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Windows Update?


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#1 Threesom666

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 02:48 PM

Just did a Windows update though still left out a couple of big files. Now Im not a fan of updating and consuming memory but did it to try to improve my system and for security. But Ive noticed Ive noticed in the past that some updates can mess up the computer specifically in windows update. Did I do something wrong in updating? Also should I continue to update the other files that I didnt because they were just too big? I dont know why they just dont take out one stable version without the need to continue to update risking it being unstable. Fixing it on one end and messing it up at another. Ive also been a former xp user but have liked using 7. Should I stop at 7 or should I update that to another version? Ive heard a lot of bad things of win 10.


Edited by hamluis, 06 September 2017 - 08:21 AM.
Moved from Win 7 to W10 Discussion - Hamluis.

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#2 saw101

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 07:09 PM

Just did a Windows update though still left out a couple of big files. Now Im not a fan of updating and consuming memory but did it to try to improve my system and for security. But Ive noticed Ive noticed in the past that some updates can mess up the computer specifically in windows update. Did I do something wrong in updating? Also should I continue to update the other files that I didnt because they were just too big? I dont know why they just dont take out one stable version without the need to continue to update risking it being unstable. Fixing it on one end and messing it up at another. Ive also been a former xp user but have liked using 7. Should I stop at 7 or should I update that to another version? Ive heard a lot of bad things of win 10.

Well, I recall hearing bad things about Win 7 when it was introduced. Heck, probably every version of windows has had its detractors. I for one am quite happy with Win 7 & 10. And I really liked XP. I still have one for offline use only.

 

I would continue to allow the Important Security updates. What do you consider as being too big? The offered recommended or optional updates are just that. Some I might take, others I choose to ignore. As to moving up from Win 7 to 10, is your computer up to it? We would like some specs before saying Yes or No.


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#3 Threesom666

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 11:10 PM

I like xp but I realized its too complicated to the point of not having in attraction. Ive noticed the newer the computers the simpler they are. I didnt want to try win 7 but was forced to it and found it simpler and more effective than xp. I think it was even lighter on disc space. One of my favorite features is the quick searches and the ability to search within documents by words something that it couldnt happen in xp. Just based on that I give 7 a higher up. Though I liked the many features and fan customs on xp. I did find it over complicating and cluttery. Easier to get viruses as well. In 7, everything is simpler and Ive yet to get a serious virus. I dont deal much with the system whereas in xp I had to deal with it a lot.

 

lol. with all its updates usually passed the 4mb size. I havent updated passport i think or netport. Dont remember. I have it like in 3.5 I think. Just all these updates eat up space and to me defeats the purpose of having a pc.

 

Win 10 Ive heard is bloatwear and useless.


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#4 britechguy

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 08:59 AM

Windows 10 is neither bloatware nor useless.   I will admit, though, that I hate the trend (and it started with Windows 8/8.1) toward "flat look" user interfaces, which have become ubiquitous. 

 

I don't like them for myself because they don't give enough visual relief/distinction between controls and other elements and yesterday another person on the moderating team sent me this article which contains the first "hard data" I've seen that confirms my own suspicion:  It's official: Users navigate flat UI designs 22 per cent slower

 

I work with visually impaired clients quite frequently and it was immediately clear to me that these "flat look" UIs are much, much harder for them to navigate.

 

I loved Windows XP and Windows 7, hated Windows 8/8.1 on the whole, and love Windows 10.  It is the perfect marriage between what was loved in Windows up through Windows 7 and the good elements (and there were some) that came along in the Windows 8 era.  Unlike Windows 8, it doesn't pretend that the UI can or should be "exactly the same" regardless of the platform and it's a lot more mouse-friendly than Windows 8 was (it always seemed to me that the base presumption of the Windows 8 UI was that everyone was using a touch-enabled device of some kind and would never use a mouse.)


