Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

How long should one wait before forcing a new major Windows 10 version upgrade?


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 midimusicman79

midimusicman79

  • Members
  • 766 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway
  • Local time:08:44 PM

Posted 21 November 2017 - 10:14 AM

Hi all!

 

As every new major Windows 10 version upgrade becomes available, Microsoft gradually starts rolling them out, first for new/newer devices and subsequently for old/older devices.

 

And ideally, in due time, one gets a SysTray notification when the upgrade is ready for one's device, which for most, if not all users goes well and without a hitch.

 

Nonetheless, some users actually never get any automatic notification of this, and are left behind with the previous version of Windows 10.

 

Of course, there is always the option to forcing a new major version upgrade with the Media Creation Tool, which can create installation media like a USB Flash Memory or a DVD.

 

And hence, my question is as follows;

 

How long should one wait before forcing a new major Windows 10 version upgrade?

 

Thank you very much in advance!

 

Regards,

midimusicman79


MS Win 10 Pro 64-bit, EAM Pro/EEK, MB 3 Free, WPP, SWB Free, CryptoPrevent Free, NVT OSA and Unchecky, WFW, FFQ with CanDef, uBO, Ghostery, Grammarly Free and HTTPS Ew. Acronis TI 2018, K. Sw. Upd. AM-tools: 9-lab RT BETA, AdwCleaner, Auslogics AM, aswMBR, Avira PCC, BD ART, catchme, Cezurity AV, CCE, CKS, ClamWin P., Crystal Sec., DDS, DWCI, EMCO MD, eScan MWAV, ESS/EOS, FGP, FMTB, FRST, F-SOS, FSS, FreeFixer, GMP, GMER, hP BETA, HJT, Inherit, JRT, K. avz4, KVRT, K. TDSSKiller, LSP-Fix, MB 3 Free, MBAR BETA, MA Stinger, NMC, NoBot, NPE, NSS, NVT MRF (NMRF), OTL, PCC, QD, RCS, RSIT, RKill, Rs, SC, SR, SAP, SVRT, SAS, SL, TMHC, TSA ART, UHM, Vba32 AR, VRS, WR (AiO), Xvirus PG, ZAM, ZHPC, ZHPD and Zoek. I have 23 Years of PC Experience. Bold = effective.


BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 britechguy

britechguy

    Been there, done that, got the T-shirt


  • Moderator
  • 9,023 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Staunton, VA
  • Local time:02:44 PM

Posted 21 November 2017 - 10:28 AM

I don't think there's a definitive answer to your question.   I can say that, for anyone, whether new hardware or old, "don't rush" is excellent advice.

 

The mad dash to get (by force) a feature update in the opening weeks of its availability guarantees that you are volunteering to be the guinea pig for what will most likely be the most unstable version of the update.  We've seen several of the major feature updates prior to Version 1709 be slowed to a virtual crawl to address unanticipated issues that occurred only once the software hit enough platforms to identify issues that testing did not (and it may go that route, too).  I've said it before and I'll say it again:  Microsoft, or any OS maker for the PC platform, cannot possibly test on all the hardware configurations on which the existing versions of Windows 10 is running because many people installed it on machines never certified by their manufacturers as Windows 10 compatible.  The fact that it's working (for the most part) on many platforms it was never envisioned to run on is a bit of a miracle in itself, but there are going to be times when an update will break something that MS could not test because they don't have that platform as part of their test bed.

 

I would say, as a general rule, anywhere between three and six months into a major feature update, when there have been no "big incidents" reported with it, should be plenty safe as far as forcing the update if you think you must have it.

 

I generally wait until it shows up via the normal Windows Update mechanism.  The laptop I'm typing from happened to be in the first cohort (which was a first for me as far as feature updates go) for Version 1709 and I have had no problems with it.  The other two machines that have been in my household long term are both still on Version 1703 and waiting.  I just purchased two laptops that came with Version 1511, of all things, loaded on them so it was an immediate forced update on both of them to Version 1709.  They're working just fine with it, too.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#3 Guest_Joe C_*

Guest_Joe C_*

  • Guests
  • OFFLINE
  •  

Posted 21 November 2017 - 08:33 PM

Not sure how long Microsoft is going to support your hardware. Microsoft has stated that they are not going to update hardware that is out of support by the oem's. Exactly what and or when that happens is still anybody's guess

 

Confirmed: Windows 10 may cut off devices with older CPUs

The problem, however, is that Microsoft’s language opens up the possibility that any unsupported hardware device could be excluded from future Windows 10 updates, whenever they may be.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3209705/windows/confirmed-windows-10-will-cut-off-devices-with-older-cpus.html

 

If your running 10 on an older cpu, your days may be limited


Edited by Joe C, 21 November 2017 - 08:48 PM.


