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#1 sikntired

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 02:58 PM

AT&T is my current ISP and they are partnered with Yahoo to provide email services. However Yahoo has merged with AOL and has become Oath. Their eula is unacceptable and am looking into alternatives.

 

It will also be imperative that I transfer all emails from Yahoo/AOL so I can then sever ties. Is there anything out there that would make this process easier??

 

As always will appreciate members input



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#2 britechguy

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 05:43 PM

Why is their EULA unacceptable?

 

I ask that not because I have any right to dictate to you what should or should not be acceptable, but in order for anyone to present you with alternatives that may be options for you they would need to be able to eliminate those with conditions the same as or very similar to those you cannot accept in the Oath EULA.

 

There's not a huge degree of variation in the EULAs of similar classes (free, paid but not encrypted, paid with end to end encryption requiring both parties to use their client) of e-mail, but there is some.  Knowing what you find unacceptable will help those trying to guide you.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#3 Condobloke

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Posted 04 August 2018 - 09:13 PM

I have used Gmail for quite some time. I have never read the eula. Reading it would probably ruin my day.

 

Have you investigated Gmail ?


Condobloke ...Outback Australian  fed up with Windows antics...??....LINUX IS THE ANSWER....I USE LINUX MINT 18.3  EXCLUSIVELY.

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#4 sikntired

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 07:30 AM

Why is their EULA unacceptable?

 

I ask that not because I have any right to dictate to you what should or should not be acceptable, but in order for anyone to present you with alternatives that may be options for you they would need to be able to eliminate those with conditions the same as or very similar to those you cannot accept in the Oath EULA.

 

There's not a huge degree of variation in the EULAs of similar classes (free, paid but not encrypted, paid with end to end encryption requiring both parties to use their client) of e-mail, but there is some.  Knowing what you find unacceptable will help those trying to guide you.

To be honest, I've not used any email provider other than Yahoo and I don't recall reading the EULA at the time. And I'm not at all sure if other email providers' EULA's are similar because I do not utilize them. With that being said, I am concerned about "privacy" in my emails including all content. And before anyone suggests, "there's no such thing as privacy" on-line, let me just say that I want to mitigate as much loss of privacy as possible.

 

Deleted link and pasted agreement as I received

 

 

 

 

I have used Gmail for quite some time. I have never read the eula. Reading it would probably ruin my day.

 

Have you investigated Gmail ?

I have looked at Gmail and is under consideration


Edited by sikntired, 05 August 2018 - 07:40 AM.


#5 sikntired

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 07:37 AM

Here's their EULA as it appears in my email:

 

Hello,

Please see the below information from Yahoo.  These updates will not affect the way you access your att.net email account.

The AT&T Terms of Service have not changed. You can review them here.

After reading the below information provided by Yahoo, if you have further questions please visit AT&T Community Forums.

Thank you for choosing us,
att.net Team


Dear Member,

In June 2017, Yahoo and AOL joined forces to create Oath, a media and technology company with a dynamic house of global brands, and a part of Verizon. It’s an exciting venture that we believe will bring a host of new innovations and digital experiences for our users. With Verizon, Oath can provide you with better experiences and services.

As part of this collaboration, we’re asking all users of Oath owned sites and services to agree to the new unified Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, which will help us continue to deliver and build on great digital experiences for you.

Please take some time to review and agree to the new unified Terms of Service and Privacy Policy by clicking on the button below. If you already agreed, no additional action is needed.
 

Review and agree now

To help you understand some of the key updates, we’ve provided a summary below as well as a description of what tools are available to you to manage your data and experience within Oath’s house of brands. Please note that this summary is not exhaustive and we encourage you to review the updated versions of our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. Those terms and not this summary will govern your relationship with Oath. To learn more about our approach to privacy, click here.

