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Training my new Puppy (Slacko64 6.3.2)


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#1 Winterland

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Posted 06 May 2017 - 06:52 AM

Greets.

 

Was given an old laptop - best as I can tell, it is about 7 years old with some weak hardware specs - and decided to blow it up and try some Linux on it.

 

Here's what happened:

 

Laptop is a Toshiba Satellite  C655D-S5135.

 

 

Appears to originally had Windows 7 but was caught in the Windows 10 upgrade and did not fair well. When the nice person gave it to me, she said, "it's slow, gets hung up and then won't do anything!"

 

It has an AMD E-240 processor with about 4 GB of RAM.

 

 

Because I've been running Mint 18 for some time now (and loving it!) I tried that first. Well, that didn't work too well. It installed and looked pretty but the machine was slow, slow, slow.

 

Then I went through: Linux Lite, Lubuntu, Mint 18 XFCE (first one I tried above was Cinnamon, LOL) and none of that worked.

 

As previously mentioned, they all installed, looked pretty but ran slow.

 

 

So it was off to test drive Linux Puppy. Which, except for Mike_Walsh, is very confusing.  :lol:

 

 

Decided on Slacko64  6.3.2, burned my ISO and installed.

 

Yes, Mike_Walsh, I did the full install, no USB, no DVD, the full install!

 

 

And what happed? It booted and runs like a champ!

 

Made some changes (turned on the firewall, connected it to my home wifi, changed the desktop background) and then rebooted to make sure all my changes were being saved.

 

They have been Saved and things are humming along.  :bananas:

 

My goal with this machine is to gift it to another person who is not familiar with Linux & not even all that tech savvy but also is not afraid to stumble around and play with a machine.

 

99% of her use with this laptop is to open a browser, check her Face-book, email and that's about it.

 

So my question(s) is:

 

1) How are updates managed in this version of Puppy?

 

2) How often should that process (Updating) be done?

 

3) is there a How-To and/or a check list for tweaking / setting up Slacko64 for the first time?

 

I know when I've installed Mint, there is a on line guide here that has been super helpful & I'm wondering if there is something akin to that for my new Puppy?

 

 

My other question / concern is: what gives with not doing a full install with this Distro? I installed and it is ridiculous fast.

 

So there you go. Any illumination, insights and/or advice is greatly appreciated.

 

Winterland


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#2 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 08:19 AM

Hi, winterland.

 

Glad to hear Pup's working for you! I'll try to answer your questions/concerns as best I can.....although some of the answers may not be quite what you're expecting.

 

Updates. Oh, boy. Mmm...

 

The ways things work in Puppyland is not at all what most folks expect, especially those who've come from the big, mainstream distros.....many of whom model themselves on the Windows method of constant, never-ending updates. A little bit of background explanation is necessary here, I think.....

 

Linux has always been a way of making older hardware work well again.....and especially the smaller, more lightweight distros like Puppy. However, the big, mainstream distros (led, largely, by Ubuntu and its derivatives - like Mint) have begun, recently,  to start dropping support for older hardware and concentrating more on more modern, up-to-date hardware, in very much the same vein as Redmond's offerings. Much of this can in some ways be laid at the feet of Canonical's founder, Mark Shuttleworth, whom, it seems, has begun to fancy himself as the Bill Gates of the Linux world. And I'm by no means the only one to have noticed this.....

 

Puppy has always taken the view that older hardware takes priority.....with a very few exceptions. The Woof-CE team, who took over development from the 'PuppyMaster' (Barry Kauler) when he 'retired' to concentrate on his own projects, seem to have become infected with this same obsession; concentrate on the modern stuff. However, there is one big difference.