#4 midimusicman79

midimusicman79
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 766 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway

Posted 22 November 2017 - 10:37 AM

Hi, britechguy & Joe C!
 
Thank you both for the prompt and insightful replies! :)
 
With the exception of Windows 10 Version 1511, all my subsequent new major Windows 10 version installs have gone perfectly, however I have clean installed most of them (including Version 1511, which was resolved that way) due to various minor issues that required it, but increasingly often without issues and as for Version 1709 an upgrade install with a DVD, which saved me a lot of time.
 
Due to the time difference, I routinely download the MCT the day after the new major Version is launched, and burn a DVD with it the second, and install on the third day, which allows for smoothly getting the new major Version with few to no issues.
 
For the record, I am running Windows 10 Pro 64-bit on a 2 years old Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0-4.2GHz LGA1151 Boxed/Retail CPU, so is that an older CPU?
 
You are correct that it is a Windows OEM computer, however, I actually bought all the components separately and built it myself with help from my dad, so IMO the OEM-concept does not quite apply.
 
So it is not like as if I am having any active issue, because otherwise I would have posted my topic in the Windows 10 Support Forum, IOW I just asked for an opinion on the subject on a general basis.
 
Thank you very much for the help! :)
 
Regards,
midimusicman79

Edited by midimusicman79, 22 November 2017 - 12:27 PM.

MS Win 10 Pro 64-bit, EAM Pro/EEK, MB 3 Free, WPP, SWB Free, CryptoPrevent Free, NVT OSA and Unchecky, WFW, FFQ with CanDef, uBO, Ghostery, Grammarly Free and HTTPS Ew. Acronis TI 2018, K. Sw. Upd. AM-tools: 9-lab RT BETA, AdwCleaner, Auslogics AM, aswMBR, Avira PCC, BD ART, catchme, Cezurity AV, CCE, CKS, ClamWin P., Crystal Sec., DDS, DWCI, EMCO MD, eScan MWAV, ESS/EOS, FGP, FMTB, FRST, F-SOS, FSS, FreeFixer, GMP, GMER, hP BETA, HJT, Inherit, JRT, K. avz4, KVRT, K. TDSSKiller, LSP-Fix, MB 3 Free, MBAR BETA, MA Stinger, NMC, NoBot, NPE, NSS, NVT MRF (NMRF), OTL, PCC, QD, RCS, RSIT, RKill, Rs, SC, SR, SAP, SVRT, SAS, SL, TMHC, TSA ART, UHM, Vba32 AR, VRS, WR (AiO), Xvirus PG, ZAM, ZHPC, ZHPD and Zoek. I have 23 Years of PC Experience. Bold = effective.


#5 britechguy

britechguy

    Been there, done that, got the T-shirt


  • Moderator
  • 9,023 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Staunton, VA
  • Local time:08:44 PM

Posted 22 November 2017 - 02:09 PM

midimusicman,

 

              No, the i7 family is not (at least not now, nor for the foreseeable future) and "old" processor.  You have to go back to chips from the Windows 7 when new era or older.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#6 Rocky Bennett

Rocky Bennett

  • Members
  • 2,826 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New Mexico, USA
  • Local time:02:44 PM

Posted 22 November 2017 - 07:44 PM

I am cutting edge and I install the newest version the first morning it is available. This practice has always served me well.

 

I also use a rolling release of Linux, but that's just how I roll.

 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/linux-distributions-rolling-releases-versus-point-releases-which-should-you-choose/


594965_zpsp5exvyzm.png


#7 Guest_Joe C_*

Guest_Joe C_*

  • Guests
  • OFFLINE
  •  

Posted 22 November 2017 - 08:48 PM

Just the other day I installed 10 fall creators edition on a pc with an X58 board with an i7 920 cpu. I got a notice that the cpu did not meet requirements to install...I thought wtf????

