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A Win10 & Win7 Question


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#1 Graphicool1

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 09:47 AM

Hi guys,

 

Before getting to my question, I'll first just add a little (relevent) background info.

 

I had a long time self build Win7 64bit Pro PC. Which I updated, at such times that I could afford to do so. Everything was running perfectly, until about a month ago, when as I was turning the PC off there was a...Flash Bang!...to all intents and purposes my PC was dead. Some of you may remember my more in depth account of this event at the time.

 

Prior to this happening, I had been saving for sometime to invest in a second PC. So I could have one to go online with, send and receive emails and get updates. The other I'd use (offline) souly for my work, art, music and poetry.

 

After conversing with a few well meaning souls on here (bleeping computer), it seemed that the concensus of opinion was that (probably) my PSU, MOBO, CPU, HDD's etc etc had been fried and it was time to splash the cash on a new PC. As I said It wasn't that I didn't have the cash to splash, but this would scupper my plans of two PC's. Not only that, but all my work had been saved to the now dead PC!. 

 

My first step, with fingers crossed was to check out 4 HDD's, 3 internal 1 external. All were/are fine and fully operational. Phew, that was a great weight off my shoulders. At least all my work was safe. Now I checked the PSU, as expected (by all concerned) it was dead. Now I had a dilemma, should I get another PSU and see if it booted?. Or just do another full online build, I went for the latter. But hereby lies the rub, I was told that to do this I would have to have Win10. Because Win7 couldn't support the new hardware. So I decided to go ahead with the new build and Win10 (not happy about about this though). If you are stll following this...my thinking was at least I'd be able to continue working while I saved for another PSU to test my other PC.

 

I now have my new build, Win10 £700 new PC. Which didn't run to a GPU or a sound card, both of these are on board for now. Which leads me to my question...

 

Because the only real things that have changed here is the MOBO and the OS. What would happen if I were to put in the Win7 64bit Pro HDD sata boot drive and swap the plugs from the Win10 64bit Home HDD sata drive. Would it boot into Win7?     



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#2 britechguy

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 09:58 AM

You could try it, as that's probably the only way you will be able to determine whether or not it works.  I cannot recall how Windows 7 licensing works as far as identifying the hardware associated with it.  I seriously doubt it will work, but the worst that should happen is that it doesn't work.

 

Now, the question becomes, and I ask it routinely these days:  Why would you want to even try to hang on to an OS that has less than 13 months of support time left?

 

If you intend to stay with the Windows ecosystem going forward you will transition to Windows 10, or whatever it happens to be called at some unspecified point in the future.  All indications are that the Windows As A Service delivery model is here to stay and we know that support for Windows 8.1 ends in January 2023.

 

If your intention is to remain a Windows user I cannot see any advantage, none, to putting off the inevitable.  Anyone who's been a Windows user through the decades has been though these transitions before.  This one's really no different.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 

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#3 CmmTch

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 01:01 PM

AFAIK to reliably have a 'dual boot' system both operating systems need to be on the same physical drive, if you install Win7 on your C drive where W10 now resides it may overwrite the W10 boot manager (if your new box is set up UEFI) and if set up legacy BIOS it may still affect the boot sequence.

 

There could be license issues too, if your existing Win7 is retail, there's no problem installing it on another computer, if it's OEM (if it came with the computer it's OEM) then it's only licensed for the computer it came with.

 

You might look for a less expensive power supply and see if that fixes your old computer. Power supplies aren't real expensive for a cheaper unit, but price makes no difference if a person can't afford it. If a PS fixes the old system then you've now got two boxes as you planned :)

 

Since Win7 is an older OS, and as britechguy mentions will soon be unsupported, it would probably be good to get used to W10. The best thing is at least your work wasn't affected, those drives can be hooked up in the new computer easily.


Edited by CmmTch, 08 December 2018 - 07:13 PM.

Steve

#4 pcpunk

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Posted 08 December 2018 - 05:55 PM

Because the only real things that have changed here is the MOBO and the OS. What would happen if I were to put in the Win7 64bit Pro HDD sata boot drive and swap the plugs from the Win10 64bit Home HDD sata drive. Would it boot into Win7?     

There are many factors to doing this, so you'd better be prepared.  And I would not even bother.  In fact I'm not even going to comment on it as there are so many things to consider.  Licensing, Drivers, and this is if will even boot.  If this were another Windows 7 machine then it would be different.  But if the Hardware complies with sysprep then you could try that.  If you were to do this and just a FYI there is a thing called "Sysprep"

"Sysprep (Generalize) a Windows installation"

I use this all the time, but honestly it is pretty technical so I only use it in one capacity, deploying Windows 7 Clean Installs.  Basically it removes all identifiers, Product Keys and Drivers are the Two Primary things it removes.  This allows one to deploy the image to other computers, but as you will see, or not see, there are some limitations.  

