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I had to use public wifi, but i never typed any passwords and had two step on


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#1 justdavego1

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 08:54 PM

Friends i have a situation here. I am not very aware of how network and wifi security works but in my life i've always used few simple rules
- never join public wifi
- always use two step verification on all your accounts and emails

I recently moved from android to an iphone. I have very strong mobile carrier plan with unlimited mobile network with it. I've always used that mobile network when out of home, never logged to public wifi.
Thing is with iphone, as you probably know, there are some restrictions that wont allow you to do download/update bigger apps and software updates without wifi no matter what.
So since away from home when i realized that these restrictions are on on my device i was forced to use public wifi (family dinner restoraunt). I had to donwload a few bigger apps from the app store and to update my software (IOS) I was logged to gmail, facebook, apple id from the moment i bought my device month ago.
So, i logged to the public wifi, downloaded the apps, updated the software and forgot the network. I never typed in any passwords. I also never safe any passwords on my safari/browsers and i dont use keychain. Not to mention i have two step verification on everywhere, and also i have facebook notification that will infrom me if someone tries to log in from somewhere else.

So my question is, if there was a hacker, could he have somehow took my passwords as long as i never typed them while on the wifi? I know there is term called credential hijacking but i have no idea what it is. As far as i know apps and istes like facebook gmail have htppps or the way it's spelled that is supposed to protect against any stealing. If the hacker somehow steals my credentials, will two factor verification/authentication stop him or he will be able to log in from his device tricking facebook/gmail that its my own device. In other words is there any reason i should worry. I know the chances of hacker in the restoraunts are low but lets assume the worst scenario .. THanks :)



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#2 britechguy

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 09:38 PM

The use of public WiFi poses very little, if any, risk if one is not transmitting unencrypted information of a private nature over it.  When you are entering passwords they are encrypted by the client (your web browser) and the server that receives them whether the network stream itself as a whole is encrypted or not.   You don't want to be sending an e-mail message with your SSN, birth date, and driver's license number over unencrypted WiFi, but you don't want to send that kind of information by e-mail under any circumstances.

 

If you use two-step verification on all accounts then you will always know if anyone, including yourself, is attempting to log in.

 

You use far tighter security than I do, as I stick with the classic "one factor" verification with a strong password and have no hesitation about entering same in web browsers where https is being used (and I've not seen any password entry screen that doesn't in interfaces written since around 15 years ago).

 

There is a difference between being circumspect and being paranoid.  You have taken more than adequate precautions and have nothing to worry about, whether you used public WiFi or not.


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#3 Replicator

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 09:18 AM

Using any public Wifi exposes you to the risk of MITM attacks!

 

Anyone can purchase a WiFi Pineapple online to be used as a rouge access point, entice your device to connect, and control it from there.

 

Public WiFi represents one of the largest risks over networking today.

 

Why would you update iOS while out having dinner, when you can wait to get home over a secure network? Its not going to eat your kids if you dont!

 

Yes you should worry.....pineapples are only the start, scanning and information applications such as Wifite, Trity, Metasploit, Nmap, etc all pose a risk when your connected to an insecure network.

 

Your traffic may be encrypted over WiFi, but once access is gained, Im guessing your devices database is there for all to see in plain text.

Stored passwords may be hashed, but free software is readily available to convert them easily.

 

The local restaurant, the airport, McDonalds, Guest WiFi........are you sure of them all?


Edited by Replicator, 29 May 2018 - 09:23 AM.

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#4 britechguy

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 09:45 AM

 

 

Public WiFi represents one of the largest risks over networking today.

 

 

The local restaurant, the airport, McDonalds, Guest WiFi........are you sure of them all?

 

 

The amount of risk from using public WiFi for checking e-mail, browsing the web, etc., is vanishingly low.   As has been repeatedly stated, and not just by me, anyone who's doing serious hacking chooses their targets based on their potential dollar value, and the likelihood of randomly getting a high dollar target at your local McDonalds, coffee shop, WalMart, Lowes, etc., is very, very near to zero.