I went into the bios and enabled TPM (trusted platform module) even though this board did not have that module installed, it passed the hardware check and installed Windows 10. Now I get an error during post that the TPM is not working. It still boots up and runs 10 just fine.  I haven't tried to disable it now that 10 is in cuz I got busy and side tracked but after the turkey dinner I'll see what happens after I disable TPM in the bios


Edited by Joe C, 22 November 2017 - 08:49 PM.


#8 midimusicman79

midimusicman79
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 766 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Norway
  • Local time:12:44 PM

Posted 23 November 2017 - 09:30 AM

Hi again, britechguy & Joe C!

 

Thank you britechguy for the prompt and reassuring reply! :)

 

Glad to hear that my CPU is not "old", thus proving Joe C wrong, although he did use the conjunction "if". :thumbup2:

 

@ Joe C: I can hereby inform you that I have just added you to my 'Ignore' Preferences. :exclame:

 

Thanks again! :)

 

Regards,

midimusicman79


MS Win 10 Pro 64-bit, EAM Pro/EEK, MB 3 Free, WPP, SWB Free, CryptoPrevent Free, NVT OSA and Unchecky, WFW, FFQ with CanDef, uBO, Ghostery, Grammarly Free and HTTPS Ew. Acronis TI 2018, K. Sw. Upd. AM-tools: 9-lab RT BETA, AdwCleaner, Auslogics AM, aswMBR, Avira PCC, BD ART, catchme, Cezurity AV, CCE, CKS, ClamWin P., Crystal Sec., DDS, DWCI, EMCO MD, eScan MWAV, ESS/EOS, FGP, FMTB, FRST, F-SOS, FSS, FreeFixer, GMP, GMER, hP BETA, HJT, Inherit, JRT, K. avz4, KVRT, K. TDSSKiller, LSP-Fix, MB 3 Free, MBAR BETA, MA Stinger, NMC, NoBot, NPE, NSS, NVT MRF (NMRF), OTL, PCC, QD, RCS, RSIT, RKill, Rs, SC, SR, SAP, SVRT, SAS, SL, TMHC, TSA ART, UHM, Vba32 AR, VRS, WR (AiO), Xvirus PG, ZAM, ZHPC, ZHPD and Zoek. I have 23 Years of PC Experience. Bold = effective.


#9 britechguy

britechguy

    Been there, done that, got the T-shirt


  • Moderator
  • 9,023 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Staunton, VA

Posted 23 November 2017 - 10:19 AM

midimusicman,

 

          You're quite welcome.

 

 

Rocky,

 

          I want to make clear that my "wait a bit" advice is for your typical user, most of whom aren't able to cope with any "irregularities."   Although I am not quite so quick about it as you are, I tend to update my "work computer" fairly early on because I anticipate getting calls from clients either about issues that have popped up or about new dialogs/panes/features that have arrived on the scene.

 

          I still advise any client (and follow that advice myself with my other machines) to either wait until the update comes in through the usual Windows Update mechanism or at least to give it 4-6 weeks from release before forcing an update (longer if there's tech press that's reporting a specific wave of known problems).

 

          I have been very, very happy with Windows 10 overall and the bumps I've encountered have been minimal except on the old Dell Inspiron 1720 for which I could never find a mousepad driver that would work with Windows 10.  I'm just conservative when it comes to suggesting very early updates to folks.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#10 Umbra

Umbra

    Authorized Emsisoft Rep


  • Members
  • 139 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:08:44 PM

Posted 23 November 2017 - 08:54 PM

My recipe when they release a new upgrade,n i don't wait , i jump on it but with some precautions:

 

1- download all the needed drivers from the manufacturers on a USB

2- do a backup of my current Windows system (in case of major issue)

3- download an ISO of the new upgrade. (via Microsoft Media Creation Tool)

4- do a clean install (format system partition + custom install)

5- let Windows install the drivers it has in stock, let it update what it needs.

6- if some hardware drivers are missing or a hardware is misbehaving, i install the previously backed-up ones accordingly.

 

this procedure never failed me yet.


Edited by Umbra, 23 November 2017 - 08:55 PM.


Emsisoft Community Manager


#11 britechguy

britechguy

    Been there, done that, got the T-shirt


  • Moderator
  • 9,023 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Staunton, VA
  • Local time:02:44 PM

Posted 23 November 2017 - 09:53 PM

The following is asked with no snark intended, but those of you who do clean installs all the time, do you just not install much on your systems at all?

