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You HATE Win10 and you Want to Downgrade to Win7


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#1 Guest_Aaron_Warrior_*

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 01:43 AM

In another thread the OP was looking at having to buy a new computer for his mom (typical, email, internet browsing and light printing) from a retail outlet like Staples, and on the list of things that he cared about, avoiding Win10 was a priority.

 

And I share that priority, but I know how to avoid it, and your average retail (hate this word) "consumer" does not, and never will.

 

So when confronted with this again, what does the online Tech tell the User about their chances of downgrading from Win10 to (let's say) Win7.  Let's assume for purposes of staying within the rules of the forum that the User has a legal copy of Win7 Retail (or whatever I have to say to make this legal and within the Forum Rules).

 

CAN some, most or all computers running Win10 also run Win7?  Win8?

 

Dropping this in hardware because I think drivers, particularly chipset drivers are going to be the critical question.  Are manufacturers making Win10 only hardware?  Or are they recycling hardware that always used Win7/Win8 drivers.  What's this picture going to look like in 3 years after Win10 has taken over the world, beaming blipverts directly into people's cerebral cortex's, telling them to buy more Febreze and that frozen yogurt is a God-given RIGHT?

 

Has anyone force-downgraded a machine that was never made for Win7/Win8?  Did it squeal like a piggy?

 

Attached File  blipvert.jpg   159.65KB   2 downloads


Edited by hamluis, 16 June 2017 - 07:10 PM.
Moved from Internal Hardware to Win 7 to W10 Discussion - Hamluis.


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#2 wing987

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 08:58 AM

In my experience you can run windows 7 on any machine that is capable of running windows 10. So, in the given scenario where you already have a legal non-oem version of windows 7, it would be able to function as intended provided the OS was the proper one for the bit set.  Meaning, it is the more common 64 bit version and not a 32 bit OS. (keep in mind that this is my experience, and I have little to no experience with windows 7 32 bit and thus I am not commenting on it's abilities)

 

Unlike Windows XP, which is not longer supported, Windows 7 would still get the updates to the chip sets that are being produced and thus would be capable of running on the same platforms as Windows 10, and to my knowledge there is no hardware designed explicitly for Windows 10 that cannot function on 7. However this will not always be true. Once Windows 7 loses support (which will not be for a while due to the high percentage of companies and the federal government refusing to move to 10, and these make up the majority of Microsoft's income....thus alienating those customers would destroy the company) it will follow suit with Windows XP and fade into the background, being less and less compatible over time.

 

But as long as the federal government uses Windows 7 as their primary OS, you should be safe to load it on almost any desktop or laptop hardware.

 

There is one exception to all of this though - some hardware may be physically compatible but the vendor does not produce drivers for Windows 7. This is common with Apple devices, but is possible that a company can just decide not to although I am not aware of anyone that has. Get someone skilled enough and they can create  driver though...


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#3 hamluis

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:21 AM

AFAIK...in many (if not all) cases drivers are an issue only in being a nuisance to find/locate them...because the manufacturer of the system or motherboard may not readily present such at their respective websites, the usual place one can expect to find driver support.

 

From what I've seen here regarding the many members who have elected to go the route mentioned by OP...this nuisance is hardly a show-stopper and is overcome with a little work by OPs and contributing members who assist the OP in finding drivers which will be compatible.

 

Driver issues/questions are handled in both the Windows forums and the Internal Hardware forums, since drivers relate to each working properly.

 

Louis



#4 britechguy

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 09:40 AM

Well, the issue with drivers not existing for older hardware for Windows 10 already exists.   As time goes by and new processors emerge there are bound to be problems with running older versions of Windows on them.  I've seen reports in the Linux forum about there being older hardware that various distros of Linux don't play well with.

 

32-bit support is rapidly drying up, which is hardly surprising.  (And this comes with someone who has an older desktop that's running Win10 Pro 32-bit.  The writing has been on the wall for quite some time now).

 

People should do what suits them, but over the longer term they will be going to Windows 10 if they intend to stay in the Windows ecosystem and have an OS that the maker supports.  If not then there are, and will continue to be, forums here and elsewhere that will allow them to keep holding together older unsupported versions of Windows for an extended period of time.  I just hope that those machines are not being used to interact with cyberspace, at least if there's even the slightest concern for securing one's own data.