 

Breeding fear of public WiFi usage for doing things not of a sensitive nature is paranoia, pure and simple.   As for doing something like an iOS or Android update over public wifi, what's the value of the target and, more importantly, how likely is it that you'll have any access to it afterward?  Again, both very small.

 

Use common sense when sending information over public WiFi.  But avoiding all use of same is unnecessary overkill.

 

Also be aware that what's generally referred to as public WiFi that warrants worry is those access points with open access requiring no password.  Many local businesses use WPA2 security just like you do at home and have a customer password that gets rotated regularly.  While that's WiFi that's accessible to select members of the public, it's not public WiFi in any meaningful sense, as traffic over those connections is handled just the same way it is on any WiFi network that uses passwords and encryption on the LAN itself.


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     Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.

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#5 justdavego1

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 11:53 AM

I didn't downloaded the IOS update, i logged because i needed to download few apps that i needed for work and i wasn't able otherwise. The wifi in the restoraunt was password protected only given to custumers, not public hotspot or something.
There was no way i could way the time to return home to download those apps.

It already passed more than a week since i used the wifi for no more than 10 minutes. I understand chances of something happening are extremly low.
I just to know how this "session hijacking" works. From what i understand they simply sniff your cookies and "plant" them on their own browser. Again i never logged or even used any of my apps or safari while on that wifi. If they somehow hijacked the session, what i want to know is-
Will i understand something is going on?
Will i be logged out of my account, or it will simply countinue being logged on my device and on the new device, tricking facebook/gmail its only one device

MOST IMPORTANLTY, if i am hijacked, will two factor verifciation activate and stop the intruder or he will simply log in from his device/browser as if its me and he will foll the two step verification progress?
THanks again for the help :)



#6 justdavego1

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 11:55 AM

I am using two step verification using SMS to my to my number



#7 britechguy

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 03:26 PM

Can the hacker access your phone? There's your answer.

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#8 justdavego1

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 05:17 PM

britech guy no access at all. I just have very little understanding of how all this cookies/hijackings work, ive been once some time ago and that causes the paranoia.
I dont fear of someone stealing my password that much although i dont see a way someone can but still two factor is great at this point.
But if hijacking happens, lets assume regardless the minimal chances, if he takes those cookies from the traffic and lets stay uses them on his device-
what exactly will happen? Will both me and this guy be in my facebook or will he kick me out?
Will two factor authentication activate or it wont seents it will be tricked by the same cookies?
Will i see that other device is logged (because i often check if i see any unfamiliar devices) or it will be as if only mine is logged, since the cookies are hijacked?
How on earth will they brake the HTTPS securty as i read is unbreakble on gmail or facebook, also when we have in mind that i dont even access the apps or safari while i was on the wifi, i only started the app download and the left the phone, then i saw it was finished and terminated the connetion. Will facebook/gmail/apple id still send traffic/packages on the backgroud that can be interstepted for those like 10 minutes?
As i mentioned it was not public hotspot but family WIFI with password to which they give you the password if you are customer? Is that count for something?



#9 britechguy

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 07:10 PM

justdavego1,

 

          There are so many potential ways to "hijack" something that the term can have any one of multiple meanings.

 

           I am going to sign off with, "You really, really need to stop worrying about something that is so unlikely to happen again, even if you were not using two-factor authentication, which makes it even more unlikely to well-nigh impossible to recur."

 

           You (and I would say this about myself, had it happened to me) are clearly not even certain what, exactly, did happen in terms of your previous compromise.  Engaging in wild speculation on my part, which I will not do, does nothing but to encourage ruminating and undue paranoia.  Just let it go, exercise reasonable caution (which you're absolutely doing, in fact you're exercising high caution), and just go along with life.  Worrying about this is a complete and utter waste of time and emotional energy if you're exercising reasonable caution and engaging in generally safe interaction habits with regard to cyberspace.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 

     Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.

