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Capital Punishment - Timely Debate


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#1 auto1571

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 05:26 PM

So, are you for or against the death penalty?

 

I am against it and here is why:

 

  1. There is not a court case in the world that is based on deductive reasoning; it's all inductive which allows the possibility of the conclusion to be false, even though there may very well be strong premises to support the conclusion. As a result of this reasoning many innocent people have been sentenced to death in the past. If it was based on deductive reasoning such as the case with mathematics then we can be assured with complete certainty that there is no possibility of the conclusion being false. And yes, even today court cases are still based on inductive reasoning in place of deductive reasoning, despite advancements in forensics, with innocent people still ending up on trial.
  2. We are mere mortals that have not been given any god-given right to determine the destiny of another individual.
  3. Once a supposed perpetrator has been executed that does nothing to take back what the supposed perpetrator has done.
  4. From a subjective point of view, once a supposed perpetrator has been executed they are then at peace, while the victims continue to suffer. In this case it could be considered that sentencing the perpetrator to death is too kind.

Based on these four points, with the first one being the strongest in my opinion I think that capital punishment is not a reasonable and justified solution.



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#2 georgehenry

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 05:29 PM

I believe in it.



#3 auto1571

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 05:51 PM

Any why exactly do you believe in it?



#4 georgehenry

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Posted 29 November 2017 - 05:40 AM

Why I believe in it is because of the 300, and rising, people, that have been killed, by killers that have been released and have killed again.



#5 r.a.d.

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Posted 14 December 2017 - 02:33 PM

As per your post title 'Timely', it's rather akin to gun control and other political/religious/etc. debates that have been ongoing for quite some time.
Posts like this can also become very contentious and hope (in spite of my response 'bumping' it) that it doesn't occur.

There is also abductive reasoning as mentioned here:

https://www.livescience.com/21569-deduction-vs-induction.html

For a direct observation, used to be on the fence about it, but have changed that perception over the years as once that final curtain closes on a defendant, there's no going back.
Just finishing a book: Mean Justice by Edward Humes (c/o 1999, author was previously awarded a Pulitzer in '89) that's admittedly dated as well as ponderous, but does portray the many law enforcement/prosecutorial misconducts leading to convictions where releases of (later deemed) innocents eventually followed, as well as those clearly guilty that qualified for the same reasons. 

An innocent  put to death under the auspices of such flawed law tactics is a travesty of justice.

Life without parole seems more beneficial to society as well for some reasons outlined below:

http://deathpenalty.org/facts/5-myths-death-penalty/

Though to add, I'm glad that some of the past's serial killers are pushing up daisies, but am leaning on your side of the fence.

BTW, a moderate Republican/strong law enforcement supporter here.
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#6 SuperSapien64

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 04:57 PM

I'm against it for the most part unless its a war criminal.



#7 auto1571

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 05:41 PM

In addition to abductive reason I am reminded too of confirmation biases which people (included experts) can be influenced by as well and have been.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211368113000028

 



#8 Hareen

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Posted 22 December 2017 - 10:10 PM

Let me ask you something, you should not be feeling bad about it though:

 

Are you a victim of any such murders or rapes ( forcible sex acts )?

 

If yes, you may say that out of pity for the fellow being despite being a victim.

If no, you just don't know the agony undergone by the victim and you have no right to talk a topic as such.

 

Capital punishment should be there and it should be implemented more brutally, is my opinion.

Though making the criminal die out of hanging or such does not really serve any purpose.

 

Behead him publicly, castrate him to death is what should be done; to create respect and fear for the judicial system and law enforcement systems present out there.

 

People when there is no severe punishment, do not fear a thing and go on doing all such crimes and stuff.

Just like if there is no reward there is no much work done. if there is no punishment no law-abiding will be done.

If no one gets punished for thieving, people will remain thieves assuming it is their birthright.

 

If you have punished ( killed or committed anything non-consensual) someone, then take it for granted someone else will be doing the same to you. 

 

Just my opinion. If you are offended, don't raise such topics again about anything without thinking from all the points of view.


Edited by Hareen, 22 December 2017 - 10:12 PM.


