Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

howto update the WinRE image on my system


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 Astara

Astara

  • Members
  • 11 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California
  • Local time:03:46 PM

Posted 20 May 2018 - 03:48 PM

I had to get a new computer ~ 6 months ago, and, of course, they (dell) wanted me to go with win10, but wearing my small-business hat, to purchase my workstation, they has the option to sell me win10 but with a free downgrade to win7 -- which I needed, as my intent was to transfer my

system image to the new computer.

 

That went off with a few bumps (like new computer's LSI (now avago) RAID drive would only allow you to configure the RAID if you booted in the UEFI secure mode -- but then the RAID would remaing as configured when you boot back into normal mode, but another bump I'm trying to iron out now (about 3-4 months after receiving the new computer, -- being able to boot into my windows repair environment .

 

I ran across a related block post on her, and mentioned that I couldn't begin  to start at step 1, as it assumed you could boot into the WinRE image to do further steps.  Trouble it is -- well I'm going to repost it here, so it can be answered in the forum rather than on the blog.  I may get some hints on the blog, but it's not the best format for individuals responding back and forth, So...

(originally posted as a response to this blog entry):

 

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/windows-7-recovery-environment-command-prompt/

 

Astara 3 hours ago

I need to go back a step further -- to the point before you boot off the winRE image.

 

How do I disassemble, update and create a new winRE image that I can put on my hard disk so when Windows wants to boot into the rescue environment, it will bring up my new copy?

 

I have IO drivers that I need to have present on the winRE image in order for it be useful to perform the most basic Win Recovery tasks -- like keyboard, mouse and USB drivers, "seeing" the built-in/internal, SAS/SATA based hard disks, hard disks where the system image is located (without which, the standard winRE sees nothing except the built-in optical drives and the ramdisk on which winRE is running from).

 

Those are the most basic pre-requirements needed to begin to follow the information in this article.
Ideally, I'd like to add a video driver from my card vendor to allow accelerated 2D graphics like scrolling (among others), but that would be a convenience, admittedly.

 

So how can I create and complete those "assumed" (at least in this article) prerequisites so I can being to follow the instructions in the rest of this article (including being able to run chkdsk and sfc (which, currently, I cannot).

 

Thanks -- and would really appreciate this.

 

Lately, it seems I keep running into solutions that assume I'm already in some place that not accessible to my starting position (like recovering a MS-forum account of >15 years that uses my email address without using a text-messge (or how to get MS to accept my text-message number for authentication (it tells me that they refuse to send a message to my text-phone -- which has been used for the same type of purpose with other vendors and websites to do the same thing -- i.e. it works). The point being that in order to access their recovery solution, I first need to find out why they won't take my text-number, so they send me a text code, to do the original thing I was trying to do...(like, in this case, run in the windows RE).

 

Thanks again,

Astara

(getting discouraged at constantly being told "you can't get there from here" (sigh).

 

 



BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 hamluis

hamluis

    Moderator


  • Moderator
  • 56,274 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Killeen, TX
  • Local time:05:46 PM

Posted 20 May 2018 - 04:20 PM

Basic Info On WinRE.

 

More Info.

 

Me...I would not bother with Windows tools...I would just clone/image  the drive, using 3d-party software, and save that image.

 

Louis


Edited by hamluis, 21 May 2018 - 07:42 AM.


#3 SleepyDude

SleepyDude

  • Malware Response Team
  • 3,083 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Portugal
  • Local time:11:46 PM

Posted 20 May 2018 - 05:37 PM

Hi,

 

Is the old computer accessible and working?


• Please do not PM me asking for support. Post on the forums instead it will increases the chances of getting help for your problem by one of us.
• Posts in the Malware section that are not replied to within 4 days will be closed. PM me or a moderator to reactivate.
• Please post your final results, good or bad. We like to know! Thank you!

 
Proud graduate of GeekU and member of UNITE
___
Rui

 
 


#4 Astara

Astara
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 11 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California
  • Local time:03:46 PM

Posted 20 May 2018 - 05:48 PM

Basic Info On WinRE.

 

More Info.

 

Me...I would not bother with Windows tools...I would just clon/image  the drive, using 3d-party software, and save that image.

 

Louis

What 3rd party SW does chkdsk and sfc?



