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Christmas


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#1 kbk

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 05:12 PM

The other day my math teacher told us that we shouldn't say "Christmas" but instead "Xmas" because non-christians might get upset about us saying Christmas. I am absolutely outraged that just because someone who doesn't believe the same as I might get upset I shouldn't say a certain word. What do you think of this? Is it fair? Is America NOT 90% christian? Should we change so as not to hurt this other 10%?
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#2 groovicus

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 07:46 PM

Is America NOT 90% christian?


No, it is not. According to statistics from several different sources, Christian are roughly 76% of the population. So to put that into perspective, that means there are roughly 72 million people in this country that are not. To put that in further perspective, just a little over 62 million voters re-elected President Bush. That is also roughly the population of North and South Korea combined.

Groups that big can have a lot of influence, not just political. So yes, sometimes it pays to be at least a little considerate. The real issue I have is why on earth your math teacher feels the need to tell you how to behave. Xmas is synonymous for Christmas, so there is no gain. And your math teacher is really pushing their own views onto you.

Tell your math teacher to stick to what they were hired to do. :thumbsup:

#3 buddy215

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 07:55 PM

Please, is that the best fabrication you can come up with? Reminds me of last year when Fox News tried to create controversy over stores saying Happy Holidays. By the way, How do you pronounce Xmas? It is only used in text. Come on, you can do better than this.
“Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded and the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics...you are all stardust.”Lawrence M. Krauss
A 1792 U.S. penny, designed in part by Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, reads “Liberty Parent of Science & Industry.”

#4 DSTM

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 09:53 PM

Is America NOT 90% christian?


No, it is not. According to statistics from several different sources, Christian are roughly 76% of the population. So to put that into perspective, that means there are roughly 72 million people in this country that are not. To put that in further perspective, just a little over 62 million voters re-elected President Bush. That is also roughly the population of North and South Korea combined.

Groups that big can have a lot of influence, not just political. So yes, sometimes it pays to be at least a little considerate. The real issue I have is why on earth your math teacher feels the need to tell you how to behave. Xmas is synonymous for Christmas, so there is no gain. And your math teacher is really pushing their own views onto you.

Tell your math teacher to stick to what they were hired to do. :thumbsup:

Be considerate my ........Has everybody forgotten the term:" WHEN IN ROME,DO AS THE ROMANS DO"
It would be the same if I went to a muslim country,and expected them to change part of their beliefs
just for me.What chance would I have of success?Absolutely zero.In my opinon, it's time all these
do-gooders put their energy into something constructive,instead of trying to please a select few.

DSTM.















#5 groovicus

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Posted 04 November 2006 - 09:58 PM

I am not sure which country you are talking about, but there is no national religion (in the United States anyway). What is the National Religion where you reside?

EDIT: I thought I should maybe clarify that I was reciting stats on the United States. kbk did not specify, so he may have meant the continents of North and South America. In which case, the balance goes much further the other direction away from Christianity.

Christians make up roughly 33% of the world's population. That's 66% that isn't. So, perhaps there are times to be tolerant. After all, isn't that what good Christians are supposed to d0?

#6 DSTM

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 12:28 AM

I am not sure which country you are talking about, but there is no national religion (in the United States anyway). What is the National Religion where you reside?

EDIT: I thought I should maybe clarify that I was reciting stats on the United States. kbk did not specify, so he may have meant the continents of North and South America. In which case, the balance goes much further the other direction away from Christianity.

Christians make up roughly 33% of the world's population. That's 66% that isn't. So, perhaps there are times to be tolerant. After all, isn't that what good Christians are supposed to d0?

Hi Groovicus,In my country I believe that Christianity does account for the majority.Don't quote me on that as I haven't the latest stats.Our country is multi cultural,and with the large infux of new arrivals,I guess the pendulum will start moving the other way, in the not too distant future.In Aust.children play a game called"Spot the Aussie" (LOL).It is honestly getting that way.

Further to your post, which I agree with,I consider myself a good christian,although not a bible basher or church goer.I respect other peoples religions,but the point in my last post I was trying to get across, is that I don't ask them to tweak their writings or beliefs just to suit me, so I would not expect them to become offended, if I wished to spell Christmas any way I wanted to. Teachers who instill their own ideas on innocent school children should have a reality check. Haven't the teachers guide lines to adhere to?

DSTM.

Edited by DSTM, 05 November 2006 - 02:02 PM.















#7 kbk

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 12:38 AM

Yes, teachers do have guidelines to follow, but most of them force their ideas on you regardless. According to my pastor, and my dad, Xmas and Christmas are not the same, because Xmas takes the Christ out of Christmas (makes sense..). Also, I didn't know that Christians were 76% of US population, interesting. Buddy215, what do you mean by "you can do better than this"?
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#8 DSTM

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 12:54 AM

My thoughts exactly,kbk.To put an (X) where Christ should be written is totally irreverent,in my opinion. :thumbsup:















#9 MaraM

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 02:29 AM

Piffle! Gentle grin! I'm honestly all for 'political correctness' in many things, but who can really argue that Christmas is simply a time for Christians to celebrate the birth of their Christ.

Although not a Christian myself, I'm far from offended when someone says, "Merry Christmas" to me - rather, I think of it as a season of smiles and magic for so many, myself included (we celebrate this time of year as simply a time of charity and lovely times - and yup, I still believe in Santa Claus - after all, he's never ever let me down, not once! :thumbsup: ).

Kbk, I only wish your math teacher had added that for those who may be 'offended', it would perhaps be a good thing to remember in this world of violent and hate, any kind of kind thought towards another is something to be pleased about. Gentle smile.