#9 r.a.d.

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 11:48 AM

When it comes to murderers, rapists, pedophiles and other heinous offenders, my wife is always known to say "Shoot 'em in the head!"
Depending on the crime, (and still straddling the fence) I tend to agree except with a pedophile where instead of protective custody, throw them in the prison's general population (for obvious reasons).
However, when too much zeal is applied gaining a guilty verdict, that can and has placed innocents on death row in a minority of cases. 

As far as being a deterrent, you can find statistics that only muddy the waters depending on pro/con sources.

Before posting, did a quick search: crime rates in countries with death penalty vs. without, results/opinions/statistics all over the map, lending credence to 'believe half of what you read and none of what you hear'.
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#10 SuperSapien64

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 07:52 PM

@ r.a.d.

 

Pedophilia is mental disorder they should put in the MHU as long as they didn't hurt any children directly or indirectly, its like saying lets lock up kleptomaniacs just because they have an uncontrollable urge to steal things they also should be in a MHU. Don't get me wrong here I understand if the person is child molester by all means arrest that person and throw away the key. I have a dead relative who was a child molester and he got away with until the day he died, I found this out from my mother and I was outraged that none of the relatives/family tried to do anything probably because he had a powerful corrupt lawyer.:(



#11 r.a.d.

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 08:44 PM

Hi, it is classed as that but in the context I stated + prison, that surely indicates a molestation charge and trial. I would agree, lacking acting out those disorders, what criteria could suffice for admitting someone into a Mental Health Unit? Maybe child porn on a computer... just thinking, but that's an arrest-able crime. If someone were to willingly seek help on the mental condition, more power to them with hopes of some cure.

As an aside, my wife did jury duty a few months back, 10 counts of 'diddling' his daughter/no actual intercourse (lowered from an original (13) from her age of 10 to 16. She testified, very brave young girl. They found him guilty on all counts. By the nature of the 'diddling' over 6 years, it was apparent his behavior was escalating. Luckily he was arrested before that happened.

I draw a hard line there, as you do.
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#12 auto1571

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 09:11 PM

Pedophilia is a sexual disorder described as being attracted to pre-pubescent children, usually 13 and younger. Some act on their urges and others don't. Pedophilia is a medical term; not a legal term. Anyone that commits sexual acts on any non-consensual being is known legally as a sex offender. 



#13 auto1571

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 09:20 PM

  1. I understand that this is a sensitive subject and I sympathize with any victims. However, sympathy for victims does not justify the killing of innocent people, due to errors in the Judicial system; the judicial system is not fool proof. This is no reason to disrespect the judicial system, however; many things are fool proof, including science, and I have respect for all.  
  2. Whether I am a victim or not does not justify the killing of innocent people. 
  3. Advocating more brutality to the death penalty is based on nothing more than irrational thinking stemming from emotional response.
  4. Victims do have a right to speak but, they do not have a right to decide how the Judicial system works and with good reason; if that was the case then we'd have victims as judges. 

I understand this may sound harsh and cold, but I am doing my best to think of this topic as objectively as possible, where I think objectivity is a must in circumstances like this. 



#14 Hareen

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 09:53 PM

Justice delayed is justice denied is what I believe.

 

 

How many innocent people are hanged?

 

 

If it is for the good of a nation killing few hundreds of innocent people is not at all wrong compared to the not killing those few and millions suffer.

 

The above statement is the sole reason some/many of us existing today; Some might have survived and living today because of the capital punishment of some criminals.

 

You are talking about math, how can math/science prove that someone has/has not killed or committed a crime with murderous intent or just for the cause of committing the crime or for self-protection?

 

How does self-protection count if you killed more than one/two/three persons?


Edited by Hareen, 23 December 2017 - 10:02 PM.


#15 Hareen

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Posted 23 December 2017 - 09:56 PM

In my country, they are feeding people who have killed some hundreds and thousands of people by keeping them in jail and/or house arresting them.

 

Though they are caught red-handed or with proof, people are asking to seek humanitarian grounds.

 

Why should mercy be shown to people who do not care about other people's lives?






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