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Speaking ill of the dead: controversial figures who died recently


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#1 MadmanRB

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:10 AM

I am making separate thread from this one:

 

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/671344/the-rev-billy-graham-passes-at-age-99/

 

As i did have a lot to say about this man, but in short:

 

I didnt like him

 

 

I feel Reverend Graham was a loathsome man in my not so humble opinion.

 

I basically had the same attitude with Charles Manson and Fidel Castro.

 

Granted there is a big gulf between someone who was often times the symbol of homophobia and antisemitism and a mass murderer and a dictator but sometimes I still value having a honest opinion about the recent dead.

 

There is a stigma of "not speaking ill of the dead" one that sometimes I am willing to break especially for people who died recently and their baggage was out for all to see.

 

Some people deserve brutal and blunt opinions, even the dead and its never something i shied away from.

 

But hey what are your thoughts?

 

Willing to defy conventions and also speak ill of the dead?


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#2 NickAu

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:24 AM

As long as we speak the truth I do not see a problem with it.


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#3 MadmanRB

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 12:27 AM

Indeed, but not out of anger mind you.

Its one thing to be honest, but hatred and anger is not my intentions.

 

 

Well maybe a bit of spite but even that is under control here :D


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#4 Bezukhov

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 01:56 AM

Heaven held a little surprise for Billy Graham, once he got there.

Panicked Billy Graham Realizes He Took Wrong Turn Into Heavens Largest Gay Neighborhood

https://www.theonion.com/panicked-billy-graham-realizes-he-took-wrong-turn-into-1823199623
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#5 NickAu

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 03:53 AM

 
Getting away from Reverend Graham who now knows the ultimate truth and is facing his maker for better or worse.
 
 
Heres a question.
Would speaking ill of the dead rules still apply to Nikolas Cruz the guy who shot up the Florida school killing 17, were he dead? or Stephen Paddock the Vegas shooter, and if not why not.


 

 

Please note I am not for 1 second putting Reverend Graham in the same basket as those 2 Reverend Graham had his beliefs and is entitled to them right or wrong , but I just want to know if theres a line and where it is?
 
 


Edited by NickAu, 23 February 2018 - 03:56 AM.

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#6 Hareen

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 04:55 AM

I have low regard for people who sell religion.

 

Let it be this guy or some other guy.

 

The practices of religion are purely money these days, so enough said.



#7 britechguy

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 09:10 AM

I think that, "Speak no ill of the dead," applies to pretty much everyone and, much like funerals, is not to benefit the dead but the living.   And not for the reason that they can't fight back, either, but because it is so easy for people to become a mob, and there are plenty of instances of same particularly in situations where someone who the world is better off without has died and celebrations filled with venom ensued.

 

I don't think most people follow the rule strictly, either, but what might be said in private conversations among friends is, well, what might be said in private among friends.


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#8 SuperSapien64

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 03:39 PM

@ MadmanRB

 

I didn't like Billy Graham either but I didn't want sound rude so I didn't tear into the man, but yeah he wasn't really a good person kinda like Jerry Farwell. But you can just look up information on both of those people they both have very bigoted histories. Jerry Farwell for example was very opposed to the Civil Rights Movement (pro segregation) during the sixties and seventies.



#9 r.a.d.

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 04:29 PM


Jerry Fallwell backed George Wallace regarding segregation, and yeah, liked political platforms. Graham wasn't a proponent of segregation and seemed to dodge those political platforms.  Short read below regarding segregation:

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Billy-Graham-and-many-other-evangelicals-of-the-time-choose-not-to-lend-a-voice-or-have-any-involvement-during-the-Civil-Rights-Movement

Another article (short) about what he could have more effectively accomplished in governmental areas with his influence but didn't, which (in my mind) keeps the needed separation between churches and states:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/feb/21/billy-graham-wrong-side-history
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#10 The-Toolman

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 10:53 AM

[Snip]

[britechguy post# 7]

 

"much like funerals, is not to benefit the dead but the living."


 

 

I Agree. :thumbup2: 


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#11 Beel

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 12:21 PM

Why don't we all just let the deceased good or bad RIP?



#12 The-Toolman

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 02:41 PM

[Beel post#11]

Why don't we all just let the deceased good or bad RIP?

 

Human Nature.


I'm grumpy because I can be not because I'm old.

 

The world is what you make of it, if it doesn't fit, you make alterations.

 

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.  (Mark Twain)


#13 r.a.d.

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 12:27 PM

I'm done, dead and gone
Hope nobody speaks ill
But they have that right
To voice their bitter pill

Most only try their best
From a first tiny breath
With hope to make good
In their life before death
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#14 JohnnyJammer

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 10:54 PM

Well when a religious person starts shooting their mouth off about dead homo sexuals and such then they are open slather when they die to the same vitriol they gave to the people they didnt like.

One thing i absolutely hate about religion is, they often want the right to discriminate against ANYONE but when it comes to discrimination against them they hate it, see the image below.

EDIT:Forgot to mention and Nick might know, but our new deputy PM wrote an article many years ago basically saying that he loves AID's because its going to kill all the lesbians and gays and let god do the work for us.

He retracts now but a leopard doesnt change its spots.

 

26LpIml.jpg


Edited by JohnnyJammer, 28 February 2018 - 10:56 PM.


#15 NickAu

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 11:44 PM

Yes, Jammer.

 

 

 

When somebody asks me " what did you think of so and so?" Sometimes rather than tell then I just say we didn't see eye to eye and sometimes I tell them what I think of the person, it all depends on who the person in question is.

 

Heres an example.

 

Craig Whitall family speak out after crash with Falkholt family

I understand he was their son brother father who is also dead and that they are also mourning both him and the other victims but how do you sugar coat what he did? And should we even try.

 

Freedom of speech is great but sometimes you have to hear things you may not agree with, Like I said as long as its the truth its ok and sometimes the truth is not nice but it is the truth.


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