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next mainstream 8700K Coffeelake to be 6 core, but only 3.7 GHz?


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#1 MDD1963

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 06:31 PM

https://www.cpchardware.com/coffee-lake-approche/

 

Given current gaming benchmark results of 6c/12t processors, it does not look like some new mainstream gaming 'performance behemoth' is soon to be unleashed...at least not at stock the stock 3.7 GHz...; on the positive side, TDP will be back down to 95W or so...


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#2 Drillingmachine

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 02:10 AM

No surprise as Intel don't want it to compete with LGA2066 lineup.

Edited by Drillingmachine, 18 July 2017 - 02:10 AM.


#3 jonuk76

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 06:40 AM

I think the 'stock clock' of 3.7 Ghz is quite impressive for a 95w TDP part.  The 'turbo' implementation will be important I think, particularly on the locked, lower frequency parts.  As a first impression, a 2.8 Ghz 6 core i5 doesn't strike me as very attractive unless it can manage a significant speed boost when fewer cores active.

 

Assuming this leak is true, will be interesting to see what they do with the i3.



#4 Drillingmachine

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 07:20 AM

I think the 'stock clock' of 3.7 Ghz is quite impressive for a 95w TDP part.  The 'turbo' implementation will be important I think, particularly on the locked, lower frequency parts.  As a first impression, a 2.8 Ghz 6 core i5 doesn't strike me as very attractive unless it can manage a significant speed boost when fewer cores active.
 
Assuming this leak is true, will be interesting to see what they do with the i3.


Not very impressive. AMD has 3.6 GHz 8 core for 95W. It's possible that CPU has no turbo.

Those CPU's also need new socket so congratulations to everyone who thought you could put 6-core to existing LGA1151 motherboard. Intel screws you up, always.

#5 jonuk76

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 07:48 AM

Indeed, but I question why a system using a 95w TDP R7 1800X can as a whole can pull more power on high load than a system using a 140w TDP i7-6900K, all other factors being equal - https://www.techspot.com/review/1379-and-ryzen-5-1600x-1500x/page6.html

 

The Intel pattern seems to be a new socket every two generations, although some sources are saying Coffee Lake will use LGA 1151 with a new chipset released at the same time (300 series).  If true, it's likely 100 and 200 series boards can run them with a BIOS update.  I think that is based on some benchmark results (SiSoft Sandra) turning up suggesting pre-release Coffee Lake processors are running on a 200 series chipset...  It's really all speculation though at this point.



#6 Drillingmachine

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 08:49 AM

Looks like 224W for i7-6900K and 191W for i7-1800X for me.

TDP thing on Ryzen's are quite complicated and cannot find right now what AMD said.

Sandra probably didn't recognize 300 series chipset correctly. Based on information currently available Coffee lake will require LGA1151 v2 socket, incompatible with LGA1151 of course.

Best reason current LGA1151 won't support 6-cores is simply that Intel never promised LGA1151 to support more than 4 cores. And so it makes no sense for Intel to make 6-core for LGA1151.

Edited by Drillingmachine, 18 July 2017 - 08:51 AM.


#7 jonuk76

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 08:30 PM

Looks like 224W for i7-6900K and 191W for i7-1800X for me.

TDP thing on Ryzen's are quite complicated and cannot find right now what AMD said.
 

 

Curious.. I know the numbers you quoted are from the Prime 95 test, while in the Cinebench test, results are completely different.  Ryzen power consumption is basically the same on Cinebench and Prime 95.  All of the Intel's have a marked increase in power consumption on Prime 95.

 

mlXn8tb.png

 

 

Best reason current LGA1151 won't support 6-cores is simply that Intel never promised LGA1151 to support more than 4 cores. And so it makes no sense for Intel to make 6-core for LGA1151.

 

Maybe... But then LGA 775 was created for a single core Pentium 4 and ended up 4 years later running Core 2 Quad processors.  But they have also got form for making multiple incompatible versions of the same socket (Socket 2011 for example).



#8 MadmanRB

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Posted 18 July 2017 - 09:54 PM

Yeah but I bet they wont offer the prices that Ryzen offers, even if its a new generation intel really has to reconsider high priced processors and remove k skus and the requirement of having to use specialty motherboards to overclock.

But this is intel its going to be the same ol crap from them


Edited by MadmanRB, 18 July 2017 - 09:56 PM.

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#9 Drillingmachine

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 03:52 AM

Looks like 224W for i7-6900K and 191W for i7-1800X for me.

TDP thing on Ryzen's are quite complicated and cannot find right now what AMD said.

 
Curious.. I know the numbers you quoted are from the Prime 95 test, while in the Cinebench test, results are completely different.  Ryzen power consumption is basically the same on Cinebench and Prime 95.  All of the Intel's have a marked increase in power consumption on Prime 95.
 
mlXn8tb.png


Yeah because Prime95 uses more AVX instructions and TDP values are determined by maximum power consumption. So Prime95 is right here, not Cinebench.
 
