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Discussion Thread, Article About The Problems With Linux


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#1 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 10:05 AM

Hey Guys,

I was cruising through some different Linux forums last night when I saw a discussion thread about this recent article that purports to discuss the problems with Linux.  https://itvision.altervista.org/why.linux.is.not.ready.for.the.desktop.current.html

 

It is an interesting article and there is some lively discussion over at the other Linux forum talking about the ideas expressed in the article. I just wanted to see what you guys here think about this article.

 

 

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#2 JohnC_21

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 10:45 AM

This is the same guy who said Windows 10 sucks, which it does not, so I kind of give the article a grain of salt. Personally I have never had a problem with Ubuntu on my dual boot computer that is ages old except for a problem I caused doing something foolish like using Bleachbit.



#3 britechguy

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 11:