 

Seems like a simple answer to me, just get a PSU for the old pc and use that one offline after support is done as you planned all along.


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#5 Graphicool1

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 10:15 AM

Ok guys, first off thanks for responding. However, umm where to start, okay Brian, first come, first served. 

 

"I cannot recall how Windows 7 licensing works as far as identifying the hardware associated with it."

 

To all intents and purposes, surely, this would only be relevent, if I was actually installing another OS?.

 

When you instal an OS, you are installing it onto a HDD and then you register it. But I'm not intending to do that. Because Win7 is already installed and registered on the HDD that I would be placing into the new PC. I can see where you're coming from though, you think that this might be some kind of ruse. That I'm trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the Microsoft registers. But what I'm actually trying to do is access all the programmes that I've installed down the years and used to use daily. Programmes, some of which I paid for and many more that were free at that time. Software, that I would be hard pushed to replace, if it were even possible. Some of the paid for ones were downloaded (no disk's). I have much ongoing work using these programmes, work that is non transferable. 

 

I think that this (above) more than answers your question...

 

"Why would you want to even try to hang on to an OS that has less than 13 months of support time left?"

 

...Also, no disrespect, but if you had read or remembered what I said at the onset, you could have answered some of that question for yourself...

 

"...a second PC. So I could have one to go online with, send and receive emails and get updates. The other I'd use (offline) souly for my work..."

 

The old PC with Win7 would be the one I wouldn't go online with. Having both OS HDD's in the one PC and switching back and fourth between them. Would simply, (if you can use simply in this case?) be a short term workaround. Until I can raise enough money to get another PSU for the old PC. If the PSU does the trick, I can then replace the Win7 HDD boot drive back where it belongs.

 

"...I cannot see any advantage, none, to putting off the inevitable."

 

Any other place, any other time, I would relish debating with you. I truly believe that debates and heated arguments are the only things I really miss from my past life, if I really miss anything!.

 

As for Win10...

 

I generally move with the times, I've always looked to new horizons. I love progression, when it helps me and mine for the better. However, if I don't consider it's doing that, then you better believe, that I'll rile against it with all the fangs, claws and venom I can muster. But, let's face it, for someone like me to even verbally go up against an organisation like Microsoft, is like flogging a dead horse. Still, in answer to your question, for now, only death is inevitable.

 

"If your intention is to remain a Windows user..."

 

Yes it is, while I can continue to use the OS I want to. If or when that might cease to be an option, I can always step sideways and embrace a free OS. Although, many people are still using XP, why, because it suits them...Vive La Difference.

 

CmmTech

 

"...to reliably have a 'dual boot' system both operating systems need to be on the same physical drive, if you install Win7 on your C drive where W10 now resides it may overwrite the W10 boot manager..."

 

Again...no disrespect, but if you had read or remembered what I said at the onset, you would not have needed to make that uninformed statement.

 

"...Win7 64bit Pro HDD sata boot drive and swap the plugs from the Win10 64bit Home HDD sata drive."

 

IE Both OS HDD's in the same PC, at the same time. Swapping the MOBO plug and the POWER plug from Win7 HDD to Win10 HDD as and when each drive was needed.   

 

"Since Win7 is an older OS, and as britechguy mentions will soon be unsupported, it would probably be good to get used to W10. The best thing is at least your work wasn't affected, those drives can be hooked up in the new computer easily."

 

I respect your/everybodies views, however, please read my response to BRITECHGUY (Brian)

 

pcpunk

 

Well, at least you have read and remembered what I said at the onset. Even if you have chosen not to respond to my full question. Still, I found the software...'Sysprep'...interesting. Although, I don't believe it's something I need or want.

 

As you say, I'll probably just do as I originally intended and get another PSU, for the other PC. However, it'll not be a lower wattage one than I already have or had, it'll be the same or better. People are telling me that the one that went bang was probably because it was under too much continuous strain. It was a Corsair 850W.

 

At least then if it doesn't boot I'll have a back up PSU for the new PC. Although, I don't know where it might stop. People seem to think that everything could be knocked out!. I don't want have to source the same ASUS SE MOBO, then maybe another i7 Quad Core CPU and who knows, another Arctic Extreme Cooling System. I might have to get another 'top of the range' Nvidia GPU and a new Creative Sound Blaster Z PCIe Gaming Sound Card with High Performance Headphone Amplifier and Beamforming Microphone. Plus another 32GB ram, Oh and it was all wrapped up in a Cooler Master Case. The new one can't hold a candle to the other one.