#5 Chris Cosgrove

Chris Cosgrove

  • Moderator
  • 7,005 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland
  • Local time:11:46 PM

Posted 20 May 2018 - 05:57 PM

chkdsk is a Windows tool for checking the condition of an HDD and repairing at least some of the possible faults on one.

 

SFC (System File Checker) is another Windows tool that checks your OS for corrupted OS files and, if possible, repairs or replaces them. Neither of these systems can fix all possible problems.

 

What I think Hamluis was refering to was using 3rd party back up and imaging tools like Macrium Reflect and other tools like that, there are a number available both free and paid for. For further information on this subject have a look at the BC section on backup and imaging software -

 

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/f/238/backup-imaging-and-disk-management-software/

 

Chris Cosgrove


I am going to be away until about the 22nd October. Time on-line will be reduced and my internet access may be limited. PMs may not be replied to as quickly as normal !


#6 Astara

Astara
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 11 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California
  • Local time:03:46 PM

Posted 20 May 2018 - 05:59 PM

Hi,

 

Is the old computer accessible and working?

Old computer?...hmmm...I've been running off of the new computer since about Feb 1st...Why would I want to run on the old computer?

 

It's image was already transfered over to the new one and I've been running from it for 3-4 months now.

 

However, the WinRE image is an original win7-RE image (in the windows/system32 directory).  The new computer required new USB-3.0 drivers as well as a driver for the new raid drive...hmmmm....that my just be *any* Megaraid driver of recent vintage as I don't remember that being an issue when I brought the image on the new computer -- the USB -- yes... had USB kbd and mouse, so they stopped functioning.  That , and initially, had problem mounting an external HD via the new USB stack.

 

So the main sticking point(s) would be getting the new USB drivers and a recent megaraid driver into the WinRE (and later, on to an optical DVD to boot from when the internal boot won't work.)  Then I can boot into windows-recovery options and do things that require the HD be off line (like a chkdsk).

 

So I'm exactly sure if you meant the old computer or the computer that I replaced it with (am running off of). beause old one "died" (bios became corrupt and is soldered onto the MB).


Edited by Astara, 20 May 2018 - 06:04 PM.


#7 Astara

Astara
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 11 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California
  • Local time:03:46 PM

Posted 20 May 2018 - 06:03 PM

chkdsk is a Windows tool for checking the condition of an HDD and repairing at least some of the possible faults on one.

 

SFC (System File Checker) is another Windows tool that checks your OS for corrupted OS files and, if possible, repairs or replaces them. Neither of these systems can fix all possible problems.

 

What I think Hamluis was refering to was using 3rd party back up and imaging tools like Macrium Reflect and other tools like that, there are a number available both free and paid for. For further information on this subject have a look at the BC section on backup and imaging software -

 

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/f/238/backup-imaging-and-disk-management-software/

 

Chris Cosgrove

 

 

I know what the tools are... that's why I want to run them (check & repair HD for errors, and check system files & repair/replace).

 

Backing it up would only backup a drive that would still need to be chkdsk'd and sfc'd..(among other things), so that didn't quite make sense.



#8 Guest_Joe C_*

Guest_Joe C_*

  • Guests
  • OFFLINE
  •  

Posted 20 May 2018 - 08:00 PM

Third party programs like Macrium Reflect can do an image or clone your drive. You should do this with a second hard drive (preferably as an external drive) in case your drive fails or you get hit with something very nasty that destroys your data.

Personally I use Macrium Reflect myself and make a clone to an external drive. If my drive should fail for any reason, it's only a few minutes to pop the cloned drive in and continue as if nothing happened.

How often do you think you need to run check disk and the system file checker?

 

Edit:  you can use Macrium Reflect for free; home use. You should not make backups to your only hard drive that your Windows is on because if it fails or something nasty happens, it would be useless. Even a second hard drive inside your pc that's connected with your Windows is still vulnerable


Edited by Joe C, 21 May 2018 - 09:58 AM.


