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Communism V. Capitalism


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#1 ussr1943

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 06:48 PM

I thought it would be nice to see some new topics, so i decided to post this.
what do you think is a better system
Communism
or
Capitalism

or you could even make up your own form of government and post your ideas here.
if you don't agree with someone else's opinion please post why you think its wrong, or what could be used to improve that system.

Edited by jgweed, 27 October 2006 - 12:22 PM.

"Ideas are far more powerful than guns."
"The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed guards -- and even then I have my doubts." --Eugene H. Spafford
"One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter"

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#2 locally pwned

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 12:32 AM

For clarification: when you speak of communism, are you referring to pure Marxist communism (which has yet to exist in practical application) or some communist model that has existed at some point the past or present?
"The whole of science is nothing more than a refinement of everyday thinking." - Albert Einstein

"The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine

"If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands." - Douglas Adams

#3 jgweed

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 12:52 AM

I think the participants in this discussion should decide from the onset whether the topic will be limited to theoretical constructs/models (such as "capitalism" or "state of nature" "original contract") or include the practical applications of general theories ("Communism in one country", Maoist communism, communist/socialist experiments in the US, etc. ), knowing that any example in the real world will be but a shadow of the theory thrown against the wall of the cave.
Regards,
John
Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one should be silent.

#4 MaraM

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 03:20 AM

Communism doesn't appeal to me on a personal level, but I'd love to hear from people in Poland and Russia, etc about this topic.

It may not have been the greatest life before in Russia but apparently it took very little time to 'crash to it's knees' once capitalism stepped in to 'save them' - ergo, many many more without jobs, proper shelter, medical coverage/care, etc.
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While outer events might make one happy or sad, happiness itself is entirely internal, and at all times completely within one's power.

#5 Wildabeast

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 05:35 AM

IMHO, I think the world should just make me King. After all, I'm the only sane and normal person I know! :thumbsup:
"The nine most feared words in the english language, 'I'm from the government, and I'm here to help'..."
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#6 DSTM

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 06:51 AM

Like most of you,I would like our world to be in better shape than it is.
Having limited knowledge about Communism,and feel that Capitalism
has it's shortcomings,I would like to pose this question to the learned.
Would it be feasible, to take the best of both, to make a way of life that's
better for all of us,or is Communism and Capitalism so vastly different,
that it would be impossible to implement?

DSTM.















#7 Andersson

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 09:34 AM

From the two extremes I'd pick marxism/communism. But I really wouldn't like it to go that far.

Edited by Andersson, 31 October 2006 - 09:37 AM.


#8 kbk

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 11:45 AM

I'd pick Capitalism. For a variety of reasons, practically all of which I don't really want to mention because that almost never goes well on forums such as these. Regardless, Capitalism is what I'd choose.
www.thisisbeyondbelief.com

#9 MaraM

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 01:53 PM

I'd pick Capitalism. For a variety of reasons, practically all of which I don't really want to mention because that almost never goes well on forums such as these. Regardless, Capitalism is what I'd choose.




kbk, Re: not wanting to mention reasons because it almost "never goes well on forums such as these".

Perhaps not at all forums - but I have found that the people here at 'Bleeping Computer' really do give us a chance to debate without 'being eaten alive' by the opposing side - gentle smile.

On a personal note, I think it's the differences between all our views that make us think, really think - and help us learn why we believe what we do and that we could possibly see the world is filled with grey areas, rather than always black and white or 'right' and 'wrong'.

And DSTM re: "to take the best of both, to make a way of life that's better for all of us,or is Communism and Capitalism so vastly different" ...

I've often wished for something very similar. I don't think the 'core' of either is perhaps so, so different - it's just the implementation of a 'gentle union of the two' seems such an impossible dream. Not because it would be impossible, but because our world seems to be 'ruled' and no matter how democratic we try to be, it's often only a few voices that are ever heard.

