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Wrong Or Right? What Should The Punishment Be?


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#1 yoopergirl

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Posted 13 September 2006 - 11:50 PM

hey guys, I've never started my own topic but this has really been weighing on me and I need honest opinions from others who are in no way involved.

What happened: A friend of my daughters from High School (17 yr's old) was at a party (with alcohol involved) over summer vacation with some other friends (my daughter wasn't there that night thankfully but I have no clue why. lol) It wasn't their party and they didn't get served because the party people were "responsible" adults. After being turned away for alcohol they were just sitting there at a camp fire talking and whatever teens do. While they were gabbing they heard a women screaming for help, they had heard some arguing etc earlier but didn't really pay attention until they heard her help calls. They walked over to see what was up and they saw a young man, 26 pushing his girlfriend around and hitting her etc. The couple had a male friend camping with them who wasn't doing anything about the situation and also three young children) My daughters friend (I'll call him Jim) being the ever the gentleman stepped in and told the man to stop hitting her, the man got loud and they ended up scraping with Jim (big kid) ending up on top holding the man down. The man gave up and said he'd stop etc. Saying it wouldn't happen again, Jim got up and began walking away with his friends, he got about 20 yards from the campsite when he was tackled by the friend of the couple and struck in the back of the head with a bar (later determined to be horse-shoe pit iron bar) by the woman beater and he didn't remember anything after that until he woke in the hospital. He wasn't cared for at our local hospital because they weren't equipped so he was immediately delivered to the nearest large hospital. He almost died, three of his doctors there told him he shouldn't have survived, one even saying he "should be an organ donor right now." His head was hit sooo hard that they couldn't tell if he was hit on the side of the head and the pressure caused the top of his skull to crack open or vice versa.

Amazingly the cops called to investigate believed the still intoxicated woman beater and his drunken friend over the teen witnesses who were there when the men said that at least 14 teens accosted he and his family and he was "DEFENDING" himself. They somehow ended up arresting the woman who was beaten and that's all that happened. The police allowed the still drunk man to drive his kids home from the campsite and he was never questioned about the incident again.

Meanwhile Jim recovering, made several attempts along with his family to have this man arrested for at least assult received no justice. None at all. Picture it, a man almosts kills you under these circumstances and your told it was self defense? Meanwhile the family is hearing that the woman beater guy lives right up the street from them and is now carrying a gun for PROTECTION.

Next part: About a month later Jim is at the towns fourth of July celebration (not worried about the woman beater cause he's now in jail for car theft) and he sees the man that tackled him allowing the woman beater to hit and almost kill him. He freaks out and kicks the crap out of this guy, royally.

Next part: Jim is IN JAIL awaiting his pre trial and sentencing which should happen at the beginning of next month. He's being charged with who knows what but because he kicked the man, his boots are being considered a dangerous weapon. He isn't allowed to go to the "work camp" which would enable him to go to school because the WOMAN BEATER (turns out he had other warrants in other states for assaults and attempted murder) is currently there and they fear that big bad Jim may attack him as well.

What's your opinion about this guys? Was Jim wrong for taking matters into his own hands? If so what should his punishment be? I dont agree with violence, I don't think that it is ever the ANSWER, however, I can't bring myself to say that Jim was wrong either, clearly these men deserved some sort of punishment. I'm lost here, I dont know what to think. A person who has been sooooo unfairly treated deserves some type of justice, dont they?

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#2 BanditFlyer

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 01:02 AM

There's plenty of wrong to go around here. Seems to me like the police also have some things to answer for - they were accomplices to drunk driving. Not only that, Drunk driving with children in the car.

So the police officers should face charges for being accomplices.

Jim should face charges for "freaking out" and beating the guy he beat. As to whether or not he is eventually found guilty or innocent by reason of insanity(hey, his brain can't possibly work the same after what the doctors said, right?), that's another story.

Lots of "shoulds" here. The biggest one is the guy who attempted to murder Jim. He should definitely not be free. Seems like quite a dangerous person.

#3 MaraM

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 04:17 PM

Wow, there seems so little, if any, 'justice' involved here at all - in fact, the entire story is a bit frightening.

If enough witnesses are available, perhaps they could get a newspaper interested? Even a short blurb in the paper may be enough to get the District Attorney and Chief of Police to investigate the incident.

Do wonder if the young man can sue his attacker in Civil Court, and at least try to recover some of the medical costs plus an amount for pain/suffering. (He could then use the money to pay the attorney he needs re 'loosing it' - sad sigh).

Easy for me to say these things, I know, but at the very least, action by the witnesses may prevent the same women being beaten (possibly to death) and the horror of the children having to watch it.
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#4 yoopergirl

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:06 PM

Thanks BanditFlyer, that's a good point, I wonder if he can fully be held responsible for his actions after that recent trauma, I hadn't even thought about it. And MaraM thank you as well, I'm going to speak to his father and recommend the civil action suit to pay attorney costs, AWESOME idea! Your both lawyers of course, right?! You should be.

#5 yano

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 03:35 PM

Wonderful... if I was "Jim," I would get a loan pay for lawyer and sue the idiot that tackled him. I would be mad too! Heck, I wouldn't deal with the local police I'd call in the state patrol or someone higher up.

#6 flygirl

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 02:43 AM

Get the woman the whole mess started over to testify for Jim.

#7 Orange Blossom

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 04:58 PM

Easier said than done. She may be 1) too frightened of her abuser 2) in denial of the abuse 3) may (gasp) think that her abuser's behaviour was appropriate 4) may be afraid for her children's well-being (Would the abuser steal or harm the children if she testified against him? Does the abuser have 'friends' that would carry out a vendetta against her or her children even if he is behind bars?)
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It is an unfortunate truth that people with connections will often get verdicts in their favor that flies in the teeth of either justice or mercy.

Also, different states have different laws concerning proof of domestic violence. In some states it is much more difficult for a woman to prove abuse.
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On another but related note: Women can also be abusers, and sometimes they will manipulate situations to make it look as though they are being abused when in fact it is the other way around and the man gets unjustly charged, arrested, and convicted.
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In any event, Jim needs a very good defense lawyer that is willing to stand up to the status quo for what is right.

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#8 yoopergirl

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 11:20 PM

Hey guys, verdicts in, thought ya might like to know. "Jim" has 53 more days to serve in the county slammer. Nothing has been done to his attacker, his family is STILL TRYING to find a lawyer willing to take the case. Who ever said life was fair huh?

#9 ryan_w_quick

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 04:15 PM

OK. Here's what Jim SHOULD have done, although it is too late now.

When he saw the guy at the fair, he should have stalked him until he was alone. Then, he should have hit him in the back so that he wouldn't be identified, or he should've killed him so that he couldn't get in trouble. Then he wouldn't be in jail right now and he would be a lot happier. And justice would have been served.

Edited by ryan_w_quick, 23 October 2006 - 04:16 PM.

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