns and knives are the sane people,and which ones are the lunatics.

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#8 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 09:36 AM

You honestly carry a knife every where you go, including school, CGM?


Yeah I went to washington dc 1.5 years ago and I had my 8.5 inch knife. I could not go in anywhere with my knife because it was somehow a threat. They measured it and said that it was too long.

Then they told us we would have to leave the premises of the museum right then and there. They held mine and my dads knives and then after we got outside the men surrounded us with there two way radios and gave our knives back.

We were then let go and they watched us like a hawk the whole time until we were off the museum property. We all the way back to the car and put them up.

I think its crazy. They even made me take my belt off to go see the liberty bell. And my watch. Maybe people put bombs in there belts somehow or there watches.

I carry my knife everywhere. Town,church and wherever. I have went in baseball games with signs that say no knives and they dont even care. It just means no knives that dont fold.

I take it to theme parks and everywhere. I have since I was 10 or 11.

Not everybody who owns a gun or a knife kills someone. If the people that were killed had a gun on them or a knife think of how much better chance they would have had to get away. Guns dont kill people do.

We use guns around here on the farm for deer hunting and for other things. Everybody on my road prob owns at least 1 gun if not more. We have 4 in our house. 3 guns and 1 semi auto .22 pistol.

#9 drivingmecrazy

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 10:03 AM

CGM asked this question:

I am not afraid of guns and knives themselves in the least.


Nor me, crumbs like everyone I have knives in my kitchen that could be used as a weapon, but that doesn't make me want to take one out with me just in case. This is what I meant by loathing 'weapons'.

Guns only exist to kill.

It is beyond me why would anyone choose to a knife or gun upon their person (UK police speak!) without a specific purpose. Unless I am missing something, the carrier must be willing to use it - why else carry it - and that transforms a legitimate tool of work into a weapon.

#10 DSTM

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 10:20 AM

You honestly carry a knife every where you go, including school, CGM?


Not everybody who owns a gun or a knife kills someone. If the people that were killed had a gun on them or a knife think of how much better chance they would have had to get away. Guns dont kill people do.

In my opinion,carrying a gun for protection is futile.

If a mugger has a gun in your face,and sees you fumble in your pockets for your gun-your dead for sure.

If the mugger has a gun in your face to rob you,there is a chance he is only trying to scare you,and may not kill you,if he's pretty sure you haven't got a gun in your pocket.

I'd take my chances without a gun, quite frankly.
I think carrying a gun for protection is a false sense of security,unless you think your "Wyatt Earp"
and are as quick on the draw. :thumbsup:

DSTM

Edited by DSTM, 29 November 2006 - 10:50 AM.















#11 tg1911

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 10:33 AM

Sure some of our criminals have guns, and sure they use them, but they have to get them illegally and that, to me, means that 'instant' crimes are usually gun free. If somebody is intent on committing a crime with a gun then it will happen but at least our laws make it difficult/inconvenient for them to get one.

More murders here (probably most) are caused by knifings and it's on the rise.

That right there goes to show, gun control laws are irrelevant when it comes to preventing crime.
If someone wants to kill someone else, they're going to find a way to do it, be it a gun, a knife, a club, or kicking them to death.
Whether they use a gun, or not, the other person is still dead.
That gun did not kill that person, the one using the gun did it.
A gun is just a tool, and like any other tool, it can be used for good, or evil.
I can load a gun, and set it on a table, and from now, until it turns to rust, it won't kill a single person, unless someone picks it up and uses it for that purpose.


Not everybody who owns a gun or a knife kills someone. If the people that were killed had a gun on them or a knife think of how much better chance they would have had to get away. Guns dont kill people do.

THE NATURE OF DEFENSIVE GUN USE INCIDENTS (a)

A. What the Defender Did with the Gun (b)
Brandished or showed gun 75.7 %
Verbally referred to gun 57.6 %
Pointed gun at offender 49.8 %
Fired gun (including warning shots) 23.9 %
Fired gun at offender, trying to shoot him/her 15.6 %
Wounded or killed offender 8.3 %

B. Location of Incident
In defender's home 37.3 %
Near defender's home 35.9 %
At, in, near home of friend, relative, neighbor 4.2 %
Commercial place (bar, gas station, office, factory) 7.5 %
Parking lot, commercial garage 4.5 %
School (in building, on school property, playground) 0.3 %
Open area, on street or public transportation 7.4 %
Other locations 2.3 %

C. Type of Crime Defender Thought Was Being Committed (b)
Burglary 33.8 %
Robbery 20.5 %
Other theft 6.2 %
Trespassing 14.8 © %
Rape, sexual assault 8.2 %
Other assault 30.4 %
Other crime 9.5 %

D. Did Offender Get Away with Money or Property?
% of property crimes with property loss: 11.0

E. Violence Directed at Defender
No threat or attack 46.8 %
Threatened only 32.3 %
Attacked but not injured 15.3 %
Attacked and injured 5.5 %

In incidents where defender was threatened or attacked:
Who was first to threaten or use force?
Defender 15.3 %
Offender 83.5 %
Someone else 1.3 %

F. Offender's Weapons (b)
None (unarmed) 51.9 %
Weapon 48.1 %
Handgun 13.4 %
Other gun 4.5 %
Knife 17.8 %
Other sharp object 2.0 %
Blunt object 9.9 %
Other weapon 5.9 %

G. Shooting
Did offender shoot at defender?
% of all incidents 4.5
% of incidents with offender armed with gun 26.2

Did both parties shoot?
% of all incidents 3.1

H. Type of Gun Used by Defender
Revolver 38.5 %
Semi-automatic pistol 40.1 %
Other, unspecified handgun 1.1 %
Rifle 6.4 %
Shotgun 13.9 %