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#5 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:31 AM

Just did a Windows update though still left out a couple of big files. Now Im not a fan of updating and consuming memory but did it to try to improve my system and for security. But Ive noticed Ive noticed in the past that some updates can mess up the computer specifically in windows update. Did I do something wrong in updating? Also should I continue to update the other files that I didnt because they were just too big? I dont know why they just dont take out one stable version without the need to continue to update risking it being unstable. Fixing it on one end and messing it up at another. Ive also been a former xp user but have liked using 7. Should I stop at 7 or should I update that to another version? Ive heard a lot of bad things of win 10.

 

 

Windows 10 updates are fast, safe and accumulative. There is no need to worry, just install whatever updates the system has ready for you.

 

 

You will not find any problems with Windows 10. It is a beautifully executed operating system.


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#6 Just_One_Question

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 04:40 PM

I will admit, though, that I hate the trend (and it started with Windows 8/8.1) toward "flat look" user interfaces, which have become ubiquitous. 

 

I don't like them for myself because they don't give enough visual relief/distinction between controls and other elements

I actually somewhat like the flat look as an extension to simplicity, but for exactly the reason that you pointed out, think that they got it wrong. They made everything flat, whereas it should have been flat with visually protruding controls. The test that they should have done, I believe, was to get a group of people, usually older folks, who have never operated a computer, explained to them the concept of clicking and then asked them "What here is clickable?". On Windows 7, if I remember correctly, I've seen novice people have the problem of not understanding where the border of a folder window is, because the borders of the folder were semi-transparent with the wallpaper (or whatever is placed in the background to the folder one is currently looking at). Now, I am not an expert on design, but I think pretty much all products should aim for simplicity, de-clutterness and cleanness, but not at the expense of clarity (in the sense that you should relatively-automatically know which does what). For example, I've seen babies turn on the lights in a room with the classic *click* button on the wall, always located by the door through which you're walking in. In that sense I kinda dislike in terms of an idea such features as the 'swipe down to view more' in Android, for example. I am 100% sure that no person who has never owned a smartphone or a touchscreen device will be able to figure out that you can drag the top of the screen down for more options on their own, apart from either luck, or trying everything out. I don't want tech to be completely child-like either, since after all it is a novelty and some sort of a learning curve is expected, but it certainly doesn't help that new gadgets don't have a comprehensive operational manual in their package, even though they don't offer a product that is completely intuitive that you wouldn't ever need one. Seriously, remember when phones came with a user's manual that went through all their features - every single one. And further back, the Commodore 64 came with a user's manual that basically thought you BASIC (See what I did there, basically - BASIC, lol...). Once again, I am not a designer, but I can't comprehend how Windows 10, being a 15+GB OS, didn't have something as simple as coloring the "X", at the top-right of every screen, in red color (Mind you, not put it in a red square, but simply changing the color of the font of the "X" symbol to red). I am starting to think, even though I haven't really delved much into research on the topic, that Steve Jobs really was a visionary and companies such as Apple and others are somewhat lost and chaotic without him and others like that.

I am just going to finish by saying that Windows XP was the first OS that I was personally in control of and by the time I had developed experience with it, I was able to go through every single folder, hidden or not, in the whole OS in under an hour - in fact since I didn't know English that was how I tried to fix problems by finding leftovers of old files or virus-looking ones and manually deleting them, lol. In essence, Windows XP was an older cars' engine with easily accessible parts that you can reach by hand and Windows 10 is a better-functioning Mercedes, but has that cover on its engine and everything is so tightly-packed that you need at least a PhD in mechanics and engineering to change the air-filter. :lmao:

In conclusion, UIs are getting flatter and it would appear that the minds behind creating them are too. The idea of them is simplicity, but it falls short in realizing that vision, leaving its users oftentimes scratching their heads. With that being said, Windows XP is practically almost completely obsolete if you want to access the Internet and Windows 10 is the way to go. :)

 

TL;DR: I had male leggings when I was in kinder garden, looking like Peter Pan, of which I could never figure out which way was front and which back and I also found them pretty hard to put on. I haven't worn male leggings since kinder garden.

