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Might want to build, jurys still out...


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#16 MadmanRB

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 04:26 PM

I personally ignore benchmarks that say intel is better as really benchmakrs are more as a reference and no indication in real world usage.

Ryzen is good, good for the money and good for the market as Intel has dominated for far too long.

Sure you will need a GPU to use it but GPU's do great for rendering videos too :D


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#17 SEANIA

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 06:16 PM

When you look at physical, in game results, the 7700k seems to perform better- and it does.

 

Most games today, like the lower core, higher single thread, and easier-to-access power of Intel CPUs. The performance difference in single thread between them and AMDs Ryzen, is about 15% (depending on clock speeds and how you measure it). So for games that only use 4 cores well, you see a 10 to 15% performance bump.

 

For games made today, in general, Intel CPUs are higher/better performing. That is fact.

 

However, when you look at CPU usage during these games- the Intel CPUs (and I'm referring to the non workstation socket ones), are pegged to 100%. They are running as fast and as hard as they can, using every last resource they can muster. They have ZERO head room left, nada, zilch, nothing. When you look at AMDs Ryzen though, nearly half the CPU is completely unused. These CPUs aren't breaking a sweat, are barely being touched, and are only 10 to 15% behind in benchmarks that only use half of their power.

 

My point is, the current consoles run 8 core CPUs, and both Vulcan and DirectX12, that the games are being made on top of for PC from here on out, can utilize all the power of AMDs Ryzen. Ryzen has room to do more, where what the quad cores Intel have right now do not. If someone gets a 7700k right now- they're metaphorically shooting themselves in the foot, because in 4 or 5 years. That Intel CPU they bought is going to be a good 40% behind what the Ryzen CPU they could've bought at the time could do. Even further down the road, there will be games that the 4 core Intel literally can not and wil not even launch, because it doesn't meet the minimum core count requirement for a game. Where, it's not even a artificial cut off, the game doesn't know how to handle running all that on 4 cores. 

 

If you want to still game 5 years from now, on the same CPU, buy AMDs Ryzen.

 

For some of you that may seem dumb, but "We'll I'll just get a new system then" isn't an option for everyone. Blowing three grand a PC, and 650$ on a graphics card, like it's pocket change, isn't a realistic path for most. To be more realistic, spending 650$ on a PC isn't a option for most people, but when it is, they want it to last as long as possible. I stil buy 25$ Phenom II x6's for 200$ budget builds for people- because that's what they can afford, and you know what? That Phenom made no obvious sense to buy at the time it came out, just like the Ryzen 5/7, but guess what- it's still usable today. 


Edited by SEANIA, 15 August 2017 - 06:52 PM.

99% of the time, I edit for type-o's and grammar. I'll note it if that's not the case. 

I write near essays for most my responses, and then try to condense as best I can to the introduction of one. Less is more. Let me know if I post to much. 

I do a lot of spacing for readability. Let me know if that makes my posts seem to big. 


#18 dl250

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 01:05 PM

Photo manipulation, that's all I know. I could probably find the video again to see what programs he was using. He was more neutral than others on youtube though..

 

I don't know anyone that has either of these, or I would be more interested in playing with them vs looking at benchmarks.

 

I'm not looking at getting a 7700k, or a dedicated gaming rig. I might use it for gaming at some point but don't know for sure that i would. The i5 was all esscalation for me. Started with a g4560, looked into upgrades for it, i3 7100, etc, but if i wanted a k series down the road I'd need a clockable mb to go with it, putting that in now would be almost double the cpu cost. All escalation...

 

When it comes down to it a g4560 would be better than this laptop. The i5 7600k, doubles this things performance, and is the top of my price point for a full build, coming in around the same price as signature series/lower end mac prebuilt... It'd be quite a bit lower if I found some deals, and skips a big chunk of upgrade path... So that's really how I got there, and there isn't much of a cpu upgrade path, but I wouldn't have to upgrade a mb and cpu to fully use k series, there would be at least i7 left. I could risk picking up a used one when someone else upgraded for the latest and greatest.

 

And with the budget, I more than get that. Definitely no 3k budget for me.. The other side to this, not actually looking for an answer, is how many of those 200$ builds went into a home with one or more phones that cost more. Than unless new cpus need new ram, you don't actually need to buy everything again, you can upgrade with a new cpu and mb, and use most of your old stuff. 

 

I'm still looking into ryzen. Nobody said they don't make sense , if anything the opposite is true. There are two negatives for me. I don't really want to have to get a gpu until the market changes. Seems they are all going to miners still. If ethereum goes pos, and at the same time the new mining specific cards come out... That for me would be the time to pick up a gpu... They are brand spanking new, and that's a risk. There could be a reward with it, or it could go the other way. The i5 is a little older itself, with not much changed from the previous gen. So less risk to me...


Edited by dl250, 17 August 2017 - 01:07 PM.