 

Best reason current LGA1151 won't support 6-cores is simply that Intel never promised LGA1151 to support more than 4 cores. And so it makes no sense for Intel to make 6-core for LGA1151.

 
Maybe... But then LGA 775 was created for a single core Pentium 4 and ended up 4 years later running Core 2 Quad processors.  But they have also got form for making multiple incompatible versions of the same socket (Socket 2011 for example).


Single core Pentium 4 motherboards did not support even dual core Pentium D's. Pentium D motherboards did not support Core 2 Duos. Some Core 2 duo motherboards did not support Core 2 quads. So while socket remained physically same, there was at least 4 incompatible versions of same socket. To be more precise, VRM and/or FSB requirements changed. So saying that LGA775 ran Pentium 4 and later Core 2 Quad does not make sense since every Pentium 4 era LGA775 motherboard was incompatible with Core 2 CPU's.

It's pretty much sure that 6-core CPU's require special LGA1151 socket. Even if socket is physically same, those 6-core CPU's just won't work.

#10 jonuk76

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 01:25 PM

 

Single core Pentium 4 motherboards did not support even dual core Pentium D's. Pentium D motherboards did not support Core 2 Duos. Some Core 2 duo motherboards did not support Core 2 quads. So while socket remained physically same, there was at least 4 incompatible versions of same socket. To be more precise, VRM and/or FSB requirements changed. So saying that LGA775 ran Pentium 4 and later Core 2 Quad does not make sense since every Pentium 4 era LGA775 motherboard was incompatible with Core 2 CPU's.

It's pretty much sure that 6-core CPU's require special LGA1151 socket. Even if socket is physically same, those 6-core CPU's just won't work.

 

 

Actually several Pentium 4/D era motherboards (945 chipset) could accept some Core 2 processors after a BIOS update, and several early C2D boards could be updated to take later 45 nm Core 2 Quad's.  Really it was dependent on the manufacturer.  Over the 6 years or so that socket was current (2004-2010) manufacturing process shrank from 90 nm to 65 nm to 45 nm, covered two entirely different architectures (Netburst and Core) and FSB's varied from 533 mhz to 1333 mhz.  So it's not entirely unexpected that a 2004 motherboard wouldn't take a 2010 chip...

 

The situation with Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake is rather different. No die shrink, a minor microarchitecture update and two extra cores added.

 

As I said though, it's all speculation at this point. We will see in due course what the answer is.



#11 Drillingmachine

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 10:09 PM

Actually several Pentium 4/D era motherboards (945 chipset) could accept some Core 2 processors after a BIOS update, and several early C2D boards could be updated to take later 45 nm Core 2 Quad's.


Not a single Pentium 4 era motherboard accepted Core 2 because Intel changed specifications just before Core 2 launch. It's not chipset but motherboard VRM that matters, even i915 could support Core 2 if VRM is OK. As VRM is the key, many Pentium 4 motherboards that were supposed to support Core 2 Duo did not do it (many even advertised to have support) and so it's safe to say Pentium 4 motherboards do not support Core 2.

This is what I mean, Pentium 4 motherboard with promised Core 2 support: https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5WD2E_Premium/specifications/

"Support Intel next generation 65nm CPU"

Well, no support for any Core 2.

Those early Core 2 motherboard had so low FSB that they could only support slowest Core 2 quads, at best.

Really it was dependent on the manufacturer.  Over the 6 years or so that socket was current (2004-2010) manufacturing process shrank from 90 nm to 65 nm to 45 nm, covered two entirely different architectures (Netburst and Core) and FSB's varied from 533 mhz to 1333 mhz.  So it's not entirely unexpected that a 2004 motherboard wouldn't take a 2010 chip...


There were at least 4 "versions" of LGA775 socket. Not exactly as socket remained physically same but in practice:

- LGA775 for single core Pentium 4's
- LGA775 for dual core Pentium 4's

At this point compatibility was broken, Pentium 4 motherboards did not support Core 2

- LGA775 for slowest Core 2 duo's and with some extent slowest Core 2 Quads

At this point many boards dropped support for Pentium 4

- LGA775 for faster Core 2 Duos and Quads

So basically there was no point keeping socket same for as new CPU's would still require new motherboard.
 

The situation with Kaby Lake and Coffee Lake is rather different. No die shrink, a minor microarchitecture update and two extra cores added.
 
As I said though, it's all speculation at this point. We will see in due course what the answer is.


Speculation still of course but considering we are talking about Intel, I wouldn't expect much for supporting old motherboards with new CPU :)

#12 Drillingmachine

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Posted 05 August 2017 - 06:30 AM

It's now confirmed that z170/z270 motherboard do NOT support upcoming 6-core CPU's.

No surprise.




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