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#10 Replicator

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 08:42 AM

The amount of risk from using public WiFi for checking e-mail, browsing the web, etc., is vanishingly low.   As has been repeatedly stated, and not just by me, anyone who's doing serious hacking chooses their targets based on their potential dollar value, and the likelihood of randomly getting a high dollar target at your local McDonalds, coffee shop, WalMart, Lowes, etc., is very, very near to zero.

 

Any public WiFi is what we know as an 'unsecured network' and unfortunately, they are potential goldmines for men in the middle sniffing your traffic.

Allow me to explain.

 

Your device, whether it be a smartphone, laptop, tablet etc constantly sends out probe requests in an attempt to connect to a network which is on its PNL (preferred network list). This means a network it has connected to previously, and one it trusts!

It may be your home network, your workplace network or similar.

 

Sitting in the corner of the airport with my wifi Pineapple (rouge access point) i am able to send beacon responses to your devices probe requests telling it that i am the network you are probing for.

If your device is probing for lets say, 'ABC' network, I am able to spoof my responses by saying 'YES', i am 'ABC' network.

Your device says 'YES' I know you because i have connected to you before and I trust you......we perform the handshake, we hug each other, then your device connects to my rouge access point.

 

Now i am able to intercept all your traffic to and from the outside internet.

I can see which sites your browsing, which passwords your entering for any website, email accounts, banking web applications from your phone.....anything!

 

I understand that you might use commonsense on public Wifi, but the real danger is, most dont!

 

At the very least, if i have credential access to your email account, facebook account, ebay account, paypal account or even your online banking account, this is very, very valuable information for me that i can use to collect information to further my intended attack against you.

 

All because you trusted Public WiFi and thought that any real hacker would not bother with it.........how is this safe practice?

 

A simple MITM attack can advance further exploit possibilities such as Phishing, Social Engineering etc etc, simply because of the information you have allowed me to obtain thinking public wifi (unsecured networks) are safe.

 

Futhermore, if i can see your device is connected to 'Airport Guest' network, 'McDonalds Free WiFi' , whatever......I can send a Deauth packet to boot your device off it, and then reconnect to my rouge access point which is also spoofing these network SSID's and have you connect to me unknowingly.

 

Public Wifi is the biggest danger to your personal security today and anyform of network encryption wont help you once i force your device to connect to me as the MITM.

 

 

 

DISCLAIMER: I do not condone the use of these techniques for any illegal purposes.

I only use rouge access points for the purpose as a wifi network auditing platform in order to secure business networks!

Do not perform these operations on networks you do not have permission to access.......or you will go to prison.

 

They dont have to be 'big time' super skilled hackers targeting big time victims........the scary thing is, anyone with an ounce of knowledge can use these wifi tools to perform attacks on unsuspecting Public Wifi users.

Attacks across the internet from a remote location, or trying to hack into a WPA2 secured network are entirely different and require much greater time and skill......Im talking about LAN based attacks enabled by the insecurity of Public Wifi for attackers within its range.

 

You dont have to be an expert in Web Application/browser Hacking techniques such as Cross-Site Scripting, SQL Injection, Remote Code Execution etc.

 

We all have identities to protect, bank accounts to protect and other personal sensitive data to protect, no matter how small we may be.

 

Rep :wink:


Edited by Replicator, 31 May 2018 - 09:27 AM.

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#11 britechguy

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 10:14 AM

Rep,

 

        Not that I disagree one bit with any of the technical points you've made, but your idea of "potential goldmine" and mine are very distinctly different and we will simply have to agree to disagree.

 

        I am addressing the situation that the OP asked about, and there is absolutely no reason for any real concern in that situation.

 

        I am also willing to presume two things:

 

              1)  These days most people know enough not to do sensitive things like logging in (whether to Facebook, online banking, their e-mail, etc.) on a fully open network.

 

              2)  Most individuals who want "to get something" of any value know that the probability of their getting that at your random McDonalds, WalMart, coffee shop, airport, etc., is exceedingly small.  Way too many targets with zero probability of any meaningful payoff.

