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Freezing/hanging


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#1 RuRu92

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Posted 17 June 2017 - 02:30 PM

Hello everyone,

 

I have been using this pc since 2013 without any problems. Now, since a few weeks, I was first getting very sporadic, but suddenly much more frequent freezes/hangups of my PC. When I say freeze/hangup I mean I might be doing a various task: browsing the web, playing a youtube video or normal video trough VLC, playing a game or even just doing a windows update. Then suddenly the sounds gives an annoying reapeting noise, my screen still shows the thing I was doing but my mouse and pc is unresponsive. I have not seen any BSOD's however! I need to hold down the power button to shut it down and turn it back on again
 

I have no idea what could be causing it. I have updated all drivers, did all the tweaks that apparently windows 10 creators update could cause, I tried resetting bios settings, highering the voltage of CPU/RAM, did all kinds of windows checks (chkdsk, sfc scannow), but I am still getting this frequent freezes. Seeing that I have done all software possiblities besides fully restoring / resetting windows, I am thinking that this has to be a hardware issue. Looking around the web this could either be caused by my RAM or PSU. I have, however, done a memtest86+ and a windows memory test and it passed (2 sticks), so the only thing I could think of is that one of the two sticks would be faulty but that its not showing up in the test?

 

When i look at the Windows event log it consistenly shows the following before every cash. Volume C: (\Device\HarddiskVolume3) is working correctly (id 98), filesystemfilter FileCrypt' (10.0, ‎2030‎-‎05‎-‎28T10:10:59.000000000Z) has loaded (id 6) and filesystemfilter  'npsvctrig' (10.0, ‎2097‎-‎07‎-‎25T12:18:05.000000000Z) has loaded (id 6). Then there is a fatal kernel power error (id 41) because of me shutting down the pc in the incorrect manner. 

 

EDIT: I forgot to mention I also checked my SSD's with numerous tools (HD sentinel, crystaldiskinfo, hd tune pro etc.) and I also checked my temperatures. My fans are all still running and working and my temps are around 40/50 degrees celsius at max for my cpu and 60/65 for my GPU. So all pretty decent!

EDIT2: Also had task manager open to monitor my pc when the freeze happened. It did not show anything strange like a massive CPU spike or anything... everything just freezes.. 

 

Have I missed any checks? Could there be any logs I could show for a double check? All the help would be greatly appreciated! 

 

My specs:

Intel 4770k

Kingston 16 gb ram (CL9, 1600mhz)

Nvidia GTX 770

Windows 10 creators update, fully updated 


Edited by RuRu92, 17 June 2017 - 04:23 PM.


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#2 usasma

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 05:11 AM

Start with these free hardware diagnostics:  http://www.carrona.org/hwdiag.html

Please run ALL of the tests (skip those that you've already run recently) and let us know the results.

 

If all the tests pass, then let's try looking at these 2 sets of reports:

Report Set #1)  Please run this report collecting tool (even though you may not be experiencing BSOD's) so that we can provide a complete analysis: (from the pinned topic at the top of the forum)   http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/576314/blue-screen-of-death-bsod-posting-instructions-windows-10-81-8-7-vista/
FYI - I don't often use the Perfmon report, so if it doesn't work please just let me know.

If you have problems with it running it, there's an alternate tool here (direct download link):  https://github.com/blueelvis/BSOD-Inspector/releases/download/1.0.5/BSODInspector-1.0.5.exe

NOTE:
Please zip up the (.ZIP) files - do not use .RAR or other compression utilities. 
.ZIP is the type file that can be uploaded to the forums.

Report Set #2)  Please do the following:
- open Event Viewer (run eventvwr.msc from the "Run" dialog)
- expand the Custom Views category (left click on the > next to the words "Custom Views")
- right click on the "Administrative Events" heading
- select "Save all Events in Custom View as..."
- save the file as Admin.evtx
- zip up the file (right click on it, select "Send to", select "Compressed (zipped) folder")
- upload it with your next post (if it's too big, then upload it to a free file-hosting service and post a link here).

FYI - If we're looking for Event ID 41 errors (unexplained shutdowns), there's more info on that here:  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2028504

While waiting for a reply, please monitor your temps with this free utility: 

SpeedFan v. 4.5.1 and later (free from here:  http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php ) can log temperatures in a CSV file:
You may not need to log temps - if uncertain, please ask.

To make it work (log the temps to a file) you have to do BOTH of the below:

1. Enable logging in general: Configure...Log...check "Enabled" then click on OK to save.

2. Enable logging for specific checks: Configure...Temperatures..left click on each sensor, then click on "Logged" at the bottom of the Window (for our purposes we want them all) then once you've selected "Logged" for all sensors, then click on OK to save.