I. Relationship of Offender to Defender
Stranger 73.4 %
Casual acquaintance 8.3 %
Neighbor 1.3 %
Boyfriend, girlfriend 1.0 %
Other friend, coworker 1.0 %
Brother, sister 0.0 %
Son, daughter 0.5 %
Husband, wife 3.1 %
Other relationship 4.2 %
Unknown 7.3 %

J. Number of Offenders
1 47.2 %
2 26.1 %
3-4 17.6 %
5-6 4.0 %
7 or more (includes 3 cases where defender could only say there was a very large number) 5.0 %

K. Defender's Perceived Likelihood that Someone Would Have Died Had Gun Not Been Used for Protection
Almost certainly not 20.8 %
Probably not 19.3 %
Might Have 16.2 %
Probably would have 14.2 %
Almost certainly would have 15.7 %
Could not say 13.7 %

L. Were Police Informed of Incident or Otherwise Find Out? 64.2 %

Notes:
(a). Table covers only defensive uses against persons, and excludes nine cases where respondents refused to provide enough detail to confirm incidents as genuine defensive uses.
(b). Percentages will sum to more than 100% because respondents could legitimately select or report more than one category.
©. Only 3.7% of incidents involved trespassing as only crime.

ARMED RESISTANCE TO CRIME: THE PREVALENCE AND NATURE OF SELF-DEFENSE WITH A GUN
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#12 drivingmecrazy

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 11:36 AM

That gun did not kill that person, the one using the gun did it.


Sorry tg1911 but I totally disagree. The person and the gun are equally responsible. Unless I've missed something (or a gun is rigged to fire itself) the one needs the other to effect a shooting

A gun is just a tool, and like any other tool, it can be used for good, or evil.
I can load a gun, and set it on a table, and from now, until it turns to rust, it won't kill a single person, unless someone picks it up and uses it for that purpose.


I'm not picking on you, honestly :thumbsup: and your point is valid but I still don't understand why someone would want own a gun unless they intend or are prepared to use it. Surely not all people who have guns need them for work or sport????

Edited by drivingmecrazy, 29 November 2006 - 11:40 AM.


#13 tg1911

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 12:21 PM

Sorry tg1911 but I totally disagree. The person and the gun are equally responsible. Unless I've missed something (or a gun is rigged to fire itself) the one needs the other to effect a shooting

That makes no sense, to me.
How, can an inanimate object, be "responsible".
That's like saying, because the driver of a car ran into someone, and killed them, the car he was driving was responsible.
That car, has absolutely no control of the situation.
The only one "responsible" for the accident, is the driver.

I'm not picking on you, honestly smile.gif and your point is valid....

I don't think you're picking on me.
We're just having a discussion, and everybody is entitled to their opinion, whether you agree with it, or not.

Surely not all people who have guns need them for work or sport????

You don't have to have a reason to own a gun.
What gives anyone the right to decide, what, is good for me.
As long as I'm not bothering, or hurting anyone, my business, is nobody's business.
I just like to go out shooting.
I do it for fun, and sport.
Plain and simple, I enjoy it.

.... but I still don't understand why someone would want own a gun unless they intend or are prepared to use it.

I do intend to use it.
For recreational shooting, hunting, and self-defense, if necessary.
Prepared to use it?
If something, or someone, poses a threat to me, or my family, I am fully prepared to use it.
I wouldn't hesitate a second.
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#14 drivingmecrazy

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 01:46 PM

How, can an inanimate object, be "responsible".
That's like saying, because the driver of a car ran into someone, and killed them, the car he was driving was responsible.
That car, has absolutely no control of the situation.
The only one "responsible" for the accident, is the driver.

Semantics methinks. It is impossible to shoot someone without a gun, ergo a gun is an intrinsic element in any shooting. The 'it's not the gun but the person using it' is a neat thing to say but it doesn't alter the fact that a gun has one prime function - to kill. If you don't own a gun you can't shoot.

We're just having a discussion, and everybody is entitled to their opinion, whether you agree with it, or not.

It was merely a friendly gesture

You don't have to have a reason to own a gun.

We in the UK do not have widespread gun ownership so I, and I suspect many other Brits, would say that there should be a reason because it isn't part of our culture

What gives anyone the right to decide, what, is good for me.
As long as I'm not bothering, or hurting anyone, my business, is nobody's business.
I just like to go out shooting.
I do it for fun, and sport.
Plain and simple, I enjoy it.

Your choice - I am neither for nor against gun ownership.

I do intend to use it.
For recreational shooting, hunting, and self-defense, if necessary.
Prepared to use it?
If something, or someone, poses a threat to me, or my family, I am fully prepared to use it.
I wouldn't hesitate a second.

This was in response to your analogy of the rusting gun on the table.

I am NOT part of the anti-gun lobby - in fact my family has a gun for use on the farm. As I said in an earlier post, my problem is with people walking around armed with a gun or a knife (work reasons apart). Nothing will convince me that is healthy or justifiable.

Edited by drivingmecrazy, 29 November 2006 - 01:55 PM.


#15 jgweed

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 02:20 PM

"It is impossible to shoot someone without a gun, ergo a gun is an intrinsic element in any shooting."

It is impossible to hammer a nail into a piece of wood without a hammer, and therefore the hammer is an intrinsic element in any hammering. But we would not think that the hammer in itself does the pounding of the nail without the use of the hand and human direction. And if the hammer is used to bludgeon someone to death...?

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