 

If you (any you) cannot accept either of those premises then you should assiduously avoid ever using an unsecured network.   I've been hopping on and off of them for as long as they've been in existence to do things like checking e-mail (with sessions already in progress, e.g., with my smartphone), doing a web search to find a restaurant with the cuisine I have a yen for near me, etc.   I have yet to be compromised.   My partner has been doing the same thing.   I have many clients who behave similarly.  I have yet to deal with a system conflagration that can be reasonably traced back to these sorts of usage of an open network.

 

Anything can be unsafe if you are sufficiently cavalier, and the potentially unsafe can be "OK" for specific uses if you are not.  That's my position, and I'm sticking to it.

 

Addendum:  I have also come to despise the term "public WiFi" because it is not a synonym for a WiFi network that's unsecured by a password and has not been for some time.  It is imperative that people know the difference between an unsecured network that's fully open to any passerby, and a secured network that is made accessible to specific members of the public by sharing of the network password.  I'd say that well over 50% of my connections to WiFi while away from home, locally at least, are made to the latter, not the former.  My local Arbys, ice cream shop, coffee shop, and a number of others all have password secured networks where they'll either post the password so anyone in the store can use it or you have to ask.  I'd still consider that a public network in standard English, but it's absolutely not an unsecured network.


Edited by britechguy, 31 May 2018 - 10:34 AM.
Addendum

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#12 MarkMackerel

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 08:20 PM

Rep,
 
        Not that I disagree one bit with any of the technical points you've made, but your idea of "potential goldmine" and mine are very distinctly different and we will simply have to agree to disagree.
 
        I am addressing the situation that the OP asked about, and there is absolutely no reason for any real concern in that situation.
 
        I am also willing to presume two things:
 
              1)  These days most people know enough not to do sensitive things like logging in (whether to Facebook, online banking, their e-mail, etc.) on a fully open network.
 
              2)  Most individuals who want "to get something" of any value know that the probability of their getting that at your random McDonalds, WalMart, coffee shop, airport, etc., is exceedingly small.  Way too many targets with zero probability of any meaningful payoff.
 
If you (any you) cannot accept either of those premises then you should assiduously avoid ever using an unsecured network.   I've been hopping on and off of them for as long as they've been in existence to do things like checking e-mail (with sessions already in progress, e.g., with my smartphone), doing a web search to find a restaurant with the cuisine I have a yen for near me, etc.   I have yet to be compromised.   My partner has been doing the same thing.   I have many clients who behave similarly.  I have yet to deal with a system conflagration that can be reasonably traced back to these sorts of usage of an open network.
 
Anything can be unsafe if you are sufficiently cavalier, and the potentially unsafe can be "OK" for specific uses if you are not.  That's my position, and I'm sticking to it.
 
Addendum:  I have also come to despise the term "public WiFi" because it is not a synonym for a WiFi network that's unsecured by a password and has not been for some time.  It is imperative that people know the difference between an unsecured network that's fully open to any passerby, and a secured network that is made accessible to specific members of the public by sharing of the network password.  I'd say that well over 50% of my connections to WiFi while away from home, locally at least, are made to the latter, not the former.  My local Arbys, ice cream shop, coffee shop, and a number of others all have password secured networks where they'll either post the password so anyone in the store can use it or you have to ask.  I'd still consider that a public network in standard English, but it's absolutely not an unsecured network.




Lets say for arguments sake that you are using public wifi and you do the things you normally would do. Now lets say that that the public wifi you are using is in fact my rogue AP. Lets say I'm a pretty skilled hacker, using kali etc.

Do you still feel completely safe?

Edited by MarkMackerel, 01 June 2018 - 08:20 PM.


#13 britechguy

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 08:31 PM

 

Lets say for arguments sake that you are using public wifi and you do the things you normally would do. Now lets say that that the public wifi you are using is in fact my rogue AP. Lets say I'm a pretty skilled hacker, using kali etc.

Do you still feel completely safe?