#6 pcpunk

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 11:32 AM

pcpunk

 

Well, at least you have read and remembered what I said at the onset.

 

1. Even if you have chosen not to respond to my full question.

 

2. Still, I found the software...'Sysprep'...interesting. Although, I don't believe it's something I need or want.

1. Apologies, honestly I did not respond properly because I didn't fully understand the question, but now I think I do.  You wanted to run Two OS's on one machine.  Either way I would say NO, and if it is possible I've never been able to do it to the standards I adhere to. 

 

2. To do this you would need a very similar machine at the best.  But since the machine is newer all bets are off, and the only way I would see that you could do it would be systemprep.  But even with sysprep you may lose some of your licenses or even the software not compatible with the process.

 

Why don't you post the specs of the new machine.

 

You can Post a Speccy Snapshot if you want so that people can better help you.  To do so follow the directions below.

 

1. Create a Folder for "Speccy Portable" on your desktop. 

 

2. Download Speccy Portable to the Speccy Portable Folder.

 

3. Open the Speccy Portable folder you created and Click on "spsetup132" to unzip it. 

 

4. In the next window Click on Speccy64 and Select "Extract All"

 

5. Then you'll see "Select Destination and Extract Files" Window, just chose "Extract" to extract to the same folder.

 

6. Now you will see another folder with the Extracted files.  

 

7. Click on the "Speccy64" Application with the little Glasses on it, or "Speccy" if 32bit and select Yes when the security windows opens.  Most computers these days are 64bit.   

 

8. Let the little Icon in the lower Left corner run until it stops before you try to create your Link.

 

9. In Upper Left Click "File" > "Publish Snapshot" Select "Yes" and then Chose "Open in Browser""Copy to Clipboard" or Both.

 

10. Copy Paste that Link to your next Post.


Edited by pcpunk, 09 December 2018 - 12:02 PM.

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#7 CmmTch

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 11:35 AM



Ok guys, first off thanks for responding. However, umm where to start, okay Brian, first come, first served. 

 

"I cannot recall how Windows 7 licensing works as far as identifying the hardware associated with it."

 

To all intents and purposes, surely, this would only be relevent, if I was actually installing another OS?.

 

When you instal an OS, you are installing it onto a HDD and then you register it. But I'm not intending to do that. Because Win7 is already installed and registered on the HDD that I would be placing into the new PC. I can see where you're coming from though, you think that this might be some kind of ruse. That I'm trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the Microsoft registers. But what I'm actually trying to do is access all the programmes that I've installed down the years and used to use daily. Programmes, some of which I paid for and many more that were free at that time. Software, that I would be hard pushed to replace, if it were even possible. Some of the paid for ones were downloaded (no disk's). I have much ongoing work using these programmes, work that is non transferable. 

 

I think that this (above) more than answers your question...

 

"Why would you want to even try to hang on to an OS that has less than 13 months of support time left?"

 

...Also, no disrespect, but if you had read or remembered what I said at the onset, you could have answered some of that question for yourself...

 

"...a second PC. So I could have one to go online with, send and receive emails and get updates. The other I'd use (offline) souly for my work..."

 

The old PC with Win7 would be the one I wouldn't go online with. Having both OS HDD's in the one PC and switching back and fourth between them. Would simply, (if you can use simply in this case?) be a short term workaround. Until I can raise enough money to get another PSU for the old PC. If the PSU does the trick, I can then replace the Win7 HDD boot drive back where it belongs.

 

"...I cannot see any advantage, none, to putting off the inevitable."

 

Any other place, any other time, I would relish debating with you. I truly believe that debates and heated arguments are the only things I really miss from my past life, if I really miss anything!.

 

As for Win10...

 

I generally move with the times, I've always looked to new horizons. I love progression, when it helps me and mine for the better. However, if I don't consider it's doing that, then you better believe, that I'll rile against it with all the fangs, claws and venom I can muster. But, let's face it, for someone like me to even verbally go up against an organisation like Microsoft, is like flogging a dead horse. Still, in answer to your question, for now, only death is inevitable.

 

"If your intention is to remain a Windows user..."

 

Yes it is, while I can continue to use the OS I want to. If or when that might cease to be an option, I can always step sideways and embrace a free OS. Although, many people are still using XP, why, because it suits them...Vive La Difference.

