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3rd party conflicts


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#1 PDN

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:33 AM

I know MS security is weak. 

I would install a 3rd party firewall and Avira a/v along with my MBAM & router but, I am afraid that when it comes time to involve windows updating and any type of installation, there would be a conflict. I only use Windows security to avoid these issues for times like Creator.

Would there be a conflict or issue with windows if I used Avira and a 3rd party firewall?


Edited by PDN, 24 October 2017 - 10:33 AM.


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#2 Allan

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:46 AM

I wouldn't use a third party firewall (the built in Windows firewall is actually quite good) - and if you have a router it already acts as a "hardware/NAT firewall" working in conjunction with your software (Windows) firewall. I absolutely would recommend using a good 3rd party AV app instead of Windows Defender (my personal favorite is Kaspersky, but there are lots of fine alternatives). And no, there will be no conflict.


Edited by Allan, 24 October 2017 - 10:47 AM.


#3 PDN

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:49 AM

Thank you for your prompt courteous reply. 


Edited by PDN, 24 October 2017 - 10:49 AM.


#4 britechguy

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 12:18 PM

And I would recommend sticking with Windows Defender.  The improvements made in it over the last couple of years have placed it routinely in the top 5 to top 10 of most antivirus tests and it got a big beefing up with the release of Windows 10 Version 1709, making it even better.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#5 PDN

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 01:51 PM

I appreciate the helpful comments.There is no subject more subjective than the choice of a/v.


Edited by PDN, 24 October 2017 - 01:51 PM.


#6 Allan

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 02:37 PM

 
 

britechguy and I are generally on the same page, but not so much this time :). While I have the utmost respect for Brian's technical knowledge and opinions, I have to disagree regarding Defender. Yes, MS has made great strides with Defender over the past few years, but where it comes out in tests has actually been all over the place. Some do have it in the top ten, most, however, show less favorable results. Here are a few links you may wish to check:

 

https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,1926596,00.asp

 

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/windows-defender,review-2209.html

 

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3025889/windows/tested-microsofts-windows-defender-antivirus-is-less-awful-than-it-used-to-be.html

 

https://www.lifewire.com/windows-defender-guide-3506936

 

And pages 9 & 10 here: http://www.av-comparatives.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/avc_sum_201512_en.pdf

 

 



#7 britechguy

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 04:15 PM

Allan,

 

         I'm not about to enter into another battle royal with anyone over antivirus.   Your observation about AV tests and Windows Defender, "where it comes out in tests has actually been all over the place," applies to a greater or lesser extent to all AV products depending on what's being tested and how.

 

         In addition, the best defense against getting viruses is developing safe surfing/downloading habits and knowing how to recognize scams (e.g., "Your computer is infected with a virus. Call . . . " pop-ups).

 

         Anyone who is getting any detections from AV products on a regular basis had ought to be asking themselves what it is that they are doing wrong.  My household, which includes two users far less sophisticated than I, has not had an AV detect an infection in well over 10 years.  If someone's getting near constant detections I can guarantee that at some point in the foreseeable future they'll get an infection (at least for a while) because they'll be one of those infected before AVs have the signature for the new virus.

 

          I have yet to see anyone who's been infected with Windows Defender as their antivirus that is even somewhat circumspect about how they interact with cyberspace.

 

          But, everyone's got to select protection with which they're comfortable.  I'm just really tired of the assertion that Windows Defender is a horrible product:  it hasn't been for a while now and it continues to improve, and substantially.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#8 Allan

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 05:31 PM

I'm not saying it's a horrible product Brian, only that I prefer other options.

 

Anyway, I agree 100% that depending solely on an AV app to protect your system from malware / viruses is a recipe for disaster. "Smart computing" is unquestionably the best defense.



#9 britechguy

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 06:45 PM

I'm not saying it's a horrible product Brian, only that I prefer other options.

 

Anyway, I agree 100% that depending solely on an AV app to protect your system from malware / viruses is a recipe for disaster. "Smart computing" is unquestionably the best defense.

 

Sorry, I'm going into knee-jerk mode and it was entirely undeserved.  I am just so accustomed to it not being phrased entirely reasonably, as you have, that, "I prefer other options," but more typically with, "because Windows Defender is trash," that I've got that phrase attached even when it's not been said or implied.  I apologize.

