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Upgrading computer


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#1 Fastfox57

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 07:35 PM

Hello all I have an asus essentio 1730-01, and would need better specs to run a software, the computer currently has 

  • Athlon II X2 220 (2.80 GHz)
  • 4 GB DDR3
  • 1 TB HDD
  • Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit
  • ATI Radeon 3000 IGP

what I'm interested in using has minimum/recommended

 

windows 7, 8.1, or 10 64-bit      /    windows 10 64-bit professional

 

intel or amd 64-bit processor, 2.4ghz or faster   /   intel i7 or xeon e3, 3.2ghz or faster

 

opengl 3.2 support with 1gb memory. no onboard graphics.    / nvidia quadro graphics with 4gb(or higher) dedicated memory.

 

 

 

It does seem like it'd be easier and better to buy a new computer or build one from scratch as i'm interested in gaming as well as that specfic software requirement but as i'm working on a somewhat limited budget think it would be a better idea to just upgrade what I currently have.

 

So for starters I need to upgrade my ram which should be simple enough as long as it is ddr3 correct? also any suggestions on brands or specific item to get? i've  never tinkered with a computer before.

 

Next and really the main reason why i'm making this post is for the graphic card which I'm not familiar with at all and would like input and suggestions for, along with the graphic card I would need to upgrade my power supply I believe correct? I think it is currently only a 300w but don't know for certain. Thanks for the help!


Edited by Fastfox57, 06 March 2018 - 07:44 PM.


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#2 CyberSec_ET

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 12:24 AM

Its an AMD Build, so you can't upgrade it with a intel processor (either i7 or xeon).

Because the motherboard and cpu are both AMD.

 

https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2388344,00.asp?tab=Specs



#3 jonuk76

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 02:24 AM

The best CPU that you're likely to be able to use without a motherboard change, is something from the Phenom II range - probably X4, possibly the X6.  It would be sensible to get the exact model of your motherboard and check compatible CPU's on the Asus website.  Phenom's aren't available to buy now apart from used, so check Ebay etc.  They're not going to be near the "recommended" spec chips in your post, but will at least be faster than your existing processor, and they can be found quite cheap.  If you go this route you will likely need to upgrade the cooler as they generate more heat than the dual core in your system currently.

 

Again for a GPU your best bet might be to find something used.  For one graphics card prices are really, really high at the moment.  And I really wouldn't recommend spending a lot of money on a high end GPU for a system as old as that.  Browsing Ebay I've seen things like GTX 770's, which were good powerful cards of a few years ago, going for like £50 (in the UK).  Something like that would need a larger PSU (a 500w+, and preferably 600w, high quality branded PSU recommended).  I think 4 Gb Quadro's from your "recommended" list may be expensive however.

 

For RAM it's best (but not required) to get matching modules.  This gives the best chance of compatibility.  Depending on what motherboard you've got and the free slots available, the easiest thing to do may be to just replace the RAM with newer, larger modules.  If you have no free slots then that decision is made for you as the only option then is to replace.


Edited by jonuk76, 07 March 2018 - 10:16 AM.

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#4 Fastfox57

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 04:51 PM

The best CPU that you're likely to be able to use without a motherboard change, is something from the Phenom II range - probably X4, possibly the X6.  It would be sensible to get the exact model of your motherboard and check compatible CPU's on the Asus website.  Phenom's aren't available to buy now apart from used, so check Ebay etc.  They're not going to be near the "recommended" spec chips in your post, but will at least be faster than your existing processor, and they can be found quite cheap.  If you go this route you will likely need to upgrade the cooler as they generate more heat than the dual core in your system currently.

 

Again for a GPU your best bet might be to find something used.  For one graphics card prices are really, really high at the moment.  And I really wouldn't recommend spending a lot of money on a high end GPU for a system as old as that.  Browsing Ebay I've seen things like GTX 770's, which were good powerful cards of a few years ago, going for like £50 (in the UK).  Something like that would need a larger PSU (a 500w+, and preferably 600w, high quality branded PSU recommended).  I think 4 Gb Quadro's from your "recommended" list may be expensive however.