 

Because Puppy is so small to download, and so fast to install, most individuals, if they want to run more modern software, simply download & install a newer Puppy.....due to the large number of lightweight, in-built applications, which tend to be up-dated along with each new release. There are methods available for updating the kernel (if that's what you want), and there's any number of new, updated packages constantly being developed and released by various forum members.....but there is no single, centralized point from which updates and patches are issued, as there is with Canonical. Every development member of the Puppy community 'team' holds down a full-time day job to 'keep the wolf from the door', and this stuff gets done during their spare time. Canonical have a full-time, paid staff whose job it is to 'mind the store'; take care of the repositories, do maintenance, update/upgrade as necessary and issue those updates/upgrades.

 

Puppy doesn't have this. The whole Puppy 'experience' is very much more hands-on than the 'big boys', who try to automate everything as much as possible. If you want to upgrade stuff in Puppy, you do it yourself.....manually. By & large, the general view taken is 'If it works.....leave it the hell alone.'

 

Don't be disheartened by this, though. There are plenty of ways to 'streamline' the Puppy experience, and make it as smooth as possible....many of which have been developed by community members themselves.

 

The biggest of these is the safe-guarding of your personal data. What we all tend to do is to keep our personal stuff on a separate partition. For ease of access to this, the ROX-Filer manager has a very powerful, in-built sym-link function, which makes it extremely easy to link your external data partition into ROX's main window, so you can access it from there. This means that you can always update your Pup whenever you want to.....and your personal stuff is always safe. The only thing necessary is to re-create those sym-links (which is literally a 5-second job with ROX).

 

But to answer questions 1 ) and 2 ) simultaneously, no; not in the same way as Mint. Any upgrading tends to be a manual business.

 

As for tweaks; well, there's any number of 'tweaks' that can be performed. There is not, as far as I'm aware, any website like the one linked to which gives a list of 'things to do'; not in that manner, no. The closest I've been able to find is this article, which is getting on for 6 years old (and many of the Puppy methods have changed since then):-

 

http://www.brighthub.com/computing/linux/articles/50992.aspx

 

But, anything you'd like to know, just ask, and I'll see what I can do. The other big resource for this kind of thing would be the Puppy Forums themselves.....which I would definitely recommend registering with:-

 

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/index.php

 

The membership are an amazing bunch of guys & gals; very friendly & helpful, and there's none of the snobbery you so often find with many of the mainstream distros forums, where they often look down their noses at beginners (which I, personally, think is a dreadful attitude to take). Everybody mucks in together, and we all help each other out.....which is as it should be. If they have one fault, it's that of everybody enthusiastically 'diving-in' at once; sometimes newbies can find themselves swamped with advice from all directions!

 

For all that, I love 'em;and would always recommend beginners to seek advice there.

 

Hope that answers some of your concerns.

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 07 May 2017 - 08:33 AM.

Distros:- Multiple 'Puppies'..... and Anti-X 16.1

My Puppy BLOG ~~~  My Puppy PACKAGES

Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

Dell Inspiron 1100; 2.6 GHz 400FSB P4, 1.5 GB RAM, 64GB KingSpec IDE SSD, Intel 'Extreme' graphics, 1 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, M$ HD-3000 'Lifecam'.

 

KXhaWqy.gifFQ8nrJ3.gif

 

 


#3 Just_One_Question

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 08:34 AM

So when it comes to updating your Puppy Linux, you basically re-download & install the whole system on your OS partition when you are doing your spring clean-up of your house and your PC case once per year. Nice!:)

#4 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 09:15 AM

@winterland:-

 

Just for inspiration, this is my Slacko64 6.3.0 desktop as it was a few months back. This is the immediate predecessor to yours. It's now got a few minor 'cosmetic' differences, but it's still pretty much the same...

 

 

PQveqfQ.png

 

Just to give you some idea of what can be achieved.....although many people say my desktops are too 'busy' for their liking..! That's the 'GKrellM' system monitor on the right.....and all the wallpaper/background stuff is of my own manufacture; graphic design is a long-standing hobby of mine. The drive 'icon' set along the bottom is not standard, either; that's also my own doing.

 

The application icons are all my own eclectic selection, too; culled from years of Google searches.

 

The small weather display below GKrellM is part of the Puppy 'pWidgets' desktop display set.