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Edited by Just_One_Question, 06 September 2017 - 04:51 PM.


#7 Threesom666

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 02:30 PM

Okay after hearing the opposite here really threw me off. But here are a few articles of the many online the criticize win 10. One being of some users but that is common expression. Example the I dont... poem.

https://itvision.altervista.org/why-windows-10-sucks.html

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-start/windows-10-sucks/f487e494-c32e-49d8-b690-d6d8a2b45f13



JOQ- Is that your gf? Love the adidas strips. lol. Interesting elaborate story. I read it all. I just had xp and could use the internet just fine. So dont know what you mean. I rather stick to 7 to which you did little comparasion to having to being heavily disappointed by 10.

I wouldnt like the x to be red. Though Ive heard that rumor that jobs left apple dead by morons. What is your conclusion on ubunto?

And yes I am one of those users that figured it out on how to use cells but agree they deserve manuals and actual ones. Not the ad crap they give it. But ultimately I think its all a big waste of time and useless. I rather stick to those old mini cellphones or even beepers that way I dont have hear the other idiots voice on the other side of the phone. Get the message and go on with it. Though I used to think the same thing about tablets but have one now and LOVE IT!

Atthebaar who'd you take?
 


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#8 britechguy

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 03:12 PM

One should never, and I mean never, trust or believe "rant articles" or threads of any sort anywhere.  It's that simple since nothing is entirely black or white, but myriad shades of gray.  Windows haters love to hate on Windows, but they're hardly objective, and neither are Microsoft fanboys and fangirls at the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

You could probably find precisely the same sort of rants regarding Windows 7 if you use the right search terms.  

 

Windows 10, like all OSes, is not perfect to any given user.  It is by far and away the most stable version of Windows I've ever dealt with, and that included in the early phases, and it's much better now.  It's got its problems, but they're no worse than any other OS I've played with.


Edited by britechguy, 07 September 2017 - 03:12 PM.

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#9 Just_One_Question

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 04:09 PM

Lol, dude, my romantic life is as dead as the ideas of Windows 8's graphic designers (badumtsss). It's just a picture from googling "female gopnik". :lmao:

Yes, Windows 7 is great! I personally think it's the best ever Windows OS after XP (with the era it was released in taken into consideration). It still has a couple of years of support and basically combines the best of Windows XP and Windows 10. When I said that Windows XP was rather dangerous for online use, I meant that it is no longer supported with updates from Microsoft, which makes it vulnerable to hacker attacks. You will not have a problem with it, though, if you practice safe browsing habits (not downloading anything stupid, etc.) and don't use your credit or debit card, if you have one, online for purchases. With that being said, Windows XP will never again be fully safe as it was before and since it is now discontinued by Microsoft, and fewer and fewer people use it, more and more programs, such as Chrome browser, for example, will no longer have versions of their programs for Windows XP. Windows 7 is good, though. Ubuntu and the Linux community are pretty great, mainly in that they are free, but they have a relatively steep learning curve and also have many versions, so it might seem pretty hard at first navigating through all the information. Usually, the 3 best Linux distros (short for distributions - Linux community's way of saying 'versions'), in my opinion, are Ubuntu, Mint and Puppy. They are relatively similar to Windows and are a good free alternative if you are willing to learn how to operate them.

As for your tablet, don't worry, back in 2012 I proclaimed Android as '100% sure thing to die off' and 'completely dumb'. I was using Android 2.1 on my 2nd ever smartphone and it sucked so much. However, nowadays Android has caught up with iOS a lot more and has become pretty neat. Sometimes, views change. :)


Edited by Just_One_Question, 07 September 2017 - 04:11 PM.


#10 Threesom666

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 06:12 PM

Im using right now ubunto zesty. 17.04 on another pc and it does its learning curves though im a complete beginner. I just dont like some of its many bugs but I like how simple and protected it is. Since I download a lot of illegal stuff I prefer it over the stupid virus catching windows plus I dont need some gigantic antivirus to stay protected.

