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Questions about cloning a hard drive


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#16 Havachat

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 02:50 AM

 

Now that i think about it, they should make some external drives with a SATA connection and then design PCs with a SATA outlet or two on the rear of the PC so they could be plugged into that and run faster..  

 

If you have a Spare bay below the DVDRW , you could buy a Sata Rack , install it and fit the Drive in the Tray...I run about 10 of these on various PCs.....https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817122108

 

Differences between Clone / Backups / Images.

 

Cloning is used to copy 1-1 Drive to Drive.

Image is used to Copy a Drive and save it Externally { EG: Just C:\ }

Backups - Vary depend on the Software Used - EG: Windows Backup will Backup what you select Docs / Pics / Video or anything you Select.

               - Or your own Backup done manually , select and save elsewhere.

 

I have never liked or trusted Backup like within windows , i personally do mine manually to an external drive , a Complete Copy of my Data Drive { D:\ } and then Paste to external Backup Drives.

 

I have never lost a file , or not had a copy saved elsewhere , and CD / DVD Disc`s are a NO NO for me to rely on.


Edited by Havachat, 20 October 2017 - 02:51 AM.


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#17 Platypus

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 06:28 AM

Now that i think about it, they should make some external drives with a SATA connection and then design PCs with a SATA outlet or two on the rear of the PC so they could be plugged into that and run faster..

Several possibilities with eSATA (external SATA) and eSATAp (external SATA powered), things like:

http://www.cablechick.com.au/cables/dual-port-esata-expansion-bracket-sata-2-sata-3-compatible.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh_qcq4j_1gIV2gYqCh20Gwg-EAYYByABEgLXWfD_BwE

https://www.startech.com/HDD/Enclosures/25-eSATA-and-USB-20-SATA-Drive-Enclosure~SAT2510BU2E

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/esata-to-sata

https://www.amazon.com/eSATAp-USB3-0-Express-Motherboard-Connector/dp/B01AN22UDY

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#18 flobiwan

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 07:21 AM

 

I have never liked or trusted Backup like within windows , i personally do mine manually to an external drive , a Complete Copy of my Data Drive { D:\ } and then Paste to external Backup Drives.

 

 

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more.  That's why my "backups" are direct copies of the data drives.  I have FreeFileSync set up to scan the drives 5 nights a week and mirror my two data drives onto two externals.  



#19 RolandJS

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 07:59 AM

While doing live backups carries a risk, I've been doing VSS/live backups with Macrium Reflect 6, now MR7, Image For Windows 2 & now 3, for some time; never had a problem with a restore.  Before MR and IFW, I used ATI/Acronis True Image, which did require either a USB or DVD boot for backup-making.


"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee."  -- Ben Franklin revisited.

http://collegecafe.fr.yuku.com/forums/45/Computer-Technologies/

Backup, backup, backup! -- Lady Fitzgerald (sevenforums)

Clone or Image often! Backup, backup, backup, backup... -- RockE (Windows Secrets Lounge)


#20 Platypus

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 08:13 AM

I used ATI/Acronis True Image, which did require either a USB or DVD boot for backup-making.


I'm a bit puzzled by this - I've been using True Image for years, and just make an image from Windows, bootable media is only needed for recovery from an image if Windows becomes unbootable or to load onto a clean HDD.

Was this a long time ago with early versions of TI?

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#21 flobiwan

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 09:13 AM

While doing live backups carries a risk, I've been doing VSS/live backups with Macrium Reflect 6, now MR7, Image For Windows 2 & now 3, for some time; never had a problem with a restore.  Before MR and IFW, I used ATI/Acronis True Image, which did require either a USB or DVD boot for backup-making.

 

I get that but the only reason i can think of to do images instead of direct copies is space and, with the low cost of external drives, i can't see the benefit of images over direct copies.



#22 RolandJS

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 10:00 AM

Platypus, ATI required and still requires (to my knowledge) a USB or DVD boot to do backups.  MR and IFW can utilize a USB or DVD boot for making backups but does not require such.  You indicated making an on-the-fly backup using Windows built-in program, it works fine many folks.  For others, not so much. 


"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee."  -- Ben Franklin revisited.

http://collegecafe.fr.yuku.com/forums/45/Computer-Technologies/

Backup, backup, backup! -- Lady Fitzgerald (sevenforums)

Clone or Image often! Backup, backup, backup, backup... -- RockE (Windows Secrets Lounge)


#23 RolandJS

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 10:02 AM

 

While doing live backups carries a risk...

 

I get that but the only reason i can think of to do images instead of direct copies is space and, with the low cost of external drives, i can't see the benefit of images over direct copies.

Direct copies = cloning, correct?  Hey, if that works fine for you and others, don't stop doing so.  I prefer full images  :)


Edited by RolandJS, 20 October 2017 - 12:47 PM.