(On a personal note, I'm still feeling a bit stunned at the reply I got when phoning a store last Christmas season ... "Happy Ho!" - eep! - I would have gently suggested that perhaps the young man had forgot the second 'ho', but I was laughing too hard and had to hang up).
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#10 Wildabeast

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 03:47 AM

The Holiday is named Christmas, would call Veterans day "the day for people who use to be and/or still are in the armed forces"?
If non Christians don't like it, they don't have to say it. It's still a free country, the don't have to like it either and it won't upset me.
"The nine most feared words in the english language, 'I'm from the government, and I'm here to help'..."
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#11 ambellina

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 09:08 AM

Xmas is just an abbreviation, i thought to become religion-neutral it was meant to be "happy holidays."

i agree with dstm. america is supposedly a largely christian country, and even those who are not christian still often celebrate christmas. a non-christian becoming offended over "merry christmas" is just silly, but i know some "christians" who get angry when people tell them "happy holidays" instead of "merry christmas." they go on this stupid rant about "ITS CHRISTMAS, ITS A CHRISTIAN HOLIDAY, SAY CHRISTMAS!" and i think that thats equally silly.

#12 buddy215

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 09:28 AM

http://www.cresourcei.org/symbols/xmasorigin.html

Abbreviations used as Christian symbols have a long history in the church. The letters of the word "Christ" in Greek, the language in which the New Testament was written, or various titles for Jesus early became symbols of Christ and Christianity. For example, the first two letters of the word Christ (cristoV, or as it would be written in older manuscripts, CRISTOS) are the Greek letters chi (c or C) and rho (r or R). These letters were used in the early church to create the chi-rho monogram (see Chrismons), a symbol that by the fourth century became part of the official standard of the emperor Constantine.

Another example is the symbol of the fish, one of the earliest symbols of Christians that has been found scratched on the walls of the catacombs of Rome. It likely originated from using the first letter of several titles of Jesus (Jesus Christ Son of God Savior). When combined these initial letters together spelled the Greek word for fish (icquV, ichthus).

The exact origin of the single letter X for Christ cannot be pinpointed with certainty. Some claim that it began in the first century AD along with the other symbols, but evidence is lacking. Others think that it came into widespread use by the thirteenth century along with many other abbreviations and symbols for Christianity and various Christian ideas that were popular in the Middle Ages. However, again, the evidence is sparse.

In any case, by the fifteenth century Xmas emerged as a widely used symbol for Christmas. In 1436 Johannes Gutenberg invented the printing press with moveable type. In the early days of printing typesetting was done by hand and was very tedious and expensive. As a result, abbreviations were common. In religious publications, the church began to use the abbreviation C for the word "Christ" to cut down on the cost of the books and pamphlets. From there, the abbreviation moved into general use in newspapers and other publications, and "Xmas" became an accepted way of printing "Christmas" (along with the abbreviations Xian and Xianity). Even Websterís dictionary acknowledges that the abbreviation Xmas was in common use by the middle of the sixteenth century.

So there is no grand scheme to dilute Christianity by promoting the use of Xmas instead of Christmas. It is not a modern invention to try to convert Christmas into a secular day, nor is it a device to promote the commercialism of the holiday season. Its origin is thoroughly rooted in the heritage of the Church. It is simply another way to say Christmas, drawing on a long history of symbolic abbreviations used in the church. In fact, as with other abbreviations used in common speech or writing (such as Mr. or etc.), the abbreviation "Xmas" should be pronounced "Christmas" just as if the word were written out in full, rather than saying "exmas." Understanding this use of Christian symbolism might help us modern day Xians focus on more important issues of the Faith during Advent, and bring a little more Peace to the Xmas Season.

-Dennis Bratcher, Copyright © 2006, Dennis Bratcher - All Rights Reserved
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#13 seafox14

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 10:19 AM

I just think that is is very odd that people expect christians to be tolerant of other religions and non religion in the case of atheism, but that same tolerance is rarely extended to christians. I remember all os the lawsuits by the ACLU to remove anything even remotely resembling a christian symbol in several county and city seals (Los Angeles county, and the City of Virginia Beach for example). If the American Civil Liberties Union were truly just trying to enforce the separation of church and state as they claimed, why were they going only after a small cross in the seal of Los Angeles county and not also going after the picture of the goddess europa that makes up the majority of the seal?


True tolerance in the case of Christmas is to let the christians say Merry Christmas and show those that are not christians the same courtesy by not objecting when they say Happy Holidays. However, more and more often we are not shown the same courtesy that we are expected to show to others. Hypocrisy? you decide.

P.S. I do know that there is also Hypocrisy in the church. Why else do you think I can recognize it when I see it, and fight against it? Hypocrisy is ugly no matter where it happens.
5 So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Donít be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world

#14 rms4evr

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 08:28 PM

I just think that is is very odd that people expect christians to be tolerant of other religions and non religion in the case of atheism, but that same tolerance is rarely extended to christians.

Yes! Yes!!! I get sick and tired of that!!! :thumbsup:

Most of us Christians just want to pratice our faith without being flamed to death. Please show us the same courtesy that you would want us to show to you!!

And MaraM, I like your attitude!! :flowers: Christmas is about the birth of the Messiah; it is a happy time, to go and show God's love to everyone. Even if you don't celebrate Christmas, please just let me share the love!!

#15 Darthy

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 09:08 PM

What's the difference? Xmas or Christmas are the same season!!! :thumbsup:
For me, I'm not a Christian, it's a very beautiful season, so I don't understand your math teacher kbk.
Εν οίδα οτι ουδέν οίδα - Socrates
Thanks John




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