#19 SEANIA

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Posted 17 August 2017 - 10:42 PM

The i5 was all esscalation for me. Started with a g4560, looked into upgrades for it, i3 7100, etc, but if i wanted a k series down the road I'd need a clockable mb to go with it, putting that in now would be almost double the cpu cost. All escalation...

 

In that case, I'd check out the Ryzen R3 series. There's 4 real cores in them, just like the i5, but for only 110$, and only a 15% performance decrease. Unlike the Intel platform, the socket is good till 2020- so plenty of optional upgrade room down the road if you wanted/needed it.

 

The other side to this, not actually looking for an answer, is how many of those 200$ builds went into a home with one or more phones that cost more.

One or two, but most went into homes with 50$ dollar store smart phones.

 

A lot of people don't get that, just cause someone has the money to blow on a gaming PC, doesn't mean they want to. They may only be dipping their toes in to see if they like it- so why throw 600$ at if if you can do 200$ and still get a decent experience? Yeah, they may have a 600$ smart phone- but they literally use that every day. Where as with the gaming PC....they might touch it barely once a week. That way if they end up not liking it- no real lose.

 

 

don't really want to have to get a gpu until the market changes. Seems they are all going to miners still. If ethereum goes pos, and at the same time the new mining specific cards come out... That for me would be the time to pick up a gpu... 

 

 Actually the lower end market isn't being effected. A Radeon RX 560/460 is still only 100-120$ USD, of it's 100$ MSRP.

 

Lower end cards don't tend to meet crypto currency miners power/performance ratio requirements. They're also very easy for manufacturers to produce in large enough quantities to out-way any desperate demand from miners. Think its close to 4x the amount of chips they get out of a lower end card-run then the mid teir cards. Lets them keep up with the demand. 

 

Getting off topic a bit, back onto it- wouldn't be a bad move to pick up one of those. Lets you experiment with GPU rendering in programs.


99% of the time, I edit for type-o's and grammar. I'll note it if that's not the case. 

I write near essays for most my responses, and then try to condense as best I can to the introduction of one. Less is more. Let me know if I post to much. 

I do a lot of spacing for readability. Let me know if that makes my posts seem to big. 


#20 dl250

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 11:15 AM

One other thing i was wondering about. I think its legal for me to backup my dvd collection. If i did get a big enough hard drive to hold them, can I play these on the tv from the computer? I'd imagine they are all protected, but i do own them, so as i understand it, it's legal. I have about 200 or so, I doubt i'd want them all on there, I have some that I've never watched. I think i'd fill a 1tb hard drive, don't really think I'd do it if it takes the 4hrs per movie that I've read it will take. I don't know if it still takes that long, couldn't find a date from when that was info was from.



#21 jonuk76

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 07:29 PM

Yes you can play them on a TV through the computer.  Just connect via a HDMI cable and use a decent media player, like VLC or Media Player Classic HC to play the "ripped" files.  What I tend to do though is re-encode them.  MPEG2, as used on DVD's is comparatively ancient and inefficient compared to more modern codecs like H.264 or VP9.  For example, 8 Gb of DVD footage can be re-encoded to a smaller than 2 Gb MP4 file, with the original soundtrack, and with little if any perceivable quality loss on the picture.  This just makes for a more efficient use of storage. Also far more Smart TV's are able to play MP4/MKV/AVI files directly (without using a computer), compared to the folder full of .vob and .ifo files you get from a DVD.

 

BTW re-encoding time is very dependent on the hardware and the codec settings used.  With my i5, converting standard definition stuff to H.264 with high quality settings in Handbrake, I can normally do in 2-3x real time (i.e. a 2 hr film takes 40-60 mins-ish).  HD is normally roughly real time or thereabouts.  A 6 core Ryzen should be somewhat faster, while a Pentium G4560 will be slower.



#22 dl250

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 08:14 PM

This is legal to do? I don't know if its the same in the UK, and i don't know what a protected dvd is... I have read that it can cause some sort of an issue though. Does playing a movie slow down the pc at all? Could I play a dvd and browse the web at the same time with out much performance loss? I had some in divx format growing up, back when a 20gb hard drive was good, and they sucked. The pc struggled to play the movie.



#23 jonuk76

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 09:04 PM

The means to do it are out there, as they are to, for example, rip your own CD collection so you can use it on your media player.  It's up to the individual to check legality in their own area.  That's all I'll say on that.

 

On a modern PC playback at DVD resolutions doesn't slow it down noticeably.  It barely notches up the CPU activity.  In some cases it's GPU assisted, which offloads even more of the work from the CPU. 4K video's on the other hand, can use up significant amounts of CPU, and could skip on older/slower PC's.  Encoding uses large amounts of CPU power, in fact it's expected to see 100% CPU use most of the time when encoding using multi-threaded software.






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