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee."  -- Ben Franklin revisited.

http://collegecafe.fr.yuku.com/forums/45/Computer-Technologies/

Backup, backup, backup! -- Lady Fitzgerald (sevenforums)

Clone or Image often! Backup, backup, backup, backup... -- RockE (Windows Secrets Lounge)


#24 flobiwan

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 10:36 AM

Yes, it would be the same as cloning. Plus it has an additional benefit in that, if i accidentally delete a file, i can just pull the copy off of the external drive.



#25 RolandJS

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 12:50 PM

Yes, it would be the same as cloning...[and]...if i accidentally delete a file, i can just pull the copy off of the external drive.

Precisely!  I've been doing that also from my full images from time to time.  You, me, others, have built a formidable wall against data loss.


"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee."  -- Ben Franklin revisited.

http://collegecafe.fr.yuku.com/forums/45/Computer-Technologies/

Backup, backup, backup! -- Lady Fitzgerald (sevenforums)

Clone or Image often! Backup, backup, backup, backup... -- RockE (Windows Secrets Lounge)


#26 Platypus

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 06:36 PM

Platypus, ATI required and still requires (to my knowledge) a USB or DVD boot to do backups.


All my systems and several systems I maintain for other people have been backed up to images with TI since WD and Seagate made special editions available for users of their drives over 10 years ago. I've never used a bootable DVD or USB to do so, although the bootable recovery media is with each system in case it needs to do a recovery from its current image.

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#27 Platypus

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 06:39 PM

it has an additional benefit in that, if i accidentally delete a file, i can just pull the copy off of the external drive.


You can mount an image and access it just the same as if it is a drive. IMO the biggest advantage of a clone for the boot drive is you can swap drives and be back in action almost immediately, whereas restoring from an image takes some time.

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#28 RolandJS

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 08:09 PM

It has an additional benefit in that, if i accidentally delete a file, i can just pull the copy off of the external drive.


You can mount an image and access it just the same as if it is a drive. IMO the biggest advantage of a clone for the boot drive is you can swap drives and be back in action almost immediately, whereas restoring from an image takes some time.

Platypus, how often would you clone?  I'm wondering if your Data stuff on the Clone Drive was somewhat older than your Data stuff on your active internal hard-drive, and, you were forced to restore via cloning from external HD onto your active internal HD, would the "time-loss" of your Data be a problem?


"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee."  -- Ben Franklin revisited.

http://collegecafe.fr.yuku.com/forums/45/Computer-Technologies/

Backup, backup, backup! -- Lady Fitzgerald (sevenforums)

Clone or Image often! Backup, backup, backup, backup... -- RockE (Windows Secrets Lounge)


#29 Havachat

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 02:45 AM

Platypus, ATI required and still requires (to my knowledge) a USB or DVD boot to do backups.  MR and IFW can utilize a USB or DVD boot for making backups but does not require such.  You indicated making an on-the-fly backup using Windows built-in program, it works fine many folks.  For others, not so much. 

 

ATI requires { To Your Knowledge } a USb or DVD boot to do Backups = Incorrect.

 

To do Backups with Acronis { 2010 } you just use the ATI Consol within Windows and save your created Image wherever you like , 2nd Partition or Externally.

 

I have found that restoring Images on problem PCs sometimes has to be done by Booting from the Boot Disk { CD } to reininstall the Image from either the D: Partition as i do , or an External Drive.

I assume you could Boot from a USB / DVD to boot the PC and then load an Image , but its not needed to do the Initial Image.

 

 

Platypus, how often would you clone?  I'm wondering if your Data stuff on the Clone Drive was somewhat older than your Data stuff on your active internal hard-drive, and, you were forced to restore via cloning from external HD onto your active internal HD, would the "time-loss" of your Data be a problem?

 

True , but who would Clone Back to the Internal drive ? The whole idea of the Clone would be to just swap the Drives.

And as you said any Data from the Clone would be Old - True Also.

 

So it still bewilders me that in these days people still have Data on a C:\ , keep it lean with the Operating System only as you can always grab Updates anytime after a reimage , and Personal Data saved Offline is a must these days.

 

Platypus - i think is on the same page as me in using Acronis and how it works , i agree with his statements as being correct.



#30 Platypus

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 09:11 AM

Platypus, how often would you clone?  I'm wondering if your Data stuff on the Clone Drive was somewhat older than your Data stuff on your active internal hard-drive, and, you were forced to restore via cloning from external HD onto your active internal HD, would the "time-loss" of your Data be a problem?


A clone has the disadvantage that it is an all-or-nothing measure, whereas imaging can have a master image and small differential backups (unless you're using the free Special Edition of True Image, which lacks this capability). However for myself, I use full system images rather than cloning the drive, and I backup after major installations, or several months of Windows updates.

I think the only situation I would countenance a clone backup drive would be at my church, where the system installation is long-term stable, and there could be an advantage in quick turn-around if the system drive failed. However we've never actually had a drive failure, and since we converted over to SSD for the system drive, budget hasn't allowed a redundant drive to be a priority. However if we keep the current system long enough for the SSD to show wear, by then I may have updated from my own smaller SSD which is identical to the one in the church computer, and it could become free to hold a clone.

Edited by Platypus, 21 October 2017 - 09:15 AM.

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