#9 Guest_Joe C_*

Guest_Joe C_*

  • Guests
  • OFFLINE
  •  

Posted 20 May 2018 - 08:53 PM

On another note, I highly suspect that when you installed Windows 7 in place of Windows 10, that the recovery partition was deleted and that may be the reason you can not access it. If you want to, you might be able to get the recovery operating system and drivers directly from Dell, but it probably will cost you anywhere from $20 to $30. for this dvd disk set. You'll need to contact Dell



#10 Astara

Astara
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 11 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California

Posted 21 May 2018 - 12:34 PM

Third party programs like Macrium Reflect can do an image or clone your drive. You should do this with a second hard drive (preferably as an external drive) in case your drive fails or you get hit with something very nasty that destroys your data.
Personally I use Macrium Reflect myself and make a clone to an external drive. If my drive should fail for any reason, it's only a few minutes to pop the cloned drive in and continue as if nothing happened.
How often do you think you need to run check disk and the system file checker?
 
Edit:  you can use Macrium Reflect for free; home use. You should not make backups to your only hard drive that your Windows is on because if it fails or something nasty happens, it would be useless. Even a second hard drive inside your pc that's connected with your Windows is still vulnerable

 
Oi!...I really wish for a unix tool that could do incremental backups.  Windows is so primitive in comparison.
On linux I have daily incremental backups of each partition -- to another set of disks on the same computer, so I can usually restore a disk state back to a given day for the past month, or back to within 2-3 days two months ago or to within a week for three to four months ago. My scripts there prune the backup dir for each partition to remove some incrementals as time goes back, believing if I ever needed to restore back 2-4 months ago, I wouldn't need a specific day.
 
W/windows, I suffer through weekly image backups the windows backup mechanism.  Restoration is not as simple as popping in another disk, but I don't need to do it very often.  Given the size of the image (now, slightly under 700GB for a 980gB, I usually only keep the backup for the previous week.  Restoring it over the net  takes about 3-8  hours depending on how big the restore image is (another reason, that besides the other drivers, I need to also add my newer network card to the restore image.
 
The Win backups are made to the same backup partition that the linux box uses so for the Win-machine they are "off-system", but not off-network nor offsite (this IS a home network).
 
As for how often I need to run chkdsk or sfc?:  chkdsk -- not as much as sfc, but maybe about as much as I would need to restore
a disk image;  sfc -- more often than any data restoration.
 
 

On another note, I highly suspect that when you installed Windows 7 in place of Windows 10, that the recovery partition was deleted and that may be the reason you can not access it. If you want to, you might be able to get the recovery operating system and drivers directly from Dell, but it probably will cost you anywhere from $20 to $30. for this dvd disk set. You'll need to contact Dell

 
Nep.  I took the cheapest disk option: a 5x500gB RAID5 of Black 10K SATA's (2.5") w/3yr warranty, that came with the system and removed them.  They never made it past the license acceptance page.  I replaced them with a 4x480GB RAID10 of  SSDs w/a 10-yr-warranty.
 
I didn't actually "install" win7. 
 
I bought another 960GB disc to transfer the old system image to via the external SATA port via another machine (same model) via cygwin's 'dd'.  The new system has no external SATA but was able to hang it off the SATA controller inside the new system in place of a 2nd optical drive.  I booted from the 960GB SSD and after configuring the 4disk RAID10 (w/capacity 960GB) and installing machine-specific drivers (USB3, new RAID card, Intel chipset drivers),  I did another disk-to-disk copy using cygwin-dd (that was on the 960GB) then booted to the new RAID10 set.
 
FWIW, after Vista (maybe in, sorta skipped that release), you don't need a separate partition for the recover parition (though it might be safer in some situations, but hasn't been an issue yet).  It is located inside a 'wim' (windows image format) file in
C:/Windows/System32/system32/Recovery/winRE.wim (about 227MB in win7SP1).  That's the file I need to update w/new drivers and replace. 
 
Once that is done I'll be able to use the on-disc recovery environment again.
 
Copying those drivers to a win7SP1 install image (aka Slipstreaming) to burn to a new DVD so I can have a ready Win7sp1 Repair and install disk w/the correct drivers for my machine.
 
But the 1st priority is updating / replacing that on-disk repair image.
 
I was just thinking (after looking at the 2nd link (More Info.) in hamluis's post, that one thing to try might be to try to identify the needed driver files from the win10 RE-image and copying those to a win7RE image OR copying the win7 data files/binaries to a win10 RE-image.  Problem w/that might be figuring out which files allow the win10 image to boot and access HW on the new machine, and making sure that any sfc operations only draw from win7 binaries.  
 
Might just be safer to copy the new drivers to a win7RE image.
 
