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SSD Life Concerns


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#1 sortajan

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 08:58 AM

I'm using an MSI GT72VR 6RE Dominator Pro-015. The SSD is a Toshiba HG6.
Computer:      MSI GT72VR 6RE

CPU:           Intel Core i7-6700HQ (Skylake-H, R0)

               2600 MHz (26.00x100.0) @ 3291 MHz (33.00x99.8)

Motherboard:   MSI MS-1785

Chipset:       Intel HM170 (Skylake PCH-H)

Memory:        16384 MBytes @ 1197 MHz, 17-17-17-39

               - 8192 MB PC19200 DDR4 SDRAM - Kingston MSI24D4S7S8MB-8

               - 8192 MB PC19200 DDR4 SDRAM - Kingston MSI24D4S7S8MB-8

Graphics:      NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 [MSI]

               NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070, 8192 MB GDDR5 SDRAM

Drive:         TOSHIBA THNSNJ128G8NY, 125.0 GB, Serial ATA 6Gb/s @ 6Gb/s

Drive:         HGST HTS721010A9E630, 976.8 GB, Serial ATA 6Gb/s @ 6Gb/s

Drive:         HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GUD0N, DVD+R DL

Sound:         Intel Skylake PCH-H - High Definition Audio Controller

Sound:         NVIDIA GP104 - High Definition Audio Controller

Network:       Qualcomm/Atheros e2400 PCI-E Gigabit Ethernet Controller

Network:       Atheros/Qualcomm QCA6174 802.11ac Wireless Network Adapter

OS:            Microsoft Windows 10 Home (x64) Build 15063.674 (RS2)

I got this machine around the middle of January this year and it's been great, but I was scrolling through HWiNFO64 about a week ago and it estimated that my SSD had 23% remaining life. It's now at 19% and seems to be losing 1% every two days or so. CrystalDiskInfo doesn't return any information, SSDLife says my drive is at 100%, AIDA64 gives me nothing, Toshiba's SSD Utility says "no drive available", and I can't find an option to enable SMART in the BIOS.

 

I asked on the HWiNFO forum and Martin himself says it's pulling this information from ATA Statistics. ATA Statistics is providing the wear level and HWiNFO64 is subtacting that from 100. The machine is still performing great. If I hadn't accidentally stumbled onto that I wouldn't even have noticed anything was wrong. So I'm wondering what I should do. Should I be concerned? Get ready to replace it?

 

I also noticed something that might be related (but if it isn't just disregard it). It's number 4 in this post.



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#2 hamluis

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 10:31 AM

https://www.ocz.com/us/download/ssd-utility

 

FWIW

 

I would tend to go with the results of the OCZ/Toshiba tool.

 

Louis


Edited by hamluis, 16 October 2017 - 10:50 AM.


#3 Kilroy

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 11:05 AM

While I might expect constant drive use on a machine with 4GB of RAM, I wouldn't expect i for 16GB.  Are you doing something that is causing a lot of hard drive access?

 

There is a very good possibility that HWiNFO may not be calculating the remaining life properly.

 

Modern day SSD drives should last for 100s of terabytes of writes.  Read the SSD Endurance Experiment where they wrote six SSDs until they died.  You shouldn't have anything to worry about until after 100TB of writes.



#4 Drillingmachine

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 02:04 PM

Modern day SSD drives should last for 100s of terabytes of writes.  Read the SSD Endurance Experiment where they wrote six SSDs until they died.  You shouldn't have anything to worry about until after 100TB of writes.


That's crap as they didn't test data retention. SSD may "last" 2000 TB writes but at 200 TB SSD probably can hold data for hours. After 500 TB for minutes. After 1000 TB for seconds. Those times are just examples but anyway without data retention testing, that kind of tests are totally useless.

#5 Kilroy

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Posted 16 October 2017 - 03:27 PM

That's crap as they didn't test data retention. SSD may "last" 2000 TB writes but at 200 TB SSD probably can hold data for hours. After 500 TB for minutes. After 1000 TB for seconds. Those times are just examples but anyway without data retention testing, that kind of tests are totally useless.

 

 

Starting at 300TB written they implemented a data retention check.



#6 hamluis

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 06:14 AM

FWIW, From https://www.krollontrack.com/blog/2016/05/19/hdds-vs-ssds/ :

"Should I Worry?

The reality is for normal day-to-day usage in a laptop or PC, for example, you needn’t lose sleep over the life expectancy of your storage media. Aside from an incredibly small proportion of manufacturer defects, your HDD or SSD shouldn’t give up on you easily if you’re taking care of it and keeping it away from physical hazards. If you’d like to investigate more there are many different ways to monitor the logical health of your devices; there’s ‘SMART’ tools to predict drive failures and software to check the wear and tear of SSDs in detail, including how much usable life it has left."