 

CmmTech

 

"...to reliably have a 'dual boot' system both operating systems need to be on the same physical drive, if you install Win7 on your C drive where W10 now resides it may overwrite the W10 boot manager..."

 

Again...no disrespect, but if you had read or remembered what I said at the onset, you would not have needed to make that uninformed statement.

 

"...Win7 64bit Pro HDD sata boot drive and swap the plugs from the Win10 64bit Home HDD sata drive."

 

IE Both OS HDD's in the same PC, at the same time. Swapping the MOBO plug and the POWER plug from Win7 HDD to Win10 HDD as and when each drive was needed.   

 

"Since Win7 is an older OS, and as britechguy mentions will soon be unsupported, it would probably be good to get used to W10. The best thing is at least your work wasn't affected, those drives can be hooked up in the new computer easily."

 

I respect your/everybodies views, however, please read my response to BRITECHGUY (Brian)

 

pcpunk

 

Well, at least you have read and remembered what I said at the onset. Even if you have chosen not to respond to my full question. Still, I found the software...'Sysprep'...interesting. Although, I don't believe it's something I need or want.

 

As you say, I'll probably just do as I originally intended and get another PSU, for the other PC. However, it'll not be a lower wattage one than I already have or had, it'll be the same or better. People are telling me that the one that went bang was probably because it was under too much continuous strain. It was a Corsair 850W.

 

At least then if it doesn't boot I'll have a back up PSU for the new PC. Although, I don't know where it might stop. People seem to think that everything could be knocked out!. I don't want have to source the same ASUS SE MOBO, then maybe another i7 Quad Core CPU and who knows, another Arctic Extreme Cooling System. I might have to get another 'top of the range' Nvidia GPU and a new Creative Sound Blaster Z PCIe Gaming Sound Card with High Performance Headphone Amplifier and Beamforming Microphone. Plus another 32GB ram, Oh and it was all wrapped up in a Cooler Master Case. The new one can't hold a candle to the other one.

Jeez, kind of a crappy response from someone asking for help, I guess no disrespect intended here either. I read your initial post, for me (and many others I would suspect) it would be a big hassle to disconnect/connect SATA devices on anything but an infrequent basis. If the older computer is dead

 

If your Win7 is an OEM, it was tied to the motherboard in the PC it was sold on, it is not tied to the drive it's installed on (there may be, and probably is other hardware it is associated with) so moving the HDD to another computer and running Win7 the other computer will most likely not be an activated legal install of an operating system. From the quote below this is what you intend to do.

 

What would happen if I were to put in the Win7 64bit Pro HDD sata boot drive and swap the plugs from the Win10 64bit Home HDD sata drive. Would it boot into Win7?

 

The ideal solution is seems is to replace the power supply in the older Win7 computer and be done with it. You didn't address what you're going to do, just responded by refuting those responding to your post, IMO do whatever you want.


Steve

#8 Kilroy

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 11:41 AM

Your new build won't support Windows 7, unless you have an older CPU - this article was from 2016.

 

Unless you were running multiple graphics cards I don't think you were overloading an 850w PSU.

 

The best bet for getting the Windows 7 machine back up and running is to purchase a replacement power supply, which you should be able to pick up for 50 to 100 pounds.

 

Using two drives to dual boot the best method would be to use something, like a drive cage, to physically disconnect the drive not being used.  Alternately you could use the BIOS boot options to select the boot drive each time you power up.  I don't know how the BIOS option would affect drive lettering.



#9 britechguy

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 12:04 PM

CmmTch wrote, in part:  "If your Win7 is an OEM, it was tied to the motherboard in the PC it was sold on, it is not tied to the drive it's installed on (there may be, and probably is other hardware it is associated with) so moving the HDD to another computer and running Win7 the other computer will most likely not be an activated legal install of an operating system."

 

Which was precisely my point at the outset, but the OP doesn't want to hear it nor any other advice that does not comport with what he or she wishes to do or believe.

 

Help is a two-way street, and since this appears to be a one-way, well . . .


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#10 pcpunk

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 12:04 PM

In addition to what I said above you would need to create at least one full Image Backup of your Windows 7 Install and Seperately backup all your files as that may be destroyed attempting sysprep in this situation.


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#11 britechguy

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 12:07 PM

Kilroy wrote, in part, "The best bet for getting the Windows 7 machine back up and running is to purchase a replacement power supply."

 

Indeed.  Power supplies die all the time, most often having zero impact on any of the other hardware.  In my case, all the power supplies I've ever replaced have never involved replacing anything else that suffered "collateral damage."