The log will be located at C:\Program Files (x86)\SpeedFan

Naming: log files are named SFLogYYYYMMDD.csv, where YYYY is the year (four digits), MM is the month (2 digits, zero padded) and DD is the day (2 digits, zero padded). If a file already exists by that name, the file that already exists is renamed according to the following naming scheme: SFLogYYYYMMDD-CCCC.csv, where CCCC is a increasing number. The new file is then created with the standard file name scheme.

Notes: whenever you change the options related with logging, SpeedFan starts a new log file.

NOTE:You may want to turn logging off when we're done - as I don't know it's impact on performance or on the system.



 
My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#3 RuRu92

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 08:18 AM

Thanks Usasma, going to run those. As an update I tried to remove 1 ram stick to see if the problem would maybe go away. It seemded to go well but then it restarted out of nowhere. So actually not a freeze but a sudden restart. Still no BSOD, but the crash behavior did suddenly change from a complete freeze and needing to manually reboot it, to a instant restart without warning. The logs still show the same instances being run right before the crash.

Upon rebooting I got the eternal windows 10 loading screen so I had to restart my pc again to actually get in. So currently running a memtest86+ on this stick now, because I find it strange that the crashing behavior has suddenly changed after using only this 1 stick of ram.

If it does not show any errors I will start to run the steps you gave above :)

#4 RuRu92

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 02:28 PM

Thanks Usasma, going to run those. As an update I tried to remove 1 ram stick to see if the problem would maybe go away. It seemded to go well but then it restarted out of nowhere. So actually not a freeze but a sudden restart. Still no BSOD, but the crash behavior did suddenly change from a complete freeze and needing to manually reboot it, to a instant restart without warning. The logs still show the same instances being run right before the crash.
Upon rebooting I got the eternal windows 10 loading screen so I had to restart my pc again to actually get in. So currently running a memtest86+ on this stick now, because I find it strange that the crashing behavior has suddenly changed after using only this 1 stick of ram.
If it does not show any errors I will start to run the steps you gave above :)


So I just did memtest86+, and after 5 passes (and therefore no errors), it froze aswell. My CPU temp was around 45 degrees Celsius. But somehow it still froze. Could a ram stick be bad but still not give any errors? What could it mean? It is memtest 86+ version 5.01 btw

#5 usasma

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 04:45 AM

There are still many different possibilities, for example - sometimes Prime95 will detect problems with the RAM that MemTest86+ doesn't.

Please finish ALL of the diagnostics and let us know the results.

 

Hardware diagnostics are software tests of hardware devices.  As such, depending on how they are written, they may not test all of the possibilities.

As such, we use them to get us started on finding the problem devices (and to keep replacement part costs down) - but the actual "test" is when you put a new/known good part in and see if it runs without problems.

 

I would also still like to see the reports that I requested earlier.  There may be clues that will help us to figure this out.


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#6 RuRu92

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 10:22 AM

There are still many different possibilities, for example - sometimes Prime95 will detect problems with the RAM that MemTest86+ doesn't.

Please finish ALL of the diagnostics and let us know the results.

 

Hardware diagnostics are software tests of hardware devices.  As such, depending on how they are written, they may not test all of the possibilities.

As such, we use them to get us started on finding the problem devices (and to keep replacement part costs down) - but the actual "test" is when you put a new/known good part in and see if it runs without problems.

 

I would also still like to see the reports that I requested earlier.  There may be clues that will help us to figure this out.

 

 

Sorry it took so long, but I finally managed to "complete" all the different tests.

 

Ram

  • Memtest 86+, version 4.20, 10 passes, (10+ hours)
  • HCI design memtest, crashes PC, no BSOD, will not reach 100% completion. No ram error just a full PC freeze. 

 

HDD/SSD

  • Intel ssd toolbox, wd diagnose tool, cyrstal disk info, hd tune: no errors

 

Malware scan

  • Malwarebytes + windows defender (offline) + eset scan (online), nothing found

 

GPU stress test

  • During Furmark, pc freezes, 80 degrees max, fans at 65%, after 03 minutes and 58 seconds. avg 26 fps. No graphical errors. Again full on PC freeze, no BSOD.