 

I dont know why companies stop supporting old os since they are useful in many ways and are bound to get some users still having them. Other than the obvious. Ambition of money and wanting to have its customers at its knees.


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#11 rp88

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 12:41 PM

I think this topic needs a note added for clarity, especially given what is said in the first two posts. Updating windows is not the same as upgrading windows. UpDATES keep you secure and fix bugs, upGRADES change the whole OS. Windows XP no longer gets updates at all, it isn't possible to keep a windows XP machine properly secure unless it's a completely offline device. safe browsing habits aren't really enough given the number of vulnerabilities in XP, even with a secure browser and script blocking and antiexploit protection and a good antivirus and antimlaware you still aren't sully safe on XP. 7, 8.1 and 10 all get security updates, 7 and 8.1 will keep getting them for some years to come, windows 10 might keep getting them for a longer time or might stop getting them a certain number of years after a machine type went on sale (I'v never been quite sure what the conclusion to that debate was and how long a given win 10 machine will be supported for).

You can keep secure without upGRADING but you ought to keep upDATED with the security updates.

Things get a bit more complex when you consider the frankly malicious updates (KB2976978, KB3035583, and a few more)which a few years back were used to attempt to force an upGRADE. Three cheers to Germany for being the only nation to condemn these kinds of GWX update as being wrong. However at present there aren't any of those nasty updates being spread any more, the GWX period finished in summer of 2016 and there are only a few occurences of computers being hit by it since then.

My advice for windows 7 and 8.1 users is to check for updates automatically, and manually install all the security ones but none of the rest, thesedays you have to manually download the "Security only monthly roll up" updates from ms's update catalog website after ignoring the "Security and quality monthly..." updates. With windows 10 you don't get any ability to properly control the updates being applied, there are apparently tricks to block updates but these block ALL updates rather than letting you selectively apply a subset of those available.

In post #10 you say you have ubuntu, updating this should be fairly easy, and if you haven't changed any defaults will be largely automatic. Unless you actually need a windows machine so that you can run windows only programs I would suggest sticking with ubuntu, I would also recommend that all those illegal downloads you say you do are not the best practice for keeping your system secure, even linux CAN get viruses despite them being rare.

If you do have windows programs you need to run, consider trying wine on linux (it works for some windows programs but it is a matter of whether you are lucky with the specific program in question), or see if there are any linux versions of it, or equivalents which are similar enough to be acceptable to you. If none of those tips work and you therefore need a windows OS for any windows only programs you need to run then the pick between 7, 8.1 and 10 is yours to choose as you prefer.

There are arguments for all three, personally I'd pick 7 or 8.1 over 10 as 10 is what I would consider to be overly dependent on and controlled by ms's servers rather than being fully user controlled (basically because you can't control updates on 10 ms can push any change they like to your machine at any time, there is no reason that something unwelcome or highly buggy necessarily would be sent to you, but there is nothing on 10 you can do to stop it). If you picked 8.1 you'd have to make quite a bit of deliberate effort during setup to change certain defaults to avoid the horrible tablety interface and all the store and ms account related stuff, if you do this you can use it much like 7 when you stick to the desktop interface. Any of those three can be kept secure and they all still receive updates. Getting hold of windows 7 or 8.1 isn't so easy now, there might be install media on sale somewhere but only from any stocks that still haven't been sold since the date that the availability of 7 and 8.1 officially ended but a lot of these stocks were quickly consumed especially for windows 7.

Edited by rp88, 15 September 2017 - 12:44 PM.

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#12 Just_One_Question

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 03:33 PM

True. By the way, I also wasn't saying that Windows XP can be completely secure if you are mindful, but rather somewhat secure, as, whereas there are many holes in Windows XP, the Internet doesn't have that many viruses on it. From all the versions currently supported, I like Windows 7 best and Windows 10 afterwards. :)


Edited by Just_One_Question, 15 September 2017 - 03:34 PM.


