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Some questions about Hdds and sshds


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#1 EPerd

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 10:59 AM

1.does any laptop sshd/HDd have to be 2.5 inches? If not, what other measurements are normally accepted?

2.which company makes the best quality sshd/hhd(durability, efficiency, reliability etc)?

3.which company makes the best all around hdd/sshd(all of the qualities in question 2,with the edition of cost to value ratio--most bang for my buck)?

4.If I am getting a laptop with an SSD, would it make sense to add an sshd, or should I just stick to adding an hdd?

5.Best 7200rpm sshd or HDd for laptops on the market today?

6. Any good websites or resources which can tell me the areal/platter density of any given model? I'd like to get a 7200rpm sshd or HDd, but if it is going to wind up being slower than a 5400rpm due to areal density--that is not cool. Lol

Thank you for your time and insights.

Sincerely,
A not-so-knowledgable guy looking for a new laptop who was recently advised that adding my own hdd/sshd may help me reach my price point more easily.

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#2 dc3

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:16 AM

1. first of all... there is no such thing as a sshd, but there is a ssd (Solidstate Drive).  There are two sizes, the 2.5 drive which typically is used in a laptop, and the 3.5 which typically is used in an external enclosure as a backup drive or internally as the system mass storage device.

 

2. If you ask five different people this question you are likely to receive five different answers.  This largely is opinion driven.

 

3. Refer to previous answer.

 

4. Once again, there is no such thing as a sshd.  A ssd is much faster than a hdd, for this reason it's ideal for running the operating system.  Most people now will use a larg hdd as a storage unit.

 

5. Same answer as #3.

 

6. What in the world would you possibly use this information for? 

 

You need to do some reading to further understand the differences between a ssd and a hdd.  These two types of drives are completely different.  The only semblance between the two is that they are mass storage units.  Try the link below.

 

SSD vs HDD | StorageReview.com - Storage Reviews


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#3 jonuk76

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:37 AM

Just an FYI, Seagate and possibly others refers to their hybrid ssd/hdd drives as a SSHD. Easy to overlook, as most prefer the SSD with separate HDD option.

Worth a read on Seagate's website - https://www.seagate.com/gb/en/do-more/how-to-choose-between-hdd-storage-for-your-laptop-master-dm/

My opinion - there's little point in the extra expense of a hybrid drive for storage. Due to the way they work they "cache" frequently accessed files to the SSDmemory. In practice this is likely to mean system files.

Laptops don't use 3.5" drives - only 2.5". Other than that on some laptops there may be different thickness restrictions. You will find 9.5mm and slim 7mm drives, and some 12.5mm drives.

Edited by jonuk76, 15 November 2017 - 11:50 AM.

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#4 EPerd

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:18 PM

DC, https://www.seagate.com/solutions/solid-state-hybrid/

Also, I understand that some of the questions may be opinion oriented, and that is okay by me. I came here for both facts and advice from people I presume to be more experienced and knowledgeable than I.

I understand the difference between hdd and ssd, and decided I will. Need boty

#5 dc3

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 12:25 PM

I remember that there are hybrids, but I wasn't aware that there were sshds.  Live and learn.  This is not a common topic.


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#6 EPerd

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 01:25 PM

I believe sshd and hybrid drives are one and the same, as I think Jonuk pointed out.
Thank you for bringing up millimeters, Jonuk. That was the measurement I both forgot about and that initially confused me lol.

Areal density is important to me because these days, I have read that they determine speed moreso than RPM. For instance, a 5400rpm hdd can actually outperform a 7200rpm hdd if the areal density is better (what makes areal density/how exactly it's measured, I'm still looking into)

And while you're probably right about an sshd(as opposed to an hdd) being an unnecessary expense when I already have an SSD, I'd still like to keep my options open in this regard.

Though I am intrigued by your assertion about the system files using the ssd space on the sshd, Jonuk.

If I were to make the ssd my boot drive, and save large applications on it, then make my sshd my designated file storage drive, then would it not focus solely on the latter?

#7 jonuk76

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 04:11 PM

And while you're probably right about an sshd(as opposed to an hdd) being an unnecessary expense when I already have an SSD, I'd still like to keep my options open in this regard.

Though I am intrigued by your assertion about the system files using the ssd space on the sshd, Jonuk.

If I were to make the ssd my boot drive, and save large applications on it, then make my sshd my designated file storage drive, then would it not focus solely on the latter?

 

 

What I'm trying to say is that if you use it as a storage drive, it will likely not use the SSD part of it very much.  It will possibly cache frequently read files that don't update, so that the next time they are read, it will be from the SSD memory rather than the physical disk.  It will have zero impact on write times.  You can get an SSHD if you want, by all means, and use it as a storage drive.  It won't be a problem.  Sometimes they are only marginally more expensive than a regular HDD, if you get a good deal.  Just don't expect it to perform much better than a cheaper HDD in this situation.