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.  Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

       ~ Mark Twain

 

 

 

              

 


#12 pcpunk

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Posted 09 December 2018 - 12:08 PM

CmmTch wrote, in part:  "If your Win7 is an OEM, it was tied to the motherboard in the PC it was sold on, it is not tied to the drive it's installed on (there may be, and probably is other hardware it is associated with) so moving the HDD to another computer and running Win7 the other computer will most likely not be an activated legal install of an operating system."

That's a good point Brian which I forgot to reiterate when I made my post.  Way to many variables for the uninitiated.


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#13 Graphicool1

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Posted Yesterday, 10:26 AM

Brian

 

"Kilroy wrote, in part, "The best bet for getting the Windows 7 machine back up and running is to purchase a replacement power supply."

 

Indeed.  Power supplies die all the time, most often having zero impact on any of the other hardware.  In my case, all the power supplies I've ever replaced have never involved replacing anything else that suffered "collateral damage."

 

Perhaps you should have said this as your answer to my question at the onset?. Instead of wittering on with a load of other squit and put down assumptions of my pc knowledge credibility. Now also, for some reason, even my gender has come into contention.

 

"...with what he or she wishes to do or believe."

 

It's is easy enough to ascertain my gender, if you just open your eye’s, ‘Moderator’. It’s on the left of everyone’s postings, next to the word ‘Gender’. Not that I can see why my, or for that matter anyone elses gender, would need to be featured in your answer. Unless of course it’s your way of casting aspersions on the fairer sex?.

 

pcpunk

 

"To do this you would need a very similar machine at the best.  But since the machine is newer all bets are off,..."

 

I'm writing in a language you are supposed to understand, it's called English...

 

"Because the only real things that have changed here is the MOBO and the OS."

 

This is at the begining of the line, second from last, in my opening question. You yourself pointed up the two last lines. Which include this sentence and was the reason I thought you at least were on the ball. Until that is, I received one of your latest offerings. Re a step by step guide on how to download, install and use 'Speccy'. By the way, I have that on my Win7 rig.

 

Oh and for your information, you might be surprised to learn, that my first computer was an Apricot desktop. Made for business use. It's OS was MS DOS 2.0 and MS Basic-86 and included 'basic personal' on included disks. I got it secondhand, when a local firm was updating it's computers. At that time, it was high tech, you could have been forgiven for thinking it was alien technology. Looking back now and comparing it with what we have today, you might well be thinking it had come out of the ark! How times change.

 

Kilroy

 

Thanks for your straight to the point, waffless words of wisdom and selection of alternative suggestions. This was the kind of response I was looking for on BC.

 

I read the link re the article from 2016...

 

""Windows 10 will be the only supported Windows platform on Intel's upcoming 'Kaby Lake' silicon, Qualcomm's upcoming '8996' silicon, and AMD's upcoming 'Bristol Ridge' silicon.

 

This new policy doesn't mean that Windows 7 and 8.1 are no longer supported in general. The two operating systems will continue to get updates through January 14th, 2020 and January 10th, 2023, respectively. But that's only if you're using hardware that was contemporaneous with those operating systems.

 

For current PC owners, the detail to note is that Intel's current, sixth generation processors, known as Skylake, are the first that won't support either of the older versions of Windows"

 

I've never heard of anything like these names and I'm pretty sure nothing called anything like these are associated with my new pc. I'm thinking that perhaps they are for more high end rigs?

 

My Win7 PCU is i7 Quad Core, the new Win10 PCU is i5 Quad Core

 

Cheers mate.


Edited by Graphicool1, Yesterday, 10:31 AM.


#14 Porthos

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Posted Yesterday, 12:10 PM

 

the new Win10 PCU is i5 Quad Core

If you pc is truly new, It will not support anything except win 10. To be sure just post what model I5 processor.  If it has a 6xxx 7xxx or 8xxx in the number you are out of luck.



#15 Porthos

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Posted Yesterday, 12:27 PM

To add...

 

What would happen if I were to put in the Win7 64bit Pro HDD sata boot drive and swap the plugs from the Win10 64bit Home HDD sata drive. Would it boot into Win7?   

Even if by chance your processor on a new computer was old enough you would most likely be met with a BSOD.

 

 

Win7 is already installed and registered on the HDD that I would be placing into the new PC.

Actually the product activation/registration as you call it is tied to the motherboard of the old computer. If it is a retail version (did not come preinstalled on the computer it could be reactivated but that is a moot point since Win 7 is 99% probably not compatible with your new computer pending the answer to my previous post.






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