 

There is no way I could do clean installs every time there's a feature upgrade because I have too much time invested in installing a boatload of software to do it over again each and every time there's a feature update.  If you add to that the fact that some of it (e.g., Microsoft Office) has a limited number of activations clean installs are just not in the cards.

 

Perhaps there's something I'm missing?

 

I can say that the machine I'm typing from started out as a Windows 8.1 machine and has had nothing but in-place feature updates and they've all gone without a hitch and the system behaves just fine.  I'm trying to understand why there is such a strong preference for clean installs from a significant number of "the geek contingent" (and I include myself in the GC) when I have not had any issue with any of my systems that have been doing in-place updates, some starting out as Windows 7 machines.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#12 Umbra

Umbra

    Authorized Emsisoft Rep


  • Members
  • 139 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:01:44 AM

Posted 23 November 2017 - 10:30 PM

@britechguy

 

My system partition is only 28-30Gb, so almost all is used by Win10 FCU, drivers, office 2016 and some installed softs (security, some tools for my job, etc...); most of my programs are portable (if possible) and placed on a dedicated partition created especially for them (call it a "portable program file" folder ^^) . I hate bloating my OS with tons of apps installing unlimited reg keys, drivers or folder everywhere :P

 

Of course i understand people with huge panoply of installed software are reluctant to do it. 

 

I'm trying to understand why there is such a strong preference for clean installs from a significant number of "the geek contingent" (and I include myself in the GC) when I have not had any issue with any of my systems that have been doing in-place updates, some starting out as Windows 7 machines.

 

 

My reason is with time i observed that doing classic updates (via WU) is way longer (if you are lucky that it even complete) , waste some vast amount of space used by some old and obsolete folders (~BT,etc...) and may even create more issues or corruptions (boot loops, BSODs, etc...) due to incompatible programs.

 

By formatting, i remove most possibility of errors, the only ones left are usually due to faulty drivers delivered by MS.

 

When i clean install i do a backup after each major steps and i use Rollback RX so it is faster and more convenient. 

 

1- Classic backup after OS installation

2- installation of RX and snapshot with RX after updating the OS.

3- Classic backup after drivers installation.

4- Snapshot with RX after security soft installation

5- Classic Backup after all my programs are installed.

 

then i delete backup 3 if all went fine.


Edited by Umbra, 23 November 2017 - 10:31 PM.


Emsisoft Community Manager


#13 Guest_Joe C_*

Guest_Joe C_*

  • Guests
  • OFFLINE
  •  

Posted 24 November 2017 - 03:17 PM

@britechguy,

In the October issue of Maximum PC they recommend a program called "Clone App" it makes a copy of your software's settings and makes re-installing easier. Personally I haven't had the opportunity to try this out yet, but it did come highly recommended. There's also much more info in that issue about doing a reinstall and keeping what you need.

Here's a review of Clone App by Life Hacker:

 

CloneApp essentially automates the process we detailed in our Windows migration guide: it knows where each program stores its settings and registry keys, and backs them all up in one fell swoop so you don’t have to do the legwork yourself. It supports 119 different Windows programs, can detect which programs you have installed, and even has a section for manual backups so you can include the programs it doesn’t support.

https://lifehacker.com/cloneapp-backs-up-all-your-windows-program-settings-1710987383

 

Clone App

http://www.mirinsoft.com/index.php/download/viewdownload/39-cloneapp/180-cloneapp-portable


Edited by Joe C, 24 November 2017 - 03:19 PM.


#14 britechguy

britechguy

    Been there, done that, got the T-shirt


  • Moderator
  • 9,023 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Staunton, VA
  • Local time:02:44 PM

Posted 24 November 2017 - 04:36 PM

Joe,

 

        I appreciate the pointer and will file it for future reference.

 

        For the time being, though, I have not had the slightest difficulty with doing in-place updates and will continue to do so.  Three of the biggest improvements in Windows 10 from my "geek's eye view" are the ability to Reset (whether keeping your files or not), do a clean reinstall of Windows 10 on any machine that was previously legally licensed for it without the need for a license key, and the ability to do in-place major updates to the OS much more easily than under the old service pack model.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users