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Computer does not support new windows 10 creator update


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#1 Rozesky

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 02:03 PM

Does anyone know what else to do for a computer that has run windows 10 for 2 years

but now with the newest update to Creator it does not have the specs to handle it.

 I worked on the phone with Microsoft level 2 or 3 support for 8 hours over the couse

of one weekend and they arrived at the same conclusion I did , it will not update to

the newest version of windows.

So the only answer they had was to turn off updates totally. Which means the computer

is vulnerable to all the sercurity problems that happen now.

  This happened on my Mom's computer and she is 84, No just recently it happened

on another computer for a senior I help. These computers are only about 5 yrs old so

they are not ancient.

  I am starting to see a pattern with Microsoft where they are just abandoning these

Win 10 computers if they don't mean the newest specs for the update.

  Is there anyway to get just the sercurity updates? Or is this now a new way to force

people into new computers, which by the way work fine otherwise

 

Does anyone have any thoughts about this?



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#2 Kilroy

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 02:10 PM

Did Microsoft Support mention why the computer is not compatible with the new update?



#3 Rozesky

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 02:20 PM

All Microsoft says when this happens is "Your Computer is not compatible with the

newest version of Windows 10", such as 1703 or 1709. They offer no other

solution to keep the computer up to date either. In fact, they say there isn't one.

 

I have talked to Microsoft tech 2 times since then for other computers and I always

ask about this issue, they get really quiet for a bit then say there is nothing they

can do if the computer is no longer cabable of updating


I believe I was once told that hardware is not compatible with the newest version of windows 10



#4 Kilroy

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 02:38 PM

Found this article.  A little more information on the computer might be helpful.  Here is a page to check some of the major manufacturers.

 

One thing I did run across was that a complete reinstall does work for some people.



#5 Rozesky

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 02:47 PM

well when I was on the phone with Microsoft we did a complete reinstall twice from an iso

file of windows 10. It still would not reinstall, would get stuck at 87% then roll every things back

and say it had failed. I will have to get the specs later from my mom's

computer to let you know the specs.

 

thanks for the help



#6 Rozesky

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 02:52 PM

I believe Microsoft should provide a better way to stop major updates if a computer

will no longer support them, then to just turn off all updates. But I guess since it is now

call a service and the fine prints says as it rolls out more updates of (3-4 gigs) twice a year more

and more computers will not handle the updates as they get older.

  In my opinion, some of these are nice computers with good specs, but they are older

and now are we just supposed to throw them away even though they work fine?



#7 RobertoKdev

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 02:58 PM

Windows doesn't contain all chipset drivers.  So, when it reboots to the PE environment to run the feature update, it has no chipset driver in many cases.  It only has the newer chipset drivers.  So, it goes partway, and fails.  Clean installs using the F6 driver will work, but who wants to do that every time there is a feature update (twice a year).  This is my worst gripe against Windows 10.  It is going to drive forced obsolence, when Windows 10 should allow slipstreaming drivers in (which it does not).  Then, it could take the chipset drivers, and carry them into the PE environment.  

 

Your computer may support it, with a clean install, using the F6 driver installation method for the chipset driver, which you already had on your computer, but Windows 10 just doesn't want to carry forward in the install process, but would gladly use if you downloaded the latest media and clean installed it.

 

If they would allow upgrade installs from booted media, with the F6 drivers, people could stay updated, but they won't.  Feature upgrades must be started from within Windows, and then it picks up in PE mode.  They are going to obsolete old hardware constantly this.  People with Windows 10 on new hardware will be unsupported before people with Windows 7 on older or the same hardware, just because Windows 10 doesn't allow upgrade from the disk with F6 drivers, and it won't carry the ones already installed into the system launched upgrade process.


Edited by RobertoKdev, 15 January 2018 - 03:08 PM.


#8 britechguy

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 03:13 PM



Feature upgrades must be started from within Windows, and then it picks up in PE mode.  

 

Not if you use the instructions for Updating Windows 10 using the Windows 10 ISO file but boot from the bootable media rather than triggering setup.exe from within Windows itself.   Or at least I would not characterize as doing it that way as starting from anything other than external media, not from within a fully running instance of Windows itself.


Edited by britechguy, 15 January 2018 - 03:14 PM.

Brian AKA Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

 

     In a modern society where everyone thinks their opinion deserves to be heard nothing annoys me more than individuals who mistake their personal preferences for fact.

         ~ Commenter TheCruyffGurn on the The Guardian website, 8/13/2014

 

              

 


#9 Rozesky

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 03:20 PM

where do I find the F6 driver installation method? I would like to try that on my Mom's
computer.
 
I do agree with you about the forced obsolence, because many people cannot
do a full install of win 10 or do the F6 installation method. Then they are looking at
paying someone and many places charge over 150.00 to do this, so they just buy a
new computer.


Tim's F6 driver guide is very informative.


Backup the data first, because doing the wrong thing could erase the disk.  Clean installs erase the disk contents.

Edited by hamluis, 15 January 2018 - 03:50 PM.


#10 JohnC_21

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 04:13 PM

Welcome to Windows 10 as a service.

 

Only XP used F6 to load drivers. This was used if XP could not detect the disk allowing you to install Mass Storage Drivers off a floppy disk. Otherwise you would need to stream the drivers into the XP install media. On Windows 10 you would select Load Driver in the below screen and is only used if you did not see a drive in the below screen.