On a personal note, I often think politics is much like asking someone how they like the new car or boat that they've just purchased. Nearly every time they will say how wonderful it is, even if they aren't truly satisfied with it. After all, we can't 'take it back' and we don't want our friends to know we paid a fortune for a hunk of junk, right? Gentle grin.
Never let your computer realize you are in a hurry or just typing the last few words of a vital document.

While outer events might make one happy or sad, happiness itself is entirely internal, and at all times completely within one's power.

#10 seafox14

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 02:11 PM

I agree Mara. This forum is definatly different from most on the net. People can shaer their thoughts and not get flamed out of the sky.

These links may shed som light on the current subject:

Communism

Capitalism

Ironicly the 2 forms of society have the same weakness that prevents them from working as they were intended to. that weakness id basic human nature. With communism, the people that hold power during the transision have never given up that power when it was time to, historically speaking. With capitalism, greed will always drive it and caus more harm that good unless controles are placed on it (ie like what we have here in the United States).


Seafox14
5 So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Donít be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world

#11 Heretic Monkey

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 02:45 PM

I don't know very much behind the science of EITHER theories, but i do know that the shortcomings boil down to power-crazed ego-centric communist leaders or greedy money-hording "get rich no matter what" capitalists.

My opinion in this situation, as it is with most situations that deal with society or government, is to emulate Japan..... they seem to be pretty stable over there with whatever system they're working with :thumbsup:

#12 ussr1943

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 04:39 PM

i belive there needs to be a hybrid government, you can look at china like that , they are using hong kong as a capitolistic base to fund themselves, but i would prefer a form where all were equall and we all worked for a common good, and worked together to make a better future.
"Ideas are far more powerful than guns."
"The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed guards -- and even then I have my doubts." --Eugene H. Spafford
"One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter"

#13 kbk

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 04:45 PM

kbk, Re: not wanting to mention reasons because it almost "never goes well on forums such as these".

Perhaps not at all forums - but I have found that the people here at 'Bleeping Computer' really do give us a chance to debate without 'being eaten alive' by the opposing side - gentle smile.

On a personal note, I think it's the differences between all our views that make us think, really think - and help us learn why we believe what we do and that we could possibly see the world is filled with grey areas, rather than always black and white or 'right' and 'wrong'.


Yes, I would like to think that, but I've thought that in the past on certain forums and still been eaten alive. Plus I am pretty sure I'm greatly outnumbered here and I don't feel like bringing in my reinforcements :D.
www.thisisbeyondbelief.com

#14 ussr1943

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 08:05 PM

this should be a place where everyone is equal and has a fair share in what to say, even if i or you don't agree with it. as a wise man once said
i dont agree with what you say sir, but i'll defend your freedom to say it.
i forgot the guys name but it starts with a V. anyways keep posting on ideas i would certainly like to hear some more
"Ideas are far more powerful than guns."
"The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed guards -- and even then I have my doubts." --Eugene H. Spafford
"One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter"

#15 MaraM

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 08:30 PM

If I remember correctly, USSR1943 the "I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it" is attributed to Voltaire's attitude towards his fellow humans. But it's a wonderful saying and so incredibly true for so many of us, I suspect - gentle smile.


And kbk, I agree with the others completely - our 'Bleeping Computer' site is filled with people 'disagreeing' but being polite about it (you've only to read through some of the threads on religion, etc to realize this is honestly true here, thankfully. But still, if people have been intolerant of others ideas and you've been, in Seafox's words, "flamed" elsewhere, I can certainly understand your hesitation.

One of the largest differences between Commmunism and Capitalism is perhaps if one complained too loudy in one society, there was always the fear you'd somehow 'disappear' - whereas we complain like crazy about our system and while we don't 'disappear', we surely don't seem to be changing much as the generations go by - drat!
Never let your computer realize you are in a hurry or just typing the last few words of a vital document.

While outer events might make one happy or sad, happiness itself is entirely internal, and at all times completely within one's power.




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