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HP Envy Will not boot\post after Windows 10 Update reboot


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#1 nbstl68

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 02:12 PM

I have an HP ENVY Desktop

Never had an issue with it or anything unusual at all.

I let Windows 10 run the latest update and went to bed.  Next morning black screen non-responsive.  I reboot.  No beeps at all at start up.  All peripherals power up, but screen never switches from blank\black then the monitor flashes No connection. or something like that, (It is a monitor message, not from the computer or OS as it never boots.

 

 

A local computer shop guy looks at it briefly and tries a different power supply then tells me the motherboard is bad.  This may be true but of course I am hesitant to believe it of course as it seems to me the board dying at the same time Windows tried to do an update would be a mighty big coincidence I think.

So I go home and walk through all the possible trouble shooting steps on the HP site, here and elsewhere.   

All the options for safe mode, boot to bios, try booting holding diff keys down,reset BIOS, remove battery, remove all peripherals and internals, remove video card, remove memory, remove video card try different cab;e, monitors, etc., etc.

 

Here is what I am left with so far.  When I boot with everything removed, including the 4 DDR4 memory sticks out, at start up the computer produces 3 long beeps, then approx a 1 sec pause and then 2 higher pitched beeps.  This repeats 4 or 5 times then nothing. 

When I add 1 or more memory sticks (in any order or in any slot, I tried different configurations) then start the computer, the power button light comes on, all fans start running, but no beeps and no other response.  Connecting the peripherals, I hear the DVD try to spin and with USB thumb drive plugged it, it lights for a second.   No other response than that.  I have tried sticking in a Windows recovery boot DVD and on thumb drive but zero response from the computer.

So am I most likely looking at a dead mother board? 

I've read a lot but seem to see conflicting information on the meaning of those beeps with the memory removed.  Some sites say if the board produces any beeps at all that means my CPU and board are good.  Is that really true?

 

I cannot find information specific  to HP on the 3\2 beep sequence other then generally pointing at hardware \ memory.  I have no other memory sticks to try but if by chance it is memory related the odds on all 4 sticks going bad at once don't seem possible.
 

What re the chances the failure and the Windows update timing are a coincidence?

Any further thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated before I buy a replacement board.

 

Here are specifics:

 

The HP computer:
HP ENVY Desktop - 750-247c with VIDIA GeForce GTX 745 (factory refurbished)

Purchased in fall 2016 (and of course out of warranty now)

Full specs:
https://support.hp.com/us-en/product/HP-ENVY-750-200-Desktop-PC-series/9259609/document/c04949967/

 

 

HP Motherboard:

Pegatron IPM17-TP
HP Thimphu Intel Z170 Envy PAV Motherboard 799926-601
 
 

 



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#2 JohnC_21

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 02:39 PM

If the shop replaced the PSU and it still did not boot then the chances of the motherboard being bad are good. Did you attempt a powercycle. Leave one stick of RAM in and remove the power cord. Remove the CMOS battery. Hold the power button down for 30 seconds. Replace the CMOS battery and then the power. See if you get a post beep. I don't see how all 4 sticks of memory could go bad.

 

Windows 10 works very closely with the UEFI BIOS but I can't see it borking the firmware though some people have complained that a Windows update did just that.

 

The only thing I could find on the 3 long and two short was this.

 

https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-System-and-Recovery/3-long-beeps-and-2-short-on-startup/td-p/5388533



#3 PhillPower2

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 04:57 PM

I've read a lot but seem to see conflicting information on the meaning of those beeps with the memory removed.  Some sites say if the board produces any beeps at all that means my CPU and board are good.  

 

 

No beeps with RAM in but beeps with the RAM out would normally suggest that things are ok up to the point that the graphics are checked as part of the power on self test (POST).

 

Do you have access to a HDMI screen so that you can remove the add on video card and try the MBs HDMI ports.



#4 nbstl68

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Posted 02 February 2018 - 05:32 PM

Yes, I tried connecting the monitor directly to an HDMI port on the board and have removed the graphics card.  Same result.  No beep, no signal to the monitor from the mobo.  No beeps when started up with the RAM in.
 

I popped the CMOS coin battery out last night for about 5 min with no power to the computer and also moved the CMOS jumpers to what was indicated as "Clear CMOS \ Reset password" marked on the board, then back as well.

Since the board does the 3.2 beep sequence with no RAM in, is the fact that it beeps at all mean the motherboard is definitely not the issue or could it still be bad and present beeps?
 