 

When PC rebooted after this test, it froze again when trying to download prime 95, when rebooted again it did a restart during boot up getting the "prior to windows booting is there a problem with windows screen"

 

CPU/ram stress test

  • Prime95 blendtest (even though memtest showed no errors, I decided to go for the blendtest because of the hci memtest failure). Temps were around 52 degrees average, max of 63. Crashed after around 2 hours. Sudden PC restarts, no BSOD:

Prime95 log

[Fri Jul 07 12:23:19 2017]
Self-test 448K passed!
Self-test 448K passed!
Self-test 448K passed!
Self-test 448K passed!
Self-test 448K passed!
Self-test 448K passed!
Self-test 448K passed!
Self-test 448K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 12:28:38 2017]
Self-test 8K passed!
Self-test 8K passed!
Self-test 8K passed!
Self-test 8K passed!
Self-test 8K passed!
Self-test 8K passed!
Self-test 8K passed!
Self-test 8K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 12:37:37 2017]
Self-test 512K passed!
Self-test 512K passed!
Self-test 512K passed!
Self-test 512K passed!
Self-test 512K passed!
Self-test 512K passed!
Self-test 512K passed!
Self-test 512K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 12:42:40 2017]
Self-test 12K passed!
Self-test 12K passed!
Self-test 12K passed!
Self-test 12K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 12:48:12 2017]
Self-test 12K passed!
Self-test 12K passed!
Self-test 576K passed!
Self-test 12K passed!
Self-test 576K passed!
Self-test 12K passed!
Self-test 576K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 12:54:16 2017]
Self-test 16K passed!
Self-test 16K passed!
Self-test 576K passed!
Self-test 576K passed!
Self-test 16K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 13:00:31 2017]
Self-test 576K passed!
Self-test 672K passed!
Self-test 672K passed!
Self-test 576K passed!
Self-test 672K passed!
Self-test 576K passed!
Self-test 16K passed!
Self-test 20K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 13:05:40 2017]
Self-test 16K passed!
Self-test 16K passed!
Self-test 20K passed!
Self-test 20K passed!
Self-test 16K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 13:11:04 2017]
Self-test 16K passed!
Self-test 672K passed!
Self-test 672K passed!
Self-test 672K passed!
Self-test 768K passed!
Self-test 768K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 13:18:01 2017]
Self-test 672K passed!
Self-test 768K passed!
Self-test 672K passed!
Self-test 20K passed!
Self-test 20K passed!
Self-test 24K passed!
Self-test 20K passed!
Self-test 24K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 13:23:50 2017]
Self-test 20K passed!
Self-test 24K passed!
Self-test 20K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 13:29:01 2017]
Self-test 768K passed!
Self-test 768K passed!
Self-test 864K passed!
Self-test 864K passed!
Self-test 768K passed!
Self-test 864K passed!
Self-test 768K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 13:34:08 2017]
Self-test 768K passed!
Self-test 24K passed!
Self-test 24K passed!
Self-test 24K passed!
Self-test 28K passed!
Self-test 28K passed!
Self-test 24K passed!
Self-test 28K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 13:40:16 2017]
Self-test 24K passed!
Self-test 864K passed!
Self-test 864K passed!
Self-test 960K passed!
Self-test 864K passed!
Self-test 960K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 13:47:32 2017]
Self-test 864K passed!
Self-test 960K passed!
Self-test 32K passed!
Self-test 28K passed!
Self-test 32K passed!
Self-test 864K passed!
Self-test 28K passed!
Self-test 28K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 13:53:38 2017]
Self-test 32K passed!
Self-test 28K passed!
Self-test 28K passed!
Self-test 1024K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 13:58:43 2017]
Self-test 960K passed!
Self-test 960K passed!
Self-test 960K passed!
Self-test 1024K passed!
Self-test 1024K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 14:03:45 2017]
Self-test 960K passed!
Self-test 32K passed!
Self-test 36K passed!
Self-test 32K passed!
Self-test 32K passed!
Self-test 36K passed!
Self-test 960K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 14:09:51 2017]
Self-test 32K passed!
Self-test 36K passed!
Self-test 1152K passed!
Self-test 32K passed!
[Fri Jul 07 14:15:29 2017]
Self-test 1152K passed!
Self-test 1024K passed!
Self-test 1024K passed!
Self-test 1024K passed!
Self-test 1152K passed!
Self-test 48K passed!
 
I also added the requested logs 
 
So I guess these tests shows that is a problem that can occur both under GPU stress, CPU/RAM stress, gaming, light browsing. etc. So if there is not one culprit I am thinking maybe PSU? or Ram.. or motherboard? I guess everything could be the problem :P

Attached Files


Edited by RuRu92, 07 July 2017 - 10:33 AM.


#7 usasma

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 12:22 PM

IMO it's either a RAM problem or a video RAM problem.

RAM being the most likely.

 

Can you test the individal RAM sticks with Prime95?
Be sure to use anti-static precautions when swapping out the sticks.

 

Do you have another video card that you can use to test with?


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#8 RuRu92

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 01:13 PM

IMO it's either a RAM problem or a video RAM problem.
RAM being the most likely.
 
Can you test the individal RAM sticks with Prime95?
Be sure to use anti-static precautions when swapping out the sticks.
 
Do you have another video card that you can use to test with?