 

And I know that you absolutely did not say that depending solely on an AV to protect your system is a good idea.  What I have often seen when AV wars break out is folks trying to make either the stated or implied claim that one can and should do this.  AVs are cleaning up after the fact, even if "the fact" is at download time because the user has attempted to download an infected file.   All of them can be unaware of new threats at any given moment in time, so they're not close to perfect in keeping infections out.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#10 britechguy

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Posted 24 October 2017 - 10:13 PM

Also, I really don't think it's fair, or particularly informative, to use reports from av-comparatives.org dated 2015 when it comes to antivirus testing results.

 

The latest "real world protection test" from av-comparatives.org, dated September 2017, paints a very different picture of Windows Defender than they did in 2015:

          https://www.av-comparatives.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/avc_factsheet2017_09.pdf 

 

I also find it interesting that one of the products included in several "favorites for free" lists is one that I have stopped using and have taken off of all my clients' computers when the opportunity presents itself because it has become exquisitely oversensitive with lots of false positives and needless anxiety related to same.  It was my own favorite for well over a decade prior to this behavior developing.

 

In any case, I'm coming right back to my soapbox and sticking with the position that learning safe surfing/downloading/computing in general practices is a far better protection from infections than any AV or antimalware product (since they generally have nothing to find if you follow those practices).


Edited by britechguy, 24 October 2017 - 10:14 PM.

Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#11 jenae

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 01:28 AM

Hi Brian, the points you make concerning AV's closely align to mine, It would be very unwise to rely upon AV comparison tests that frequent the internet, very often they are designed to produce a certain result (commercial imperative). Your reference to the variable outcome of these so called tests, should tell anyone qualified that something is wrong here. I can assure you Defender has hardened it's security, and now offers equal or superior protection for the home user. Most importantly it's integration into the OS as opposed to the increasing number of problems reported by those that continue to use third party AV's.



#12 PDN

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 08:44 AM

I agree that this topic can go on forever and is quite subjective, in a friendly manner. 

I am curious about the 9 trojans I got at YouTube. I will not know why but I thought I was being conservative while looking for a video to explain a computer issue yet was struck by that malware.

I guess one can become infected no matter what but I am as protected as I feel I can be.

I am debating paying for the premium MBAM. I have the free version, Defender, Windows firewall at default due to my naivete. I also am behind a router with a password and key. 

I will still go to YouTube for help but the average user like myself is pretty exposed to the bad guys with their technology today. I guess you arm yourself the best your skill allows and throw the dice.


Edited by PDN, 25 October 2017 - 08:44 AM.


#13 britechguy

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:40 AM



. . . the average user like myself is pretty exposed to the bad guys with their technology today. I guess you arm yourself the best your skill allows and throw the dice.

 

If you follow even a relatively limited, but carefully selected based upon your own habits of Quietman7's Best Practices for Safe Computing you are better armored (even if you had no AV or antimalware protection [which, I wish to make clear, I am not suggesting or advocating]) than those who have "the best of the best" in those categories of software but who are cavalier in their computer use habits.

 

Your final statement is, in reality, the final statement.   There is no absolute protection, no matter how careful you are.   I've been surprised over the last month that I've had two search results returned when looking for technical content that resulted in scam pop-ups of the, "You computer is infected . . . ," class.   One of them was even more interesting because it claimed you'd be turned over to law enforcement and the only way to safely dismiss it was to kill the browser.  I never dismiss these things using their own buttons or the window frame in which they reside.

 

Training users to recognize "the near occasions of danger" and what to do when a dangerous situation presents itself that will allow them to prevent damage is also as critical as safe computing behaviors.  No matter how safe you are stuff like this will occasionally (rarely, but occasionally) find its way through.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#14 PDN

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Posted 25 October 2017 - 09:45 AM

Thank goodness for clean images.


Edited by PDN, 25 October 2017 - 09:45 AM.


#15 rhrsyow

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 10:02 AM

Hello,

 

I have used Avira products for several years and never had any problem with them running Windows ... 

Until about a month ago, when Windows 10 did some updates and I updated from Avira 2017 to Avira 2018. 

On my particular laptop (Lenovo 15"), this caused the following problem: 

 

The Settings app kept opening on top and not allowing you to do anything anywhere else when it was open, except for restarting or shutting off. 

You could close the Settings window and it would re-open about 3 seconds later. 

You could use Task Manager to close the Settings app and it would re-open about 10 seconds later. 

 

Several trips to the computer store and several factory resets later, I determined that something in the install code for Avira 2018 is messing with my Settings app code in Windows 10. As the repair people put it, "you've got two antivirus software programs fighting it out; who knows what it would mess up." 

My suggestion is to abandon Avira unless you know exactly how to disable WD before installing it. Otherwise you may get the same problem I had. 

 

Raphael in Ottawa, Canada. 






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