 

@Just_One_Question:-

 

Yep; that's essentially it. You've got it!

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 07 May 2017 - 09:22 AM.

Distros:- Multiple 'Puppies'..... and Anti-X 16.1

My Puppy BLOG ~~~  My Puppy PACKAGES

Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

Dell Inspiron 1100; 2.6 GHz 400FSB P4, 1.5 GB RAM, 64GB KingSpec IDE SSD, Intel 'Extreme' graphics, 1 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, M$ HD-3000 'Lifecam'.

 

KXhaWqy.gifFQ8nrJ3.gif

 

 


#5 pcpunk

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 10:43 AM

Decided on Slacko64  6.3.2, burned my ISO and installed.

 

Yes, Mike_Walsh, I did the full install, no USB, no DVD, the full install!

 

And what happed? It booted and runs like a champ!

 

Winterland

So glad to hear you got something up and runing so well Winterland.  This is an inspiration to older computers, and makes me want to get on with it myself, but don't really have the time.  Kudos to Mike_Walsh for helping all the Puppy Nuts here, wait, I said Nuts affectionately LOL.  I really want to try out Slacko myself.  I've ran many puppy's but always had some little issues I could not fix myself, it's a love or passion imo, and unfortunately I don't have time for it.

 

pcout


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#6 Winterland

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 04:46 PM

@Mike_Walsh - thank you, thank you.

 

That is excactly the sort of info (and background) I was looking for.

 

As I mentioned, this is my first foray into gifting an older machine I received from one person to another & I've always had a fondness and willingness to test-drive Puppy and in so many situations I've run into, Puppy is the perfect solution.

 

This young woman needs only to surf, down load the occasional PDF and perhaps a few documents.

 

 

I've tweaked enough LibreOffice setups to make sure that anything that she receives anything from MS Office will have no issues.

 

I've also setup her LibreOffice to default Save To  MS Office friendly extensions - one of the first thing I learned when fussing with this Mint machine I am loving so much these days.

 

 

I'm going to surf and tweak a few more items but as it stands now, I think you've given me the info I need to keep moving forward on all this.

 

Thanks again for being out there and for taking the time with such a long & informational response.

 

I learn so much from this Bleeping place, it's enough to make a man run the purge command! (No, wait, I already did that, LOL)

 

 

@pcppunk - when you get a chance, give that Puppy another spin, it really, really does bring new life (& speed) to older hardware.

 

Winterland


Photobucket removed my cool flag - idiots!

 

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#7 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 07 May 2017 - 05:54 PM

Hello again, winterland.

 

Ah, that's good. I'm glad I've been able to furnish you with sufficient info to make you realise (as do many, many others in their turn) that Pup is not as awkward as folks seem to think it is.....and is well worth that little extra bit of effort. You just need to be a wee bit more 'pro-active' about things, that's all. It's no so hard, once you get into a regular routine.....and it sounds as though you're going to be this young lady's 'go-to guy' as far as maintenance is concerned..!

 

(It must have something going for it, or else it wouldn't have been so consistently in the Top 20 rankings on Distrowatch for all these years...)

 

I don't pretend to be any kind of 'expert' where Pup's concerned (I'm still learning more & more about Puppy every single day!), but if I can help others out, I'm good with that. I just happen to think that Pup is the 'bees knees' where old hardware's concerned, and if I can assist others with problems, then that's my good deed for the day, as far as I'm concerned.

 

One tip; re-run the package manager's database-update about once a month. This will ensure you're current, as far as the repos are concerned. They don't change that rapidly (they never do).....but it all helps.

 

I don't know what browser you're wanting to use; probably the built-in FireFox, I would guess. If you should consider Chrome, I myself have an on-going thread on the Puppy Forums where I keep the 64-bit version of Chrome up-to-date in the Puppy SFS package format. (I'm a very long-term Chrome user; been using it ever since the original 'beta' was released, back in the autumn of 2008.....so I know a couple of things about it by now!)