#5 PhillPower2

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 06:41 AM

One of the things that I most dislike about OEM brand MBs such as used by Dell, HP and others is there lack of PS/2 ports for connecting a wired keyboard and mouse to, being that your MB only has USB ports you have no way of ruling out a keyboard error causing this.

 

If you have your keyboard connected to a blue USB 3.0 port try connecting it to each of the black USB 2.0 ports (restarting each time) to see if it makes a difference, because you don`t even get a BIOS or HP splash screen it is a long shot but want to be sure that we suggest as much as we can for you.

 

is the fact that it beeps at all mean the motherboard is definitely not the issue or could it still be bad and present beeps?

 

 

Unfortunately no for the first part and yes to the second, the fact that you get no display of any kind at all may suggest a problem with the MB itself I`m afraid, blown or leaking cap/s or the power good signal being bad as two examples.

 

Not sure if you have read it but someone that had the same problem with the same MB after a Windows update here I suspect that it is a coincidence though as a Windows update would not affect a MB power on self test (POST) procedure whereas getting a black screen from the offset before Windows has even begun to load would suggest that the issue was hardware related.



#6 nbstl68

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 12:18 AM

Well, thanks for all the advice. I have tried all the above and all HP recommendations with no success.
I did notice on the board a set of jumpers labeled ROM recovery jumpers thinking that could be of use but have found very little information on those other than to not touch. A few discussions about these jumpers and reloading bios was beyond my ability in case that was even a remote possibility,(I read a few threads on mobos being bricked but recoverable due to bios issues).
Still seems odd to me the board will power all periferals, fans etc. and beep when no memory is in but still be bad.
I'm left with ordering a new mobo..the other similar post BTW was me asking about mobo replacement options before I decided to do some last chance shots at it. I plan to get an identical replacement from ebay as this board unfortunately does not appear to be available new.

#7 PhillPower2

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 12:30 PM

 I tried connecting the monitor directly to an HDMI port on the board and have removed the graphics card.

 

 

Just for clarity, do you mean that you physically removed the add on video card from the MB before trying the onboard video port/s.

 

Some info on checking the caps on the MB here

 

few discussions about these jumpers and reloading bios was beyond my ability in case that was even a remote possibility,(I read a few threads on mobos being bricked but recoverable due to bios issues).

 

 

Pulling the CMOS battery like you have already done has the same affect as restoring the MBs default settings in the BIOS.



#8 nbstl68

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 06:01 PM

Correct,

I physically removed the add on video card from the MB before trying the on-board video port/s. (two HDMI ports were the only video option)
I had also removed and\or disconnected basically everything including drives and memory to see what different responses if any I would get from the mobo.
Also tried the keyboard in every possible USB port.

 

I'm back to where I was mid-way through my troubleshooting.  anything\everything or any conbo connected and memory in -> press power -> get power lights, fans run on CPU, (video card when installed), DVD drive tries to initiate, USB thumb drive would light up (if installe dwhen tested)...not a sound from the mobo and zero reaction other than that described.  Black monitor, no connection message when monitor turned on.

 

Take memory out - > all the same except for the 3.2 beep sequences from the mobo, which from what I looked up refers to misc jardware \ where's the memory? beep.

 

I kept messing with it to my limited ability because I wanted to think just because the mobo beeped at all that maybe it was not dead.

My assumption at this point it that is not the case and it is dead and I'll order a new\used identical replacement form eBay so that everything with the computer box connects properly.

 

The only if\maybe is it not dead I still have is from reading posts about bricked boards that actually act this way when the BIOS flash gets F'd up.  But of course I did nothing with the bios, (unless somehow a Window's 10 update could mess them up.).  But based on procedures for force flashing updating ROM BIOS it would be beyond my ability or equipment, (I have none) to even try.

 

So I see an identical replacement board on eBay for $125...it could be worse...maybe.  If I put any value to my time at all, just what I have wasted in messing with it this far may not have been worth it vs. going straight for a new mobo...I just hate giving up.

 

Thanks for all the input.

 



 



#9 PhillPower2

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 12:38 PM

So I see an identical replacement board on eBay for $125..

 

 

Ouch, if your Windows product key wasn't tied to the MB I would have suggested getting a different board if you confirm that it is the board that is bad.

 

You mention that the shop tried a different PSU, if you are still using the original 300W that shipped with the computer, would it be possible for you to borrow an alternative known good PSU for testing purposes.

 

Did you check the caps on the MB.

 

Not easy to do I know but before replacing the board I would test with a different PSU and a known good stick of RAM and have all of your RAM tested.