 

Example - Firecuda 1 Tb Hybrid Drive with 8 Gb Hybrid Cache - $59.99  Hitachi Travelstar 7200rpm 1 Tb HDD - $50.99  For $9 difference you can satisfy your curiosity....

 

If you use the SSHD as a system drive, with optimised system settings (for example Intel Smart Response Technology can manage SSHD's to make the best use of the limited amount of cache memory) then the most commonly accessed system files and applications will be cached.  This speeds up boot times, and shortens application loading times.  It's not as good as a true SSD though, but can give a significant boost over a traditional HDD in this scenario.  SSHD's are ideal where you need a large amount of storage space, have only room for one drive, and don't have the budget for a large SSD.
 


Edited by jonuk76, 15 November 2017 - 04:21 PM.

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#8 Kilroy

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 12:24 PM

I'll throw another log on the fire.  You can also get a Solid State Drive (SSD) in an M2 form factor, which looks like a RAM stick with the connector on the end.

 

These days I would NEVER put a mechanical drive in a laptop, unless cost was a major issue.  Besides being slow you have moving parts inside a moving frame, bad all the way around.

 

For order of preference for Operating System (OS) drive type M2 > SSD > SSHD > HD.  An M2 drive can connect at PCI speeds, rather than SATA speeds, making it even faster, in the correct configuration, over a SSD.

 

I see the SSHD as niche product that very few people would benefit from using.  For normal use you want the speed of a SSD.  For storage space you stick with a HD.



#9 britechguy

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 01:29 PM

Well, it does come down to expense in many cases, too.

 

I just bought a 1TB MaxDigital SSHD to replace the HDD on the machine I'm typing on, as it appears to be going wonky.

 

I don't need the "blazing fastness" of a full SSD practically ever, and in storage bang for the buck HDDs far exceed SSDs.   I've been working with desktop and laptop computers since 1980, and I've had two HDDs (total, both in laptops) go wonky in that entire time.   HDD technology for mobile devices has gotten to be about as close to bulletproof as it's ever going to get, and that applies both to internal and external HDDs meant for portability.  They will take a licking and keep on ticking, and ticking, and ticking.

 

The "less careful" member of my household has had his Toshiba Satellite laptop go crashing to the ground (when turned off) from the cover on the top of his truck bed at least twice now, possibly three times, and it's had no problems.   The weakest link these days in consumer market laptops is the flimsiness of the case itself, which isn't a huge deal if you aren't someone who drops the thing from great height onto solid surfaces with any frequency.

 

Everyone has to make their own choices based upon their wants and needs as far as speed and storage capacity.  That being said durability of mobile HDDs is excellent and has been excellent for years now.


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#10 EPerd

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 11:42 AM

Thanks for all the info, gents.
The current laptops I'm really looking into all have m.2 for ssds, and most of them have pcie and/or nvme functionality (hope I said that right lol).

The main reason I am concerned with the hhd/sshd factor is because I want the laptop to last a long while and I am afraid of shortening the SSD's lifespan by putting too much stuff on it.

I am not afraid of an hdd getting messed up due to being inside of a laptop, but I appreciate the info and concern, Kilroy. I think I'd err on the side of Britech guy's assertion of them being generally durable enough.

I'd say I am pretty careful with my laptops. I've jostled em around before, but never dropped or banged them.

Cost is certainly a factor, but one of the laptops I was looking at (the Eluktronics n850 series http://www.eluktronics.com/N850) allowed me to upgrade to an sshd from an hdd for $20 more.

And Jonuk, I would rather get a 1tb 7200rpm hdd over an sshd, but I have only been able to find a few laptops that will allow me to either add an hdd to it(let alone one big enough to accommodate the thickness of a 7200rpm one) or has one that comes with it.

Also, the whole areal density thing still worries, or at least confuses me.

I guess I'll keep an eye out for good sshd and 7200rpm hdd options, but if I can only find or utilize a 5400rpm one, it won't be a deal breaker.

#11 Kilroy

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 04:43 PM

Current SSD drives will last you for years.  Take a read of the SSD Endurance Experiment.  While not a perfect experiment, data validation didn't start until 300TB, it shows that drives from 2013 wouldn't have any issues until 100TB of data was written to them and the first drive didn't die until 700TB.  This volume is way outside of what a normal user would do.

 

There is no way I'd sacrifice the speed of a SSD to go to a mechanical drive.  Only writes to a SSD degrade over time.  Most data is written and then read, with the exception of things like a swap file.  SSDs have been around and improved over time and should serve you as well, if not better than, a mechanical hard drive.



#12 EPerd

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Posted 18 November 2017 - 10:35 AM

That's awesome, Kilroy. Thanks for the info. Also, I agree. To be clear, I want to get a sshd/hdd AND an ssd




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