 

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107301&sid=1ce0d51b4d8a3734f84a3bf773c87af4

 

Entirely up to you, of course. Hope that all helps.

 

 

Mike. :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 07 May 2017 - 05:57 PM.

Distros:- Multiple 'Puppies'..... and Anti-X 16.1

My Puppy BLOG ~~~  My Puppy PACKAGES

Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

Dell Inspiron 1100; 2.6 GHz 400FSB P4, 1.5 GB RAM, 64GB KingSpec IDE SSD, Intel 'Extreme' graphics, 1 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, M$ HD-3000 'Lifecam'.

 

KXhaWqy.gifFQ8nrJ3.gif

 

 


#8 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 03:54 AM

Hi again, winterland.

 

Forgot to answer your final point from post #1; the business of 'full' vs 'frugal' installs.

 

There's a wee bit of semantics going on here, too. It can get confusing for those not 'in the know'. New users think that 'frugal' refers to a kind of poor man's version of Pup.....so naturally, they go for the 'full' install, thinking they're getting the better deal. Which, they're.....not.

 

Nowt wrong with a traditional, 'full' install. Many people are happy with this, because it's all they've been used to. But it's not as versatile as the 'frugal', and there's certain types of Puppy scenarios where it doesn't play nicely.....and it's not as easy to back-up, either.

 

'Frugal' simply refers to the fact that this type of Puppy install takes up a lot less space. A 'full' install will fill the partition with all its directories and folders. A 'frugal', on the other hand, consists of three or four compressed, read-only files, and a save-file or save-folder. This is where Pup keeps all your personal & system settings.....and since this is a neatly self-contained item (it's essentially a file-system within a file-system), it can be 'backed-up' by a simple copy/paste operation to another location. 

 

You can also run multiple Puppies from a single partition, by placing each Pup's essential 'frugal' files within a different directory. The Grub4DOS bootloader tool will search two layers deep to find Pups. Try doing that with a 'full' install..!

 

If you're happy with the current set-up, that's fine. The only snag with that is that a lot of the Puppy packages won't be available to you; the SFS packages which are so common in Puppyland are specifically designed to work with the 'frugal' set-up, and can be loaded/unloaded on-the-fly. However, it sounds as though the young lady you're doing this for only requires a fairly basic setup anyway; I don't suppose she (or you) will be installing multiple Puppies, and/or loading/unloading large quantities of different software. SFS packages don't have the same entries as do the .pet packages, so the PPM doesn't recognise that they've been installed.....and, because of this, you can't use the PPM to remove them; they would need to be removed manually, folder by folder!

 

If you do want to try any of the SFS packages, they'll need to be be converted to .pet format first. Then they'll work with the Puppy Package Manager as normal. There's several conversion tools available for just this purpose.

 

Hopefully, that's clarified things a bit further for you...

 

 

Mike. :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 08 May 2017 - 03:55 AM.

Distros:- Multiple 'Puppies'..... and Anti-X 16.1

My Puppy BLOG ~~~  My Puppy PACKAGES

Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

Dell Inspiron 1100; 2.6 GHz 400FSB P4, 1.5 GB RAM, 64GB KingSpec IDE SSD, Intel 'Extreme' graphics, 1 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, M$ HD-3000 'Lifecam'.

 

KXhaWqy.gifFQ8nrJ3.gif

 

 


#9 Winterland

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 08:23 AM

Hello again, winterland.

 


One tip; re-run the package manager's database-update about once a month. This will ensure you're current, as far as the repos are concerned. They don't change that rapidly (they never do).....but it all helps.

 

I don't know what browser you're wanting to use; probably the built-in FireFox, I would guess. If you should consider Chrome, I myself have an on-going thread on the Puppy Forums where I keep the 64-bit version of Chrome up-to-date in the Puppy SFS package format.

 

Entirely up to you, of course. Hope that all helps.

 

 

Mike. :wink:

 

Thanks for the additional tips. I will check that database-update when I get home.

