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Where do I place the bootloader of Linux Mint in UEFI dual boot PC?


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#1 cat1092

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 02:27 PM

The Topic header pretty sums up my question, just finished for the most part of restoring a PC & am running Windows 10 Pro Insider Previews on, all in UEFI & GPT partitioning scheme. 

 

http://speccy.piriform.com/results/XKPKJoJC4mxfsAyACwvRNlv

 

Here's the partition table, root, Swap & /home has already been formatted as such last week, as I wanted all to be aligned from the beginning. As always, I install root & Swap on SSD, /home on HDD, this allows for retention of data should I need to reinstall, or in the unlikely case the SSD goes out. :lol:

 

6KwUd4l.png

 

And a pic of the current system that adds to what's not shown in Speccy, will add a physical pic of the PC in due time, it's an impressive Dimension 2400, if I were employed there, would be due a promo for my hard work & not done yet. :)

 

jPmFoc6.png

 

Now, am I supposed to place the bootloader in the active partition (I presume the first), it's only 100 MiB because Windows 7 Pro was installed in UEFI mode, upgraded to W10, and resigned for the first time in nearly two years back into the Windows Insider Program. I'd like to clean install so that the partition structure will reflect a proper W10 one, however these are shipped as updates, not ISO's, therefore there's not one. Except for an older one from a couple of months back. 

 

If anyone feels like I need to take care of that first (having all proper partitions in place, will be happy to, just say so, I can clean install the latest Preview ISO that I have & then update to the latest, being that I'm in the Fast ring. :)

 

Otherwise, want to install Linux Mint 18.2 MATE, am not sure if still Preview or not, haven't been offered the upgrade yet. At any rate, no worries, it'll update to the stable version w/out the need for reinstall. 

 

So the question is, do I place the bootloader on the active partition or the drive itself? There's conflicting advise on this, and in the UEFI one can swap which OS to boot from, be it 'Windows Boot Manager' or 'Ubuntu', the default for any OS based upon it. That leads me to believe, although am not 100% certain, that one wouldn't want to overwrite the entire drive, and why I need advise from one who knows on how to proceed. If it were MBR, I wouldn't be asking the question, the bootloader (normally) goes on the device, not a partition. 

 

Any and all input will be greatly appreciated. :)

 

Cat


Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


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#2 NickAu

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 04:55 PM

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How To Install Linux Mint 18 Alongside Windows 10 (UEFI)

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#3 paul88ks

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:35 PM

Hi Cat- I'm going to follow along on this thread if you don't mind- I would like to know what you decide to do since I'm new to GPT and UEFI!



#4 MadmanRB

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 09:34 AM

I always use a separate efi partition and boot partition in linux nowadays so that I dont wipe the windows one and windows doesnt try to overwrite the bootloader of linux.

I would use gparted to do this as its a great partitioning tool and is dead easy to use.


Edited by MadmanRB, 05 July 2017 - 09:36 AM.

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#5 Guest_philbo_*

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 05:19 PM

I like Madman’s idea of a separate EFI partition, although I haven’t tried it myself. I’ve always installed the Linux bootloader on the Windows EFI partition.

 

I just recently dual-booted W10 and Mint 18.2 .

The W10 EFI partition is only 100MB, but seems to be plenty of space. The Windows bootloader takes up about 27MB, and GRUB uses only about 7MB. Both are placed in the EFI folder, which now contains 2 Microsoft folders and one labelled Ubuntu.



#6 MadmanRB

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 08:20 PM

make the boot partition at least 500mb so that if you need more boot entries it will have room


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#7 Guest_philbo_*

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Posted 05 July 2017 - 08:48 PM

So the question is, do I place the bootloader on the active partition or the drive itself?

I can’t be sure about this because I always select the EFI partition, but I think if you select the disk itself without specifying a partition, then the Ubiquity installer will look for the first EFI partition it sees and install the bootloader there.

 

I’m not currently able to test if this is still the case, so I’d be inclined to play safe and select a specific EFI partition. Either the Windows one or, as Madman suggested, a new separate FAT32 partition flagged as EFI.



#8 cat1092

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 05:48 AM

Have reinstalled the latest Windows 10 Preview ISO, so now have properly prepared UEFI partitions, next time I decide to install Windows 7 in UEFI/GPT style, will boot to W10 install media, go though the install motions, which will create all needed partitions & then cancel install & then install W7. This way, the system & other partitions will be right & won't have to deal with this again. :)

 

Hi Cat- I'm going to follow along on this thread if you don't mind- I would like to know what you decide to do since I'm new to GPT and UEFI!

 

Paul, no problem, any time you want to follow a Topic of another's, there's a tab to the upper right to 'Follow This Topic', and you'll get notified of replies. :)

 

I'm still kind of new, although my own fault, should had left the XPS 8700 in UEFI mode when purchased in 2013 (almost 4 years back), so shot myself in the foot reverting to MBR. :lol:

 

When available, I now recommend to go with UEFI & GPT partitioning, this way, there's no shortage of partitions, as we've seen across various Topics when members needed an extra partition when all were already Primaries. The only way to overcome that is place Recovery on a USB 2.0 stick of 16GB or larger, create recovery media which presents this option, or simply image the entire drive (all are good to perform). :)

 

Now am in heaven with UEFI, still learning, yet getting there, although have as mentioned above, learned that even if one can install W7 in UEFI mode, the partition scheme won't be like that of a W8.1 or 10 install. This is a lesson learned & won't make the mistake again.