Terms of Service Updates Summary

  • We’ve added a mutual arbitration clause. Hopefully, disputes will never be an issue, but in the case of one, this allows a third-party arbitrator to help us resolve them. We’ve also added a class action waiver. These provisions are an important part of our relationship with you, so please read them carefully.
  • We’ve specified the legal entity that provides each service to you. For some services, this may be a different entity than the entity that previously provided the service. We’ve also reserved the right to transfer the providing entity for each service in the future.
  • General provisions that apply to billing, auto-renewal, and refunds have been added. Unless the additional terms for a service override the Terms of Service, these provisions apply to your use of our paid services.
  • Applicability of Terms. If you are using our services on behalf of another account owner (e.g., as an administrator, consultant or analyst) or on behalf of a company, business or other entity, the Terms of Service apply to your activities and are binding on the account owner or entity.
  • Indemnity for Non-Personal Use. If you are using our Services on behalf of a company, business or other entity, or if you are using our Services for commercial purposes, we’ve added an indemnity provision, which requires you and the entity to protect us against certain legal actions.
  • We’ve updated our choice of law and forum provisions. New York law now governs and New York, New York is the designated forum.

Privacy Policy Updates Summary


  • We’ve made it more readable! We took care to make it easier for you to understand our services and our privacy practices.
  • We’ve updated how we collect and use data. We’ve updated some of the ways we collect and analyze user data in order to deliver services, content, and relevant advertising to you and protect against abuse. This includes:
    • Analyzing content and information (including emails, instant messages, posts, photos, attachments, and other communications) when you use our services. This allows us to deliver, personalize and develop relevant features, content, advertising and services
    • Linking your activity on third-party sites and apps with information we have about you
    • Providing anonymized and aggregated reports to other parties regarding user trends
  • We’ve joined Verizon. By joining Verizon, Oath and its affiliates may share the information we receive among Verizon. Learn more about Verizon’s privacy practices.
  • New information regarding personalization. We’ve included new information explaining how we combine data among our services and across your devices and Oath accounts. This allows us to provide more personalized content and services.
  • We’ve updated user choices. We’ve provided additional information about your choices when using our services, and given you control in our Privacy Controls section.
     

What You Need to Do

We have designed these changes to help improve your experience with Oath and its brands. To review and agree to the new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, please click the button below. These changes go into effect as soon as you consent.



Review and agree now

Please note that although our services will continue to be available under the existing terms for now, you will eventually need to agree to the new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy in order to continue to use our services. If you have any questions or need additional help, please refer to this link.

Thank you for your continued loyalty and support.

Sincerely,
Oath



#6 hamluis

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 11:31 AM

But...what (specifically) about this EULA concerns you (as has been previously asked by Brian)?

 

If there is nothing specific that you can assert as a point of worry...then why are you worrying about the EULA?

 

Louis



#7 britechguy

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 11:41 AM

And there's really nothing in that EULA that isn't pretty much "boilerplate" for most free e-mail providers.   I don't know of a single one that does not scan e-mail messages to target advertising (which I never see since I use an ad blocker).

 

I've been using Gmail since its earliest days and have always been aware that the messages are scanned by algorithms trying to figure out how to dispense targeted ads to me.   That doesn't even come close to "an invasion of privacy" in my book because the purpose is not nefarious (though it can be annoying) and it's not like a human being reading through anything in an effort to harm me in some way or to get "giggles" from doing so.

 

There is absolutely no such thing as private e-mail unless you use an encrypted service and, additionally, your recipients use the same service so that the message is never decrypted in storage.

 

I also don't believe that I, or my e-mail messages, are of any particular interest to anyone other than their intended recipients (and even that's doubtful at times).  Anything that enters cyberspace is subject to compromise, and easy compromise if a determined actor is involved.  It's a fact of life, and while I do what I can to preserve my privacy a part of that is never committing to bits and bytes anything I would never want anyone to see.  I don't even commit to paper anything I would never want anyone to see.  The telephone and, even better, face to face conversation have their purposes in terms of preserving privacy.  And, when it comes right down to it, the moment a secret is shared it is no longer a secret.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#8 sikntired

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 11:53 AM

Look at the Privacy Policy Update Summary. They also want to take away your right to become part of any "class action" and force arbitration. These are the highlights in what I deem unacceptable.