 

You were correct in thinking I've been using the built-in Firefox.

 

Not a Chrome user nor am I a fan but will check with the young woman to see if she is and move forward accordingly. Thanks for the link.

 

Also, good info on the Full versus Frugal install - more knowledge to tuck away, esp. in light of the fact that this will probably be the first of many Puppy installs I start to tackle.

 

New Issue:

 

  • The default single-click to launch applications?

 

Been trolling through pages and pages over at the Slacko Forums but can't seem to find a way to change the default behavior to the more familiar double-click to launch applications.

 

I found this old post and did uncheck the single-click navigation box but even after a reboot, I'm still at a single-click to launch apps, which is driving me crazy. Lots of double windows being launched when I'm on that machine.  :guitar:

 

 

Any tricks you might know of to remedy?

 

Thanks again for all the information and time.

 

Winterland


Photobucket removed my cool flag - idiots!

 

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#10 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 09:37 AM

Hi again, winterland.

 

Funny lad! I absolutely love the 'single-click' business; I used to run Windows exactly the same way...

 

Horses for courses, though; it's a case of what you're used to, isn't it? Now then:-

 

That article only gives you part of the story. Not only do you need to uncheck 'Single-click for navigation', you also need to uncheck the box below it.....'Double-click on background resizes', too.

 

That takes care of any ROX-Filer windows. To disable it for the desktop (strictly speaking, it's known as the 'pinboard'; JWM isn't a full-fledged desktop as such), you then select 'Pinboard' from the left-hand panel (still in the ROX 'Options'), and uncheck 'Single-click to open'. Then 'OK' it. That'll take care of the desktop.

 

You should now have normal MyCrudSoft behaviour throughout...

 

Hope that helps. Any more queries, just ask.....either here, or over at 'Puppy Linux Corner'.

 

EDIT:- One other thing I meant to mention. Part of Pup's 'security model' hinges on the fact that most of the included apps are specially selected, lightweight ones which hardly anybody's ever heard of.....so the hackers are highly unlikely to be writing exploits for stuff that's used by perhaps 0.001 percent of computer users world-wide.....

 

It simply isn't worth their time & effort, frankly.

 

I guess you could refer to it as an extension of the 'security through obscurity' model. Personally, although I do run some of the well-known apps, I'm happy with Pup's built-in stuff. I've always been more concerned with functionality than I am with a fancy, swish-looking user GUI..!

 

Too many people have 'written-off' Linux over the years, simply due to the fact that for long enough it looked 'boring', and too plain for their liking. That's why in recent years, far more effort has been expended on making Linux look attractive to potential new users.

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 09 May 2017 - 09:57 AM.

Distros:- Multiple 'Puppies'..... and Anti-X 16.1

My Puppy BLOG ~~~  My Puppy PACKAGES

Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

Dell Inspiron 1100; 2.6 GHz 400FSB P4, 1.5 GB RAM, 64GB KingSpec IDE SSD, Intel 'Extreme' graphics, 1 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, M$ HD-3000 'Lifecam'.

 

KXhaWqy.gifFQ8nrJ3.gif

 

 


#11 Winterland

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 10:43 AM

@Mike_Walsh - again, with the prompt and wonderful information. Thank you!

 

Unchecked the additional boxes you mentioned and *viola* all is well....well, back where I want it.

 

You're right about "why would you want it that way"...but I keep remembering that this is for a young woman who is coming from Windoze and I'm trying to make her 1st foray into the World of Linux as pleasant as possible and show her how things can be as she likes them, knows them and still be safe, good & free.

 

Thanks also for the insights into the "is it safe?" question that might pop up. 

 

>>security through obscurity<<  as long as it works, I'll take it.  :lol:

 

I feel like I'm getting to the end of my questions but...a few more nights and a wee bit more surfing before I officially say, "ok".

 

You should see the desktop - all the pretty shortcuts and that Puppy sitting there in the middle of it all.

 

I love this place.

 

Winterland

 

 


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