 

Am still working on my upgrade, have had a couple of jobs to popup, so needed to set mine aside. 

 

Thanks to everyone for the advise provided, will update once Linux Mint 18.2 is installed. :)

 

Cat


Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#9 pcpunk

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 08:19 AM

learned that even if one can install W7 in UEFI mode, the partition scheme won't be like that of a W8.1 or 10 install. 

You can install Windows 7 in UEFI with GPT first if you want, so this comment is confusing me cat?  Would you clarify as I'm wanting to do the same thing.


Edited by pcpunk, 08 July 2017 - 08:19 AM.

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#10 cat1092

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 05:56 AM

 

learned that even if one can install W7 in UEFI mode, the partition scheme won't be like that of a W8.1 or 10 install. 

You can install Windows 7 in UEFI with GPT first if you want, so this comment is confusing me cat?  Would you clarify as I'm wanting to do the same thing.

 

 

Yes, first boot into the Windows 8.1 or 10 installer as though your're going to install & create the partitions (to include the one for Windows 7), then exit out. :)

 

Now, boot into the UEFI Windows 7 installer, and select the large 'C' partition already present & the other partitions are proper GPT ones. The one in the snapshot above when I had W7 on the PC is quite different from W8.1 or 10, yet these are needed for full benefit. Thoise 3-4 partitions in front of the Windows 8.1 & 10 install aren't there for the sake of it, W7 is unable on it's own to create the same. Am sure that you've seen a W8.1 install & the first three GPT partitions are different from what I posted above, there's an extra not shown up there, plus the first is larger. Like this (Disk 2). 

 

nb2huzQ.png

 

That's the way a proper Windows UEFI install with GPT partitioning is supposed to look. The W7 installer doesn't fully know how to deal with this, other than make it UEFI by the addition of one folder with one file. The ones who writes the tutorials left out the Recovery partition in front out. Look at that of my W10 install, Disk 2, and compare to the snapshot on top & you'll see, it's not even labeled Recovery. Now I know the next time that I install W7, how to go about it. :)

 

Recap, boot into a W10 or 8.1 ISO in UEFI mode, create the partitions, back out of that install, reboot into the Windows 7 one & then install the OS on the already created large partition, the rest of the system files should then fall into place. :thumbup2:

 

Or if you don't want to take the extra step to make it right, do as I did in Post #1, a mistake on my end. 

 

Am going to clean install once again W10 Insider Preview, since I now have the ISO, reinstall my software & then Linux Mint 18.2. As long as no other work comes in, will do in the next day or so, have appointments to attend to in the morning, so my routine will be out of whack, and need to return a Samsung SmartCam that I figured would work as a webcam (& it will), catch 22 is that a smartphone is required to initialize the camera before doing anything. Nowhere on the package did it mention that a smartphone was required, though it was an optional feature to view remotely. Since I don't have that type of phone, the camera is useless to me, will order a Logitech model that requires a PC only. :)

 

These OEM's should plainly state this on the package, rather than leaving it up to the consumer to discover after opening. Fortunately, I didn't open it, downloaded the updated user guide, and that's where I discovered the issue. Even if a friend/relative done this for me, if a firmware upgrade took place, may once again need someone with a smartphone to repeat the initial step. That's too much trouble & not everyone is on a smartphone wagon. To me, a computer is just that, the same goes for a phone, be it cellular or landline, not a AIO device that I can't afford due to the cost not of the phone, rather the data plan. Forking over $45/monthly for a data plan would deeply eat into my upgrade savings. I just want a nice (1080p) security camera that'll run in motion detection mode when I'm away or having company & Logitech has a few models, as does Microsoft, however I like the Logitech brand & warranty. :)

 

So I'll get LM 18.1 on here & post the results as soon as possible, need to get this project out of the way, have another issue on one my 2nd best PC to check out. :(

 

As soon as the final release of the next W10 comes out, will drop out of the program on this PC, will then use my Optiplex 780, the model with the Core 2 Quad 9650, which doesn't dual boot due to less space within the case for an extra data drive for Insider releases. Maybe install a larger SSD, am using these 120-128GiB SSD's for these 'less important' computers. 

 

Cat


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#11 pcpunk

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 10:56 AM

Thanks!


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#12 JohnC_21

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 11:53 AM

The only difference I found on a Windows 7 EFI partitioned disk is the lack of a RE Tools partition which Windows 8 and 10 require for the Advanced Troubleshooting options.

 

My Windows 7 EFI/GPT system has the ESP partition, the MSR, and finally the OS partition with a factory reset partition at the end.