 

I would first try Brian's suggestion of a clean install first. Post #8

 

If your computer has a COA sticker with a legible key and you can find a Windows 7 install disk of the same version you would be able to reinstall Windows 7 and do a phone activation. If you cannot find a disk you may be able to order one from the Computer Manufacturer. Otherwise if your mother only uses the computer to do basic browsing, email, and internet purchases consider putting a linux distro on it and call it a day. Set it up and forget it until the next LTS (long term support) version. On a computer that is 5 years old Mint Cinnamon would run fine. You don't even need to install it. Burn the iso to a DVD and it will run from RAM and the DVD allowing you to determine if it meets your mother's needs.

 

https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3457

 

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#11 britechguy

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 05:06 PM

John,
 
          Just to be clear, what I had suggested in post #8 was not a complete clean install (which, if you want to read up on this, see: Doing a Completely Clean Install of Windows 10).
 
          The instructions I gave the link to for updating using the ISO (burned as bootable) presume you can boot your existing Win10, but can be used even if you cannot if you choose to boot from the bootable media and triggering the update from there.  The only reason I suggest that first is because you still get the option to choose to "keep my apps and files" which is not present in a Reset.
 
           I've been able to follow the "Update from ISO" instructions as written, but have suggested that those who cannot get their existing Win10 installation to boot to tweak the instructions such that they are booting from the media rather than just firing up setup.exe from it.  No one has stated that they did not get this specific window during the process: https://fud.community.services.support.microsoft.com/Fud/FileDownloadHandler.ashx?fid=2022b999-2626-4845-a91f-d66f23f66123
as part of it.  The key difference is the keeping of files AND apps, which saves a ton of work if the upgrade takes.

Brian AKA Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

 

     In a modern society where everyone thinks their opinion deserves to be heard nothing annoys me more than individuals who mistake their personal preferences for fact.

         ~ Commenter TheCruyffGurn on the The Guardian website, 8/13/2014

 

              

 


#12 RobertoKdev

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 05:13 PM

           The instructions I gave the link to for updating using the ISO (burned as bootable) presume you can boot your existing Win10, but can be used even if you cannot if you choose to boot from the bootable media and triggering the update from there.  The only reason I suggest that first is because you still get the option to choose to "keep my apps and files" which is not present in a Reset.

 

 

These no longer works.  If you create a newer Windows 10 CD from Microsoft, and attempt to boot to it, It will inform you that you cannot upgrade via media, and the upgrade process must be started in Windows.   With Disc and the newer updates, it's full install, or nothing.  "You cannot upgrade using bootable media.  The upgrade must be started from within Windows" or something to that effect.

 

I had multiple systems on Windows 10 doing fine, but had to roll everything back to 7 and plan to stay there until 2020 and go to Macs, because one gaming PC cannot upgrade starting in Windows, but it can do a clean install, every time, and, using a Disc, will not let you upgrade, since the "upgrade" to a new feature set must be started within Windows.

 

They are systemically using that dyanmic to get rid of the machines that got the free upgrade.  It was just core 2 and older.  Now, for this newest one, Now they are cutting out Clover Trail in this update.   Those processors came out in 2012.  The reason the older Cores work is with full installs is because you can update the drivers via f6.  But, now that the feature updates won't let you install from bootable media, those "free upgrade customers" will also fall by the wayside eventually.


Edited by RobertoKdev, 15 January 2018 - 05:22 PM.


#13 britechguy

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 05:45 PM

Clover trail is long ago documented and Microsoft, unless something has come out I haven't read, has said it will maintain Version 1607 for that class of processor until 2023.  This is probably because the issue is because of the chip maker and the PR of dropping the devices that use clover trail.

 

I am a person who's always ran his computers to well past what most people would consider "their expected expiration date," so I am sympathetic to those who like to do so.  At the same time, it is well known that 5 years is the maximum *reasonable* period of time you can consider a computer to be functionally current and completely supported, and not just by Microsoft.  

 

There are a very great many people who elected to upgrade devices to Windows 10 that the manufacturers of said devices never certified as being compatible from the outset.  That, in and of itself, makes that decision an "at your own risk" situation.   These machines, on the whole, were near or past the end of their service lives when updated.

 

I simply do not believe that it is reasonable to believe that commercial entity like Microsoft is responsible to maintain backward compatibility "in perpetuity" for hardware that is long past its practical expiration date.  Even many flavors of Linux, which is much better about compatibility over very long periods of time, don't do this.

 

Software makers are always going to focus on hardware that is current, as in on sale now, or was on sale up to perhaps 5 years in the past.  Computers that are older than that can, at any moment, go out of support for newer versions of whatever OS they're running, not just Windows.  It is, though, a PITA if Windows 10 keeps trying to do its next version updates.  I suspect that a feature that will be coming down the pike is detection of whether the hardware in question is "on the list" as supported for a given version update and it being skipped, and a message to that effect communicated to the owner, and also telling the owner what the "drop dead" date is as far as security updates for the version of Windows 10 on their own machine.


Brian AKA Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

 

     In a modern society where everyone thinks their opinion deserves to be heard nothing annoys me more than individuals who mistake their personal preferences for fact.

         ~ Commenter TheCruyffGurn on the The Guardian website, 8/13/2014

 

              

 





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