 

 

Yes, I do, or as safe as I normally do.  You're not going to see anything in my e-mail or my web searches or browsing that I would be overly concerned about.

 

I'm sorry, but decades (plural now) of hopping on and off of public (as in unsecured) WiFi networks across the country with no ill results breeds confidence in me that provided one is not dealing with sensitive information, which I never do, on such networks there is no risk to them that I am unwilling to take.

 

Others are perfectly free to feel entirely differently.   My experiences and observing those of myriad clients suggests to me that, on the whole, the risk from using public WiFi for innocuous tasks is just not worth worrying about.  Again, others are free to feel entirely differently.  I just have no rational nor experiential reasons to feel that "danger is lurking around every corner" from using public WiFi for the purposes that I use it.  Again, others are free to feel entirely differently.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 

     Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.

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#14 Replicator

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 07:30 AM

Hi Britech, a lot of the reasoning you put forward is true and i can relate to the stream your swimming.

 

Remember that rouge access does not need to 'hack' a secured network protected by WPA2 per se.

 

In essence the attack is spoofing that secured network and forcing your device to connect to what you believe is that secured network, when in reality, it is not.

 

Users today dont check what their phones are connecting too, and rarely do they practice secure internet protocol when utilizing them.

They see a free network and say, 'Great, how cool is this, I dont have to use my own data plan so lets go for it'

They will log into FB, check email & ebay accounts, perform online shopping with PayPal, update the OS as the OP pointed out and even perform critical banking transations.

 

You have had few issues because your more savvy than an average user, and know how to protect yourself......most dont!

 

One of the main issues that surprises me today with online security involves the huge rise in useage of mobile devices!

 

We all protect our PC's, Laptops and the home networks we connect to, with multiple layers of security (Antivirus, Firewalls, WPA2 encryption, VPN tunnels etc)

When it comes to mobile devices such as smartphones, tablets and public WiFi, we pay zero attention to Security. The majority of users dont even run a simple antivirus on their androids or iOS devices.

 

Here are some horror stories which simply scim the surface:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/29/londoners-wi-fi-security-herod-clause

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2645774/Cyber-attack-shopping-centre-Experts-warn-against-using-public-Wi-Fi-smartphones-tablets-shocking-complacency-online-habits-leaves-vulnerable-hackers.html


Edited by Replicator, 02 June 2018 - 07:52 AM.

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#15 britechguy

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 09:59 AM

Hi Britech, a lot of the reasoning you put forward is true and i can relate to the stream your swimming.

 

 

             So, then, what is the issue here?

 

             I have set a number of provisos that are both significant, but easy to comply with if one so chooses.

 

             The worst case scenario, which can be found for virtually anything in this life, not just the use of unsecured WiFi, is not the same as the typical scenario.

 

             If people are willing to exercise a little caution with regard to their use of public WiFi (and I'd say even of compromised public WiFi) they are most likely to come away entirely unscathed.  If they are unwilling, or unable, to do so for something with well-identified and well-publicized vulnerabilities, after being warned repeatedly, they're unlikely to do so with anything related to computer or smartphone use.

 

             You can lead horses to water, but you cannot make them drink.   You also don't say that water is likely to be fatal if consumed because there's a little turbidity present, either.

 

             Accurate risk assessment, and behavioral adjustment related to same, is key to getting safely through this world, which has many inherent uncertainties throughout.  Placing undue emphasis on certain uncertainties can easily draw focus away from other more pressing ones.  Making it seem as though "the sky is falling, or will fall imminently" as the result of using unsecured WiFi networks is not accurate risk assessment for the typical case.  It really is that simple.  That doesn't mean that one can cavalierly do whatever one might feel like doing at the moment on unsecured WiFi if said activity would reveal something that could potentially be used for significant gain by an unknown third party.

 

             With this, I'm done.  Each person has to do his or her own research, perform his or her own risk assessment to determine what they are or are not comfortable in doing, and proceed accordingly.

 

             There is no absolutely right or wrong answer here.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 

     Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.

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