#13 Threesom666

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 02:08 AM

Rp88

Thank you for such a great post.

Yes this thread is mostly about updating.

I have read in certain threads that updating certain things in win 7 causes conflicts. Similar things happen to me in xp where I updated something and it messed something else up to the point of unable to downgrade or would sometimes have to do reinstall OS. One time I updated the bios and found out it was worst than the original since I am weary of that and also dont like space consumptation I thought about coming here first before continuing to update and to be informed as well.

I also have seen the monthly security update for a whopping 40mbs and dont think I should do it. Would it be 40mbs every month?


Ubunto: Updating is easy but I am a brand new user and did think about using ubunto over win7 on my win 7 pc but have had issues with ubunto. For starters i am more familiar with win 7 and though I like ubunto's simplicity I miss certain aspects of win so I've kept it for now. Ive yet to try the crossover programs like win and crossover which ive heard about. Another thing that Ive encountered which is strange is though updates are very easy to come by they dont come with some glitches. Ill be posting all my ubunto issues when Im able and ready at the ubunto board.

I actually think its true about linux being so secure. I dont see me getting any viruses or few there. But it also takes away from all the common fun stuff win has to offer.

Most of my linux type win programs I have tried though I have liked have come short to my expectations. But I have taken so far that I'd take anything over viruses and hugh space antivirus hogs. The only thing is that its ubunto has been a bit glitchy. So far I have accepted the trade offs.

I have picked win 7 only because I am familiar with it and have come to like it. So far oddly I havent gotten any viruses though I also havent been downloading a lot illegal stuff. But I also like its simplicity and its quick features. Overall the OS hasnt given me any problems. Though when I started using I really didnt like it simplicity. I found some quick workarounds on the net but you have to admit xp had a lot more fans and user submitted art work with a lot more features. Though I suspect those same abilities opened it up easily viruses. Now I mostly try to keep a simple decorative OS but also problem free.



I hate not having the ability to control. Almost to the point that I rather not use it. My antivirus is MSE and I hate its updates. I even did try several update tricks like you suggested but that didnt work. Now I dont need as often and lately it hasnt given me many issues. But I hate when they update and Im in the middle of something. I hate that I cant control it and update it when I want. Its very annoying and problematic. Though Ive kept it because Ive noticed it protects me well, it doesnt give me a problem, its light, doesnt consume much HD, and I dont need the new antivirus that are hell to deal with. Ive used several. But I really dont like the automatic random update if you have any tips to shut it down. I'd like to hear them. If I cant stand that I would even less like an OS that does it automatically. What a nightmare that would be for me. I barely update win 7 once like every 6 months and now im coming for that to see if I should continue to do that. But im glad its like that rather than being updated automatically.


hahaha. I didnt know that about win 7, and 8.1 very informative. What about ebay? they dont sell them? My win 7 is hacked by the way. I did it myself. It was hell to do it too. I had to get rid of viruses the hack gave me. But now its perfect. I actually didnt want it but the pc I got for free came with it and I started to use it and I guess using it cauased me to be curious to use it some more. Eventually what I thought would be easy to hack was hard. It came hacked but the hack that came with it was a bad one. It would give the registration need problem and I think it would erase certain things, not have its full features, nag on the registration, and be a bit unstable. Once I got that everything worked normal. I didnt even have mse then Once I got that helped big time. I originally wanted to go back to xp. I just thought 7 was pretty decent and I just wanted to try it. Because of all of this I havent gone back. Just the search feature where I can type a word and it searches my documents has kept me here. Among its simplicity and less viruses.
 

 

 

True. By the way, I also wasn't saying that Windows XP can be completely secure if you are mindful, but rather somewhat secure, as, whereas there are many holes in Windows XP, the Internet doesn't have that many viruses on it. From all the versions currently supported, I like Windows 7 best and Windows 10 afterwards. :)

Another vote for win 7. I most likely keep it as the best win but might consider ubunto in the future depending on my experience there.