 

To capsulize it, they can use your content any way they see fit and you cannot sue them as they want you to agree to forced arbitration.

 

Am I being unrealistic? I'm just "sick and tired" (no pun intended) of everyone wanting to know everything. I would like to have some control over what is shared.


Edited by sikntired, 05 August 2018 - 11:58 AM.


#9 britechguy

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 12:05 PM

I seriously doubt that you will find either a paid or free e-mail service that does not include an arbitration clause.

 

Not that I don't agree with your feelings, but, yes, I do think you're being unrealistic.   As has been said repeatedly about "free" products and services in cyberspace, "If there's no up front cost then *you* are the product."   I really don't care what is collected about me that is used only in aggregate, and there's lots of that, but I care quite a bit about things such as, "Linking your activity on third-party sites and apps with information we have about you."

 

For all I know Google may have updated their EULA to include something like this, but I don't recall it being there way back at the dawn of Gmail/Google Accounts.  The one thing I don't willingly and knowingly grant any entity is the ability to do what is stated in that sentence above.  And I hasten to add that I missed that the first time because I was skimming, which is "my bad."


Edited by britechguy, 05 August 2018 - 12:05 PM.

Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#10 sikntired

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 01:26 PM

Well, now that I have blown off some steam, can anyone suggest an alternative to the 2nd part of my question?

 

It will also be imperative that I transfer all emails from Yahoo/AOL so I can then sever ties. Is there anything out there that would make this process easier??

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

edit for spelling


Edited by sikntired, 05 August 2018 - 01:27 PM.


#11 britechguy

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 01:31 PM

How are you currently accessing your existing e-mail?   Are you using webmail or an e-mail client.  This can make a huge difference as far as moving vast swaths of messages both in technique for doing so and ease of doing so.

 

None of these questions can be adequately answered sans relevant background information.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#12 sikntired

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 01:40 PM

How are you currently accessing your existing e-mail?   Are you using webmail or an e-mail client.  This can make a huge difference as far as moving vast swaths of messages both in technique for doing so and ease of doing so.

 

None of these questions can be adequately answered sans relevant background information.

Using webmail and curious as to whether there are any 3rd party utilities to make it easier. I think some time ago there was a utility called "truelink" not real sure of the name and it was free. I didn't find anything in a cursory search.



#13 britechguy

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 02:21 PM

If the idea is to have your existing e-mail available for archival checking, you might just want to get an e-mail client like Thunderbird, set the account up as POP (which I'd generally not recommend, but it's important here and Yahoo used to only support POP), and let all of your messages download into the client.  Then you can nuke the account itself via the web interface and the only thing will be that Thunderbird won't be able to access it again, as it will not exist, but you'll have a copy of all of your e-mail messages.

 

For myself, I do not keep massive archives of e-mail messages, at least not most of which I'd be unwilling to lose.  They're cyber-ephemera as a general rule and I try (though don't always succeed) in getting rid of virtually anything I can as soon as I'm done reading or replying.

 

What really matters here is the sheer volume involved.  It's pretty easy to forward say, a couple hundred messages to a new account.  The same cannot be said for 10,000 messages.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#14 sikntired

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Posted 05 August 2018 - 03:23 PM

Yeah, thanks for the thought. It would be a nightmare.



#15 cafejose

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 08:08 PM

The AT&T + Yahoo arrangement has been a confusing experience for me.  Sometimes signing in through the AT&T website for the AT&T account works, and sometimes it only brings up the Yahoo sign-in page automatically expecting the same login information to be entered again.  So far in the last several months, strictly using the Yahoo site has given me no trouble signing in either to the ATT accounts or the yahoo accounts.

 

One would guess not needing to be mentioned as email alternatives are GMX (whose name may now have been changed), Live/LiveMail/Hotmail/MSN/Outlook, which are the obvious and popular alternatives.  (other than also Gmail).






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