 

As to advertising in the Windows 10 desktop, it can be turned off with ease.  The only ads, and it's a stretch to call them that, that I have ever seen under Windows 10 were a couple of pop-ups pushing MS-Edge and, I think, one for the Mail app.  A quick run through the privacy settings when you first install Windows 10, and occasionally as versions upgrade thereafter, allows you to keep things quite tightly "locked down" and you can confirm this via network monitoring.  Also, if someone wants to try subliminal advertising they're wasting their money.  There's tons of research in the psychology literature demonstrating that subliminal messaging does not work.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 

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#5 Guest_Aaron_Warrior_*

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 02:06 PM

From what I've seen here regarding the many members who have elected to go the route mentioned by OP...this nuisance is hardly a show-stopper and is overcome with a little work by OPs and contributing members who assist the OP in finding drivers which will be compatible.

That makes sense when the OP already has the computer. My concern is for when the OP is considering the purchase of an OEM computer with Win10 pre-installed, vs. building their own, and installing whatever O/S they want.  I'm real reluctant to advise someone to drop maybe $450 on an OEM system (because they don't feel comfortable building their own system, or the cost of it is too high compared to the low-end OEM's), based on the idea that they can downgrade later.  Then, after they've spent the money, they find out that they can't.

 

So that's my real dilemma.  If the downgrade to Win7/8 option seems harder the "build your own" option, I might advocate "B" and not "A".  Also as an aside I plotted out an ultra-low budget build on NewEgg yesterday.  Intel build, reasonably high-quality, including case and everything, excluding thermal compound, Operating System, and monitor, Total Cost $275.00 in case anyone is interested in looking at it.  Moved as fast as I could so there may be compatibility issues.  Took me about 2 hours.  I'm looking for a way to argue OP's out of OEM systems.



#6 jwoods301

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 02:46 PM

Windows 10 can be made to look and act more like Windows 7...

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/277448/how-to-make-windows-10-look-and-act-more-like-windows-7/


Edited by jwoods301, 15 June 2017 - 02:47 PM.


#7 GoofProg

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 04:00 PM

When I used to work in a corporation, DELL used to give us downgrade rights because Windows XP was what we used.  Windows 7 and Vista had downgrade rights to Windows XP.  If you downgrade from Windows 10, I do not think Microsoft gives downgrade rights.  I mean a person would have to put in a hacked version of Windows 7 or find a legitimate license maybe in the OEM class.  (they would have one)



#8 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 04:01 PM

I love Windows 10, so if this were my Mom I would just buy a nice little laptop with Windows 10 pre-installed.

 

Since I think most people would agree that Windows 10 is the best OS that Microsoft has ever made, keeping this from your Mother seems like a bad idea.

 

Try Linux Mint 18.1, you might like that.


Edited by Chris Cosgrove, 15 June 2017 - 05:08 PM.
Duplicated post deleted.

594965_zpsp5exvyzm.png


#9 jonuk76

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 05:00 PM

If you have a system with an Intel Kaby Lake or AMD Ryzen processor, all updates on OS's prior to Windows 10 have been blocked by Microsoft.  So effectively, the systems will never be secure.  This is a "business decision" and not for any technical reason.

 

There is a hack to overcome it, https://github.com/zeffy/wufuc - but as I understand it, it needs to be regularly re-applied as the updates can undo the hack as they are installed.

 

Aside from that, there are installation issues with Windows 7 on these platforms, but they are not insurmountable (e.g. by slipstreaming USB 3.0 drivers into the installation media).  


7sbvuf-6.png


#10 jwoods301

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 05:04 PM

What you'll see if you try -

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4012982/the-processor-is-not-supported-together-with-the-windows-version-that-

 

I don't know anyone who has personally done the "hack", but my concern would be potentially de-stabilizing the system.


Edited by jwoods301, 15 June 2017 - 05:06 PM.


#11 britechguy

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 05:15 PM

I also fail to understand the motivation to keep using anything from "soon to be out of support" to completely antiquated Windows operating systems on new equipment.