Contraily I actually think the internet is full of viruses, hacks, and scams. My experience anyway. Especially a lot of the places I visit.

Ive also heard win 10 has a lot of bloat, is terrible, automatic as above, ooh and one more is that its for big brother.

 


Edited by Threesom666, 16 September 2017 - 02:13 AM.

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#14 rp88

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 09:03 AM

Post #13 "One time I updated the bios..."
Don't, firmware updates and updates to low level stuff like this should only ever be done if there is actually a problem with the firmware you currently have. Except in a very small number of cases, like the recent stuff with intel management engine, BIOS/UEFI/firmware and other low level stuff doesn't suffer from security vulnerabilities as it doesn't face the internet usually, so the only reason to update is if yours isn't working properly and an update is available to get it to work ok on machines of whatever type you have. Only update the OS and any programs which are internet facing, and when updating the OS look at exactly which updates are available, apply all which close vulnerabilities then for those which add features or fix non-security bugs choose the ones you actually want or need and ignore the rest.

You can expect security updates to be more like 80MB for windows most months (400 or so MB if you do all the feature updates too), and maybe 50 to 100MB of updates for other important things like antivirus and browser(s). Unless our connecton is really bad the security updates for windows, and the updates for browsers/antivirus shouldn't be too problematic for you, although I will admit that the "quality" updates windows does (they are all cumulative now but in such a way that all of them contain all the previous ones so you can't just download the things that have actually changed recently) are a bit big.

If ubuntu has been glitchy then someone in the linux forum can probably tell you how to fix it, the solution will likely be just running a few special terminal commands which they'll give you to copy and paste.

As for MS security essentials as your antivirus, pick a different one instead*, Avast (my choice), AVG (I used a while ago) or the free version of bitdefender (is widely recommended on here but not to my personal liking) but make sure to only get the antivirus and not to run any performance tools being offered by the antivirus company, performance tools usually mess things up. You can set these so they update as suits you, I have definitions automatically updating and I have the program warn me and ask for my permission to download (at a time that suits me) when an update to the AV software comes out.

* Why? Because every month windows release an update called KB890830, if you download and run this it checks for anything that windows defender (security essentials) would find. So best to have a different antitvirus with a different set of definitions as your AV, then use windows defender's definitions for a monthly scan with kb890830. Also I really hate windows defender (ms security essentials) as it doesn't have the option to scan a specific file when you right click, avast,avg,bitdefender... all do have this right-click to scan feature.

Edited by rp88, 21 September 2017 - 09:06 AM.

Back on this site, for a while anyway, been so busy the last year.

My systems:2 laptops, intel i3 processors, windows 8.1 installed on the hard-drive and linux mint 17.3 MATE installed to USB

#15 britechguy

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 09:30 AM

 Also I really hate windows defender (ms security essentials) as it doesn't have the option to scan a specific file when you right click, avast,avg,bitdefender... all do have this right-click to scan feature.

 

I won't even try to address all of the inaccuracies in that last post, but this image, had ought to address this last one:

 

Attached File  Context_Menu_WinDefender.jpg   41.82KB   0 downloads

 

and that option has been there for as long as I can remember in both Windows 8.1 and Windows 10.

 

As to Windows Updates, no one has said it better than our own BSOD Expert, usasma:

 

There really isn't a point to checking for updates and not installing them. . .  It's important to install all available updates. I've been doing this since the days of DOS, and I still don't have the confidence to pick and choose among updates.  There are just too many variables involved - and most people can't evaluate the full consequences of installing/not installing updates.

        ~ John Carrona, AKA usasma on BleepingComputer.com, http://www.carrona.org/


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website address in my profile) Windows 10 Home, 64-bit, Version 1709, Build 16299

       

    Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
              

 





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