 

For RAM it's best (but not required) to get matching modules.  This gives the best chance of compatibility.  Depending on what motherboard you've got and the free slots available, the easiest thing to do may be to just replace the RAM with newer, larger modules.  If you have no free slots then that decision is made for you as the only option then is to replace.

Just checked and the motherboard says M4A78LT-M/CM1730/DP_MB.  as for the RAM any suggestion on modules? appears theres one ASint 4gb 1600, with 3 open slots. so in terms of graphic cards are there any limitations or requirements to check for or as long as it meets the price range as specs i need?

Would I see a big difference if I were to switch out the cpu? I hadn't originally intended to but if the price isn't horrible and it's a decent upgrade i'd be willing to. I do not really intend to sink a lot of money into this as i figured it was limited due to the motherboard as you pointed out, but it would be significantly cheaper to just upgrade to what I need right now as opposed to starting a new computer even if it means having to get something else down the road if I do want something nicer at that point due to my current limited budget.

What is a realistic price range for me to do all those things? I had originally figured around $300 but I could be completely off on that number   

As for the "recommended specs" I think that is for if I were to fully utilize the software but as i'm using more towards the basic side of things for learning purposes I think it should be fine, as this is a more detailed description from the website

Operating Systems

CNC Software continues to review the operating system (OS) requirements for Mastercam with a goal of providing the best possible user experience for our customers.

We recommend using Windows 10 64-bit Professional editions. While Mastercam may run on other Windows editions (such as Home Edition) or virtual environments (such as Parallels for Mac), it has not been tested on these configurations and is therefore not supported.
Mastercam X7 MU2 was the last release to support Windows 7 32-bit OS.

 

Processor

The processor speed will impact how fast the software will calculate and complete tasks. With each release, more and more aspects of Mastercam are becoming multi-core processor aware. Toolpath calculation and Simulation will generally run faster with a multi-core processor. We typically see a 50% reduction in toolpath calculation time with the latest Intel i7 or Xeon processors.

 

Memory

When Mastercam uses all available RAM it switches to using virtual memory space, which is stored on the hard drive, and will dramatically slow the system down. We recommend a minimum of 8GB memory. For large toolpath generation and simulation we recommend 32 GB of RAM.

 

Video

When purchasing a new computer for Mastercam, one of the most important areas is the video card.

We recommend an NVIDIA Quadro card with 4 GB or more of memory. Other graphics cards can be used, but they must offer full OpenGL 3.2 support (typically manufactured by AMD/ATI). We have seen some issues using AMD/ATI Radeon™ graphics cards.

We do not recommend or support the use of onboard graphics found with some PC configurations. These do not generally have the capability to drive graphics intensive applications such as Mastercam.

Make sure you are using up-to-date drivers from your card manufacturer. We often see issues that are resolved with updated video drivers. The driver version can have a great impact on how the card performs.

The latest drivers for NVIDIA and ATI/AMD can be found at the online links. We recommend using the automatic detect feature to detect which video card is installed. Registered Mastercam customers can find more information on configuring the graphics card in the Mastercam knowledge base article.

Storage

We have found that one of the best computer upgrades is to invest in a Solid State Drive (SSD). These drives are now priced at a point which makes them a good investment. Many of our test systems employ a smaller primary SSD for the OS and installed applications with a second large capacity conventional drive for data.


Edited by Fastfox57, 07 March 2018 - 05:01 PM.


#5 MadmanRB

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 05:29 PM

Ehh right now is a terrible time to invest in a computer with GPU prices up to wazoo and memory also up its probably best to wait.

It may be a few months, it may be a year.

If your budget is small you are going to want to wait.

I know you need certain things but its just a terrible year for computers so far and its only going to get worse.

Maybe gwetting a phenom will be good but that is as far as you can get.

$300 is too small of a budget, save up over the next year.


Edited by MadmanRB, 07 March 2018 - 05:29 PM.

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#6 Fastfox57

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 05:41 PM

Ehh right now is a terrible time to invest in a computer with GPU prices up to wazoo and memory also up its probably best to wait.

It may be a few months, it may be a year.

If your budget is small you are going to want to wait.

I know you need certain things but its just a terrible year for computers so far and its only going to get worse.