 

There is no good reason to do this.  Many poor ones abound.  And based on my past experience with both corporate IT departments in the private sector and their counterparts in the public sector these two groups are masters at coming up with endless awful excuses to avoid moving from one version of Windows to the next. They also will expend far more effort than a transition would require doing workaround after patch after "temporary fix" that remains permanent to keep on old versions of Windows.


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     Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.

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#12 Guest_Aaron_Warrior_*

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 05:47 PM

If you have a system with an Intel Kaby Lake or AMD Ryzen processor, all updates on OS's prior to Windows 10 have been blocked by Microsoft.  So effectively, the systems will never be secure.  This is a "business decision" and not for any technical reason.

 

There is a hack to overcome it, https://github.com/zeffy/wufuc - but as I understand it, it needs to be regularly re-applied as the updates can undo the hack as they are installed.

 

Aside from that, there are installation issues with Windows 7 on these platforms, but they are not insurmountable (e.g. by slipstreaming USB 3.0 drivers into the installation media).  

 

This is what I was looking for, right here.  That feelz when you don't know, and you KNOW you don't know, but you DO know Microsoft.  This is exactly what I would have expected from them.



#13 jwoods301

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 05:48 PM

Use "hacks" at your own risk...



#14 britechguy

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 05:54 PM

Why would any reasonable person expect any technology company, not just Microsoft, to officially support software that is at its end of life just because, "I think they should?"

 

Microsoft is no different in any way from any other technology company I know in terms of software and hardware being considered to have a finite service life and, after a date that is declared long before it arrives, being no longer supported.

 

It would be insane for Microsoft to even try to perpetually maintain even just Windows 7, and 8/8.1, let alone the predecessors to those OSes.  The expectation that they should, could, or would is entirely irrational.  It is even more irrational as hardware changes occur where the new flagship OS exploits features not even thought of when some of its predecessors were created.

 

Life marches on.


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     Presenting the willfully ignorant with facts is the very definition of casting pearls before swine.

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#15 wing987

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Posted 16 June 2017 - 10:42 AM

Well, in reference to multiple posters, some people prefer Windows 7 due to privacy concerns. Windows 7 is the last operating system Microsoft created that does not report all of your actions to Microsoft or other third party companies without your direct consent. For some people this is not a concern, for others they feel that the concern is blown out of proportion, and for the last group they are actively avoiding Windows 10 because of this concern.

 

Regardless of what your opinion is on it, Windows 10 DOES gather information and send it to Microsoft or their third party, and it does so with surprising regularity. If you do not believe this you only need to watch and read the firewall and web appliance logs. This may be anonymous, or listed with your MS specific number, or it may literally be everything (MS states it is not collecting any identifying data, but it makes no assertion to the third parties that collect this data for them). But it is still occurring, even when all the privacy settings are set to maximum.  This should not come as a surprise since Apple has been doing this for years. This data simply helps them fix problems, better their products, and makes for another source of revenue by selling the metrics if they chose. The same is true with most free games on your phone, cloud and photo storage (photos especially, this is why Amazon can offer unlimited photo storage, the costs are mitigated by the value), and even standard web browsing. But it is often collected by law enforcement for reasons outside the intended use, with or without a warrant (go to https://www.eff.org/issues/privacy to view some of the concerns taken up by many).

 

So, I can understand why those who are very sensitive about their privacy take steps to ensure they remain protected where they can.  In today's world of fast flowing information, privacy that was known and expected as normal in 1817 or 1917 are completely gone in 2017. So it can never really be obtained like before if you want to use tech of any sort, but at least Windows 7 is one step closer to this goal while allowing the user to use a stable computer system.

 

Anyone's opinions on this can vary from anyone else.  To be honest, for those on the more extreme side even some facts will be ignored since they BELIEVE it is more private. but those people are more apt to figure out the problems and overcome them, in the name of privacy. So the reality is that absolutely nobody can stop someone who is concerned enough from looking for the alternative, even if it is no longer supported. And Windows is easier than Linux since it is already well used.

 

But the OP's concern about hardware compatibility is a valid one, and with Jonuk76's revelation of Windows 7 being locked out it would be important to know.


-- Windows 7 Ultimate on custom built system, Windows 10 on under powered laptop. Sophos UTM 9, Ubuntu Server and Windows Server 2008 R2. HyperV Virtualization --

 

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