 

https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh824839.aspx

 

Additionally everything I have read regarding dual booting linux and Windows on a GPT disk states that there should only be one ESP partition. I'm not sure why. It seems having two, one for Windows and one for linux would be the best way to go.

 

cat, when creating the Windows partitions from the install disk, at what point do you cancel out, just after this window?

 

windows-8-clean-install-10-5807121f5f9b5



#13 cat1092

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 08:06 PM

John yes, although create the Windows partition(s) first, some may want to dual boot between W7 & 8.1 or 10. I generally give 120GiB for W7 & 100GiB for W8.1 or 10, unless the only Windows OS on the drive, or intend on dual booting with Linux (as sown in both pics), which wouldn't require as much space as Windows, unless one has a very large /home partition & on the same drive. Root can go as low as 30GiB on a SSD (to leave extra free space needed for the controllers) or 20GiB on a HDD. See the difference between the first & last snapshots of the SSD? The clean W10 Pro Insiders Preview install process done things right, the first time, whereas W7 done a half baked job. This may pose an issue when the Recovery partition in front is needed, not to be confused with the one included with the OS, normally at the right end of the drive (if an OEM install is present). 

 

Am not 100% sure why the first partition is labeled Recovery, my guess is that this may have to do if one wants to Reset or Refresh the Windows 10 or 8.1 install, an option that W7 doesn't have. This option doesn't use any factory recovery partition, rather any created during the install. At any rate, once the partitions are created with the W10 media, to include for the OS, cancel that install, the partitions has been created. 

 

Then use the W7 UEFI media to install in the first large partition (should be the 4th), there'll be no need for it to create added System partitions, as the other three will already be present. :)

 

While I've not done this myself, although would had if I had to do again & intend to, seen it in a YouTube video of how to dual boot W7 & 10. I have another PC (XPS 8700) with the same issue, partitioned like the one in the OP, only it's dual booting both W7 & 10 Pro. Had I seen this video beforehand, would had saved me a lot of upcoming work when I get back to that PC, as these partitions has to be in place before the OS install, cannot be created afterwards, otherwise the OS won't know how to handle these. The W7 installer should be able to handle this fine. as long as the partitions are all there. 

 

I'd like to see (again) a Windows 7 Pro computer that shipped with UEFI & GPT partitioning, didn't pay attention to the partition scheme, was performing a RAM & GPU upgrade. The PC came with Windows 10 Pro install media & shipped with W7 Pro because of downgrade rights, allowing the user to upgrade to W10 when ready to do so, many computers of different brands were shipped this way over the last two years.

 

Will be getting Linux Mint 18.2 on this one & putting to the side for awhile, have other computers to work on, including the XPS 8700, as soon as my low profile CPU cooler comes in, that's when I'll reinstall both OS's clean (as well as Mint 18.2), using the above mentioned method to get started on the right foot. :)

 

Cat


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#14 JohnC_21

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 08:30 PM

Am not 100% sure why the first partition is labeled Recovery, my guess is that this may have to do if one wants to Reset or Refresh the Windows 10 or 8.1 install, an option that W7 doesn't have. This option doesn't use any factory recovery partition, rather any created during the install. At any rate, once the partitions are created with the W10 media, to include for the OS, cancel that install, the partitions has been created. 

 

Windows 8 and Windows 10 create the RE (Recovery) partition for the Advanced Recovery Options. Windows 7, not having this does not install the 300MB RE partition. 

 

From the link I posted which applies to Windows 8 and 10 except for the fact that Windows 10 is supposedly using a 16MB MSR vs 128MB for Windows 7 and 8.

 

Windows RE Tools partition 

This partition must be at least 300 MB.

This partition must allocate space for the Windows RE tools image (winre.wim, typically between 250-300MB, depending on base language and customizations added), plus enough free space so that the partition can be captured by backup utilities:
 

  • If the partition is less than 500 MB, it must have at least 50 MB of free space.
     
  • If the partition is 500 MB or larger, it must have at least 320 MB of free space.
     
  • If the partition is larger than 1 GB, we recommend that it should have at least 1 GB free.
     
  • This partition must use the Type ID: DE94BBA4-06D1-4D40-A16A-BFD50179D6AC.
     
  • The Windows RE tools should be in a separate partition than the Windows partition to support automatic failover and to support booting Windows BitLocker Drive Encryption-encrypted partitions.

IC577711.jpg

 

IC577712.jpg

 

Microsoft® reserved partition (MSR)

Beginning in Windows 10, the size of the MSR is 16 MB.

Add an MSR to each GPT drive to help with partition management. The MSR is a reserved partition that does not receive a partition ID. It cannot store user data.

 

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/configure-uefigpt-based-hard-drive-partitions

 

So I am assuming if one is to dual boot Windows 8 and 10 then the MSR must be 128MB?

 

27887d1437998939t-i-have-only-2-partitio

.


Edited by JohnC_21, 09 July 2017 - 08:55 PM.


#15 paul88ks

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 01:46 AM

Cat- what is the G: Online partition for listed on the Partition tool ? i've never seen that before--






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