As for getting install and recovery disks from Dell -- they have download options now that don't cost money but only your system's service code so you can only download those images you have entitlement for.
 
I think I might be able to generate a new winRE image if the pointer from hamluis's post (points to process for win10) also works for win7 (crossing fingers).  Otherwise the main question about how to extract the win7RE image, install new drivers onto it, and recreate the wim file and have the built-in recovery option use the new file is still a problem....
 
*innocent look*  But how likely would it be the win10 instructions for doing this wouldn't work for win7 (assuming proper
binary substitutions)....*gulp*...
(sigh)



#11 Guest_Joe C_*

Guest_Joe C_*

  • Guests
  • OFFLINE
  •  

Posted 21 May 2018 - 02:10 PM

yes, Macrium Reflect does do incremental backups and allows you to create and change partition sizes to your back up medium. Just doing a clone is quicker and easier for myself, I use a SSD drive so it doesn't take much time. I usually do a "clean" install on any new system I get, I don't need to run into issues from an older install from a different pc. (kis)



#12 Astara

Astara
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 11 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California

Posted 21 May 2018 - 06:01 PM

It sounds rather work intensive.  When I backup a linux partition, I use a backup level 0-9.  0=all, 1, everything since previous 0, 2 everything since previous '1', etc.   While a full backup may take a few hours, incrementals are usually under 5 minutes -- and i all happens automatically with out me touching anything.

 

To restore, I have to restore, usually 3, sometime 4 backups and I'll have a complete image.  My disks for backup are RAID, so they go reasonably fast.  For small partitions its done in under 5 minutes, for larger one, can take a couple of hours -- and these are RAID to RAID copies -- but not image-disc copies.   Does your image backup allow restoring from different days, or do you just

keep 1 backup?  What if you don't discover the problem until a few weeks later -- can you restore?

 

As for performing a clean install -- the over 100 apps that would need to be reinstalled make that a daunting task.

More than once i've needed a file or directory from "yesterday", but if you don't due daily image backups, that would be impossible.

 

Sometimes I've wanted backups from 3-4 months ago (rare) to try to fine out when a bug was introduced.

 

Image backups take alot of space to store and copy...

 

But this topic wasn't meant to be about backup -- it was about creating a new winRE image that works on a new machine that has some incompatible drivers with the original Win7 WinRE image (as well as the win7sp1 install disks).

 

I almost didn't check out hamluis's send linke as it was only labelled "more info"....but it might be the best deal...dunno.



#13 Guest_Joe C_*

Guest_Joe C_*

  • Guests
  • OFFLINE
  •  

Posted 21 May 2018 - 06:25 PM

That the difference between Windows and Linux, over time Windows get loaded with lord knows what kinda crap, With a new pc and even after several years on an older pc a nice clean and shiny fresh Windows works wonders! lol :lmao:



#14 Astara

Astara
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 11 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:California
  • Local time:03:46 PM

Posted 13 October 2018 - 06:02 PM

On another note, I highly suspect that when you installed Windows 7 in place of Windows 10, that the recovery partition was deleted and that may be the reason you can not access it. 

no no no...

It's the same disk.  

 

Please note -- this isn't primarily about backup.  It's about having the native recover environments in win7 be able to

still run on the new machine -- which means they need some updated drivers -- first and foremost, for USB3, since w/o that

the new machine's USB KB+mouse are dead.

 

Second would be to get the builtin intel disk controller to work, as I think it also manages the optical drives so I can access

those devices when booting off a Win7 install disk.

 

The main problem is that the current RE doesn't have updated drivers -- neither on the one in the computer

(which boots up just fine, but has no USB KBD or mouse support) but can be used with a PS1 keyboard (a bit constraining).

 

I sorta lost interest in this, as it went off into areas that were really far away from what I was trying to do -- which was update

winRE images from win7SP1 to handle the newer hardware.  Never meant to go off into backup solutions, which was really

going away from getting the native RE re-enabled.

 

Thanks!



#15 JohnC_21

JohnC_21

  • Members
  • 24,432 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male

Posted 13 October 2018 - 06:15 PM

The computer only has USB 3 support? The reason I ask is because Windows 7 SP1 has native USB 2.0 support for USB keyboards and mice. If you only have USB 3 there are youtube videos explaining how to stream USB 3 drivers into the Windows install disk. 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users