 

You are welcome btw  :)



#10 nbstl68

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 01:21 PM

Ok, now you have me a bit confused\concerned...Windows product key tied to the MB??
How would anyone ever switch to a different board then without a new purchase?
Will I have to contact MS or some specific process to follow to get Windows to work then with a new MB?

 

I was originally looking at new MB alternatives but I would have to do a lot of research, (being so out of date on this stuff personally) and even them it may not have all the necessary connections for the HP box, like the multiple front\back\top USB ports, card reader and such.

The computer shop guy did say he tried a different PS with the same results.  I know of no one these days who would have a spare PS laying around to test but since that was already done, why would I try that again?

I have 4 sticks of DDR4 RAM (24GB) in the computer which came stock.  I did try taking all out but 1 then rotating sticks and rotating slots and powering up each time but no different results.  The odds of all 4 sticks \ slots being simultaneously bad at the same time would be rather slim I imagine, yes?

 



#11 PhillPower2

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 02:51 PM

Ok, now you have me a bit confused\concerned...Windows product key tied to the MB??

 

 

I hope that you have your Windows product key information somewhere, delivery docs from HP or a sticker on the case somewhere.

 

Rather than me waffle on, read the - OEM SLP and COA SLP information here

 

Brief explanation, OEM product keys are for single use and are not transferable, they are tied to the first MB that they were used with and cannot be reused with any other MB unless the original MB fails, if the MB does fail, when possible the exact same brand and model of MB must be re-used, if a like for like MB is no longer available an alternative model of board from the same manufacturer may be used.

 

Microsoft store product key information on their databases and know what key has been used with what MB and since Windows 8/8.1 and UEFI BIOS came about the Windows product key is mapped onto the BIOS chip on OEM computers when they leave the factory, if your MB fails and you replace it you have to reactivate Windows for the replacement board, commonly via Microsoft automated telephone service.

 

It is always a good idea to notify Microsoft before replacing a failed MB, I have yet to hear of them not allowing the re use of product key with a replacement board under circumstances such as yours.

 

It is entirely up to you what testing you do and I for my part am only suggesting what I would do before replacing a clients MB.

 

NB: I always make a point of demonstrating any tests to a client so that they can see for themselves what has been done, if this is also what your tech guy did then fine.



#12 nbstl68

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 03:13 PM

Thanks.  Wow I had no idea MS tracked the keys so tightly these days.  I wonder how that works in offices like mine when they roll out 3,000 computers.  They used to have site license keys...the same key for all computers.

The computer guy said he did this, but it was a drop off and come back for it situation.  I could tell he probably did b\c the PS was disconnected from the board when I picked it up.
I did not feel he did a deep enough investigation before declaring the MB dead, (and I guess for a "free diagnostic" they are only going to go so far.  He wanted too much to replace  the board with a used one and I figured I'd just walk since I could handle that and gave him $20 for his time on the free diag.
 

I think I'm out of tricks and other's suggestions.  I'm going to contact MS about the key situation next, (how do you contact a real person at SkyNet...I mean Microsoft about this?).  Thanks for the head's up.



#13 PhillPower2

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 03:56 PM

That scenario comes under the KMS Client and Volume MAK licence agreements which is also explained at the link.

 

As you are running Windows 10 you can download a Windows 10 ISO on another computer to use for a clean install on your computer, you would not be able to do this had you been running Windows 7 and you needed a Windows 7 ISO as you are asked to enter a valid Windows 7 product key as part of the process, if an OEM product key is entered Microsoft detects it, cancels the download and flags up a message that you need to contact the computer provider for support, with Windows 10, in your situation, you do the clean install using the ISO then reactivate Windows using the automated telephone system that I previously mentioned.

 

Btw, not doubting the tech guy that you visited but I prefer to be a bit more transparent. 

 

MS contact info here



#14 nbstl68

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 05:11 PM

Thanks and agreed about the tech guy.  Anyone can act like an honest person and he probably was, but computer repair is an easy business to rip people off as there is no way to prove much of anything.  That's why I'm here and why I was fiddling around to the best of my ability anyway hoping not to have to replace it. 

Who was it who said, "Trust...but verify"?    Oh yeah, Ronald Reagan...And according to Wikipedia, he got it from an old Russian proverb.



#15 PhillPower2

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 05:30 AM

Did you inspect the caps and check that the 4 pin and 24 pin power connections are securely connected, the same for the CPU cooling fan, I mention the CPU cooling fan because of the two high pitched beeps as error beeps concerning the CPU can sometimes be different, usually thermal issue related though which does not appear likely as the system would normally shut down to protect the CPU from frying.

 

 

You are welcome btw  :)






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