Maybe gwetting a phenom will be good but that is as far as you can get.

$300 is too small of a budget, save up over the next year.

I would love to wait but if I need to spend more to get the necessary specs then that's just the way it is would it be more towards $500? I'm trying to take take some classes/get certified to advance my job so it'd most likely pay off it's just a partial lack of funds right now that's deterring me , I just figured if it was significantly more than that then it'd probably be worth just getting something new altogether  I didn't know what a realistic number is for those kind of specs, What would you expect for upgrading vs buying something new that would be better? price wise. 



#7 MadmanRB

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 07:36 PM

Even $500 is too low, try $700

 

Yes the market is that bad right now, markups are all over the place and for the machine you want to get its going to cost you.

Especially something that can do gaming and media production, it will not be cheap sorry to say.

 

As for upgrading what you have, I am afraid for what you want any upgrade you want is out of the question as you will not see much of a performance upgrade on that kind of hardware for what you want.

 

Sorry its just how things are right now, if you wanted to build this time last year you would have scored but right now the PC market is just too bad.

 

Unless you go used its not going to matter right now for your needs.


Edited by MadmanRB, 07 March 2018 - 07:59 PM.

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#8 Fastfox57

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 08:24 PM

Even $500 is too low, try $700

 

Yes the market is that bad right now, markups are all over the place and for the machine you want to get its going to cost you.

Especially something that can do gaming and media production, it will not be cheap sorry to say.

 

As for upgrading what you have, I am afraid for what you want any upgrade you want is out of the question as you will not see much of a performance upgrade on that kind of hardware for what you want.

 

Sorry its just how things are right now, if you wanted to build this time last year you would have scored but right now the PC market is just too bad.

 

Unless you go used its not going to matter right now for your needs.

Yes sadly I didn't attempt to do this last year, As for used I don't find the idea to be  such a big deal as long as the parts deliver what's expected of course but I would prefer new. may not be a bad idea though with prices being what they currently are. The $700 ballpark is for what, upgrading, or a flat out new build? would just buying a desktop outright possibly be cheaper as compared to building at the moment due to increased indiviual prices? I'm just trying to figure out the most ideal thing to go with and what it's going to cost me



#9 MadmanRB

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 08:36 PM

Typically building is cheaper than pre builts, or a better option than pre builts.

Pre builts are a mixed bag and most of them are best if you get the occasional sale.

 

Here is a PC part picker list I cobbled together:

 

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XtQ8dX

 

Its not the most ideal parts list but that Ryzen 5 1600 is very ideal for video editing

 

You will not be able to get a good GPU for a long time and you will need a GPU as that processor doesnt have a on board graphics chip on it (apu)

 

the 1030 is right now the best GPU you can buy brand new unless you go used or refurbished.

 

The only thing I didnt add in was the cost of windows but if you got a USB stick with at least 8GB of space you are in business.

 

Sure its still going to be more than $500 but alas there is little to do, the market for PC builders is messed up and I frankly think pre builts are junk.


Edited by MadmanRB, 07 March 2018 - 08:40 PM.

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#10 jonuk76

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 09:08 PM

Really what they are recommending for the software is a fairly high spec workstation.  Xeon, 32 Gb RAM, 4 Gb+ Quadro, which is not going to come cheap.

 

They're implying that it will run on less than perfect specs though, but you might run into performance issues with more complex work - at least that's my reading of it.

 

As a challenge then, let's have a look at what you could potentially get as an upgrade (used prices estimated based on completed/sold Ebay listings)

 

Phenom II X6 1075T 6 Core 3.0 Ghz CPU (used) - $80  (Motherboard CPU Support List)

4 x 4 Gb Crucial DDR3-1333 mhz (used) - $62

Quadro K2200 4 Gb - from $170 but vary a lot (alternatively the GTX 770 4 Gb version is much faster, but not a "professional" card, and seem to sell for around $150 on Ebay US)

Cryorig M9a CPU Cooler (New) - $20

Seasonic S12 II 520w PSU (New) - $30 (after rebate) (Note 600w or above recommended for GTX 770.  The 620w version of the S12 II is one option.  Yes they're old designs now but so is the computer they are being used on and they are solidly built and infinitely better than some no name junk.