You think its the ram? All the tests I did, including prime95, were with only 1 ram stick out of two. But it's weird because the windows memory test and both memtest 5.01 and 4.20 gave no errors...

I don't have another video card, I could activate the CPU intel one I guess ?

#9 usasma

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 02:17 PM

Try removing the video card and seeing if you have the problem when using the Intel one.

 

Prime95's Blend test will sometimes detect RAM problems when MemTest86+ doesn't.

The HCI memtest (if I remember correctly) works by shifting things around in RAM while it tests it.

 

There's no certainty here, that's why I'm asking that you try additional things - to narrow it down so you can make a choice.

And, BTW, we still haven't gotten around to ruling out software issues yet - but that comes after the hardware stuff (if needed).


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#10 RuRu92

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 03:23 PM

Try removing the video card and seeing if you have the problem when using the Intel one.

 

Prime95's Blend test will sometimes detect RAM problems when MemTest86+ doesn't.

The HCI memtest (if I remember correctly) works by shifting things around in RAM while it tests it.

 

There's no certainty here, that's why I'm asking that you try additional things - to narrow it down so you can make a choice.

And, BTW, we still haven't gotten around to ruling out software issues yet - but that comes after the hardware stuff (if needed).

 

I remembered I had some old ram from this PC lying around, and thought I would swap that first to be sure... I changed it and was able to run Furmark for 5 minutes without it freezing and was able to stop the test myself.. could it have actually been the ram after all? How can I be sure? Run some more Prime95? 


Edited by RuRu92, 07 July 2017 - 03:24 PM.


#11 usasma

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 06:59 AM

Diagnostics that we use are simply software tests of the hardware's abilities.

So, if the software test doesn't test the part of the hardware that has a problem - it won't say there's anything wrong.

This is sometimes seen when you get the RAM to pass MemTest86+, but it fails Prime95's Blend test.

In short, we use the diagnostics to focus our troubleshooting - but the only sure test is to replace the hardware and see if it fixes the problem.

 

I would suggest running the system for a while on the old RAM to see if the problems continue.

If they don't, then the RAM was most likely the problem.

Most RAM that you can buy these days has a lifetime warranty.  It may be worth your time to look into this if you got brand name RAM.

Good luck!


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#12 RuRu92

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 11:29 AM

Diagnostics that we use are simply software tests of the hardware's abilities.

So, if the software test doesn't test the part of the hardware that has a problem - it won't say there's anything wrong.

This is sometimes seen when you get the RAM to pass MemTest86+, but it fails Prime95's Blend test.

In short, we use the diagnostics to focus our troubleshooting - but the only sure test is to replace the hardware and see if it fixes the problem.

 

I would suggest running the system for a while on the old RAM to see if the problems continue.

If they don't, then the RAM was most likely the problem.

Most RAM that you can buy these days has a lifetime warranty.  It may be worth your time to look into this if you got brand name RAM.

Good luck!

 

So this took an interesting turn. The problems seemed to had gone away with my old ram. I then decided to try the new ram set again, but this time using the one stick that I had not tried seperately before (as I said the previous tests were with the other ram stick out of the two/new set).. the problems still seemed to stay away. After that I added the other ram stick out of the new set in again so using them together again (the one from the failed tests). In other words: returning to the setup that gave me the problems in the first place. However, this time in a different ram slot, and right away the problems came back; worse than ever before. So I took out that ram stick again and now, using only one out of the two of my new set, I just finished a prime blend test for 6 hours, finished HCI memtest for 1000% and completed a furmark test without problems. I guess all that time the problems were with that one ram stick? So out of this 2x8GB set, the one 8GB is faulty while the other 8GB is working fine, and previously the problems stayed even though I used one stick because I was using the faulty 8GB stick. If I would have done all those tests with the ram stick I am using now i would have probably already figured that out.. its weird because I have gotten that new ram set last christmas and I have been using them both without problems until a couple of weeks ago.. 

 

So I am going to see if the problems have indeed gone away now and then see if I can get that bad ram stick replaced. On the one hand I obviously have the right to get them both replaced, but I am not sure I am up for sending both of them back and going trough all the hassle. It was a kingston hyper X ram stack so a top brand with good warranty I think.

 

I will report back in the near future if this was indeed the problem but, usasma, I already want to thank you greatly for the support until now and convincing me that I had to keep trying with the ram (even though the ram tests did not point to it directly)! Do you have a donation option maybe?


Edited by RuRu92, 09 July 2017 - 11:43 AM.


#13 usasma

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 04:37 PM

Contact Kingston and ask what they need to replace that stick under warranty.

http://www.kingston.com/us/support

 

I, personally, don't accept donations.  But thank you for the thought.
If you'd like to contribute, may I suggest that you "pay it forward" in some manner - doing something kind for a complete stranger, for example.


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.




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