 

Life has proven to each of us...on a daily basis...that we can make ourselves sick emotionally and psychologically...worrying about things which we cannot imprint or control.  I do my best not to be one of those persons and I do not look for perfection in my pursuits, be they computer technology or otherwise.

 

Louis



#7 Drillingmachine

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 10:58 AM

That's crap as they didn't test data retention. SSD may "last" 2000 TB writes but at 200 TB SSD probably can hold data for hours. After 500 TB for minutes. After 1000 TB for seconds. Those times are just examples but anyway without data retention testing, that kind of tests are totally useless.

 
Starting at 300TB written they implemented a data retention check.


No?
 

Thus far, the built-in hash check hasn't reported any errors. As several of our readers have pointed out, though, the integrated test doesn't tell us whether data is retained accurately when the system is powered off. We actually considered making unpowered retention testing a staple of our regular check-ups. However, that kind of testing involves days of inactive downtime that we'd rather spend writing to the drives.

 
Understandably, making that takes too much time but it also means there is no data retention test.

Edited by Drillingmachine, 17 October 2017 - 10:59 AM.


#8 hamluis

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Posted 17 October 2017 - 12:25 PM

DM:  That is NOT what it means.

 

Those of us who are capable of reading and understanding valid test methods...and realizing that there is no "perfect, all-inclusive" test of either SSDs or hard drives...interpret those test efforts in a manner that you seem to discount.  That's your right but it doesn't mean that your interpretation of these efforts completely eliminates the results, conclusions, and opinions which can be based on such testing as has been done at this date.

 

If you don't want to respond to the OP's stated issues...I ask that you NOT take this topic off into obscurity by resorting to random remarks to those who have tried to answer the OP's questions with simple, logical answers.

 

Louis



#9 Drillingmachine

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 11:45 AM

OP already got answer that he should use manufacturers tool to check life expectancy and especially write statistics.

As for that test, OK. They tested that MLC SSD can handle around 10 000 P/E cycles with unknown data retention. That's far more than promised amount. However, without data retention testing all all useful info that can be extracted from article is that drive can handle more than promised P/E cycles if you don't have to care about data retention. That's very surprising, never would have guessed that one. That's just another example of useless test that tries to tell something useful but fails to do so. So while I say that test is useless, it really is.

I understand what you mean by off-topic issue but there are many other examples where linked article tries to tell something but it does not. Famous example: Hard disk (insert manufacturer and model here) is unreliable because Back*laze statistics say so. While Back*laze statistics may look "valid" there are many things that really do not apply (used and new drives are mixed together, loads between drives are different, temperatures between drives are different, loads are different compared to normal desktop use) that essentially makes those statistics useless for someone who is planning to buy drive for desktop use.

I don't see much wrong saying that linked article does not tell anything useful info, even if it can be considered off-topic. It's too common that articles that really haven't got any real value get much attention.

#10 Kilroy

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 12:01 PM

Understandably, making that takes too much time but it also means there is no data retention test.

 

 

And the next sentence, under the picture is, "With our 840 Series sample clearly wilting, we decided it was worth sacrificing some time on an unplugged retention test. "



#11 Drillingmachine

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 12:43 PM

Puzzled, we shut down our test systems and proceeded with the unpowered portion of the retention test. Five days later, we fired them up again and checked the files. All the drives passed, including the 840 Series.


That time sacrificed was 5 days. Too bad, Jedec standard says SSD should hold data for 1 year. Also they didn't make retention tests later because it would have taken too much time. Totally agreed. But because there were no good retention tests, about only useful info from that article are some things that are well known before (TLC less durable than MLC, SSD probably fails for some other reason than too much writes).

 

I think this off-topic is enough for me this time. Feel free to answer if you have something to add.



#12 hamluis

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 01:18 PM

OP already got answer that he should use manufacturers tool to check life expectancy and especially write statistics.

I don't see much wrong saying that linked article does not tell anything useful info, even if it can be considered off-topic. It's too common that articles that really haven't got any real value get much attention.

 

All of us in this and other hardware forums...are well-aware of the value you place on your own opinions and no one else's...we've known that from the day that you arrived and you still seem to think that you need to remind us of such...every topic ever posed by anyone here on which you seem to feel that your "expert" opinions are the only comments which matter.

 

In the future...I will just delete your excursions...and any comments made by those who respond to your favorite baiting techniques...when I feel that they are of no value, at least...not the value that you place on them.  I see such as of negative value in that they insult the intelligence and judgement of every member...since the only opinions that you value are your own.

 

It's that simple.

 

This topic is now closed since it has been sufficiently answered before wandering off the path of the OP into the strange world of one member.

 

Louis


Edited by hamluis, 18 October 2017 - 01:27 PM.





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