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#11 MadmanRB

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 09:13 PM

I meam that would do but the phenom II platform is quite old now and may not be that much of a jump for a good performance machine.

It would be cheaper yes but in terms of power... eh.

 

I mean it would be okay but its still a old platform.


Edited by MadmanRB, 07 March 2018 - 09:15 PM.

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#12 jonuk76

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 09:29 PM

Yep it's debateable.  I suppose it's a case of making the best of what you have already.  Another possible route would be pick up a refurbed Dell Precision or something.  Some even come with Quadro GPU's already...  Can offer a lot of bang for the buck if you find the right deal and avoid the rubbish.


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#13 MadmanRB

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Posted 07 March 2018 - 09:52 PM

I mean dont get me wrong the Phenom II range was very good for its time, I had a X6 once, loved it :D

 

But its been far outmatched by modern CPU's


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#14 Fastfox57

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 07:57 PM

Typically building is cheaper than pre builts, or a better option than pre builts.

Pre builts are a mixed bag and most of them are best if you get the occasional sale.

 

Here is a PC part picker list I cobbled together:

 

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XtQ8dX

 

Its not the most ideal parts list but that Ryzen 5 1600 is very ideal for video editing

 

You will not be able to get a good GPU for a long time and you will need a GPU as that processor doesnt have a on board graphics chip on it (apu)

 

the 1030 is right now the best GPU you can buy brand new unless you go used or refurbished.

 

The only thing I didnt add in was the cost of windows but if you got a USB stick with at least 8GB of space you are in business.

 

Sure its still going to be more than $500 but alas there is little to do, the market for PC builders is messed up and I frankly think pre builts are junk.

If I were to go with that build would I be limited in anyway for upgrading it? I know that it would obviously cost more but would it be more ideal/worth it to start off with the 1050ti as compared to the 1030 even if it's double the price ? Is there space and would  there be any major benifit to adding in a ssd ontop of the regular hard drive for starting it up and whatnot? not sure on how big a difference it'd make. Just curious though I know that would kind of blow my original budget out of the water at making it closer to $900 probably.


Edited by Fastfox57, 08 March 2018 - 08:16 PM.


#15 Fastfox57

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 08:07 PM

Really what they are recommending for the software is a fairly high spec workstation.  Xeon, 32 Gb RAM, 4 Gb+ Quadro, which is not going to come cheap.

 

They're implying that it will run on less than perfect specs though, but you might run into performance issues with more complex work - at least that's my reading of it.

 

As a challenge then, let's have a look at what you could potentially get as an upgrade (used prices estimated based on completed/sold Ebay listings)

 

Phenom II X6 1075T 6 Core 3.0 Ghz CPU (used) - $80  (Motherboard CPU Support List)

4 x 4 Gb Crucial DDR3-1333 mhz (used) - $62

Quadro K2200 4 Gb - from $170 but vary a lot (alternatively the GTX 770 4 Gb version is much faster, but not a "professional" card, and seem to sell for around $150 on Ebay US)

Cryorig M9a CPU Cooler (New) - $20

Seasonic S12 II 520w PSU (New) - $30 (after rebate) (Note 600w or above recommended for GTX 770.  The 620w version of the S12 II is one option.  Yes they're old designs now but so is the computer they are being used on and they are solidly built and infinitely better than some no name junk.

It does appear that that would more than meet atleast the minimum specs, and at around $400 would be significantly cheaper than starting from scratch would that essentially reach the limit of what's left over which would pretty much just be the motherboard at that point huh? in the referenced build below coming in at about double that due to probably minor tweaks to the build how much better would I be just doing that performance wise in terms of games as it appears to more than be able to handle the initial software I had originally intended this to be used for especially since I'd probably only use that software for a couple months, thinking more long term.

At that point if I ever wanted to I could further upgrade that one as compared to being stuck with the pretty much topped out one of this with old parts in it too. As for your refurbished dell precision comment there does appear to be a decent selection to choose from, any experience with refurbished ones yourself? most of them do appear to be slightly or a couple hundred dollars cheaper than the individual parts new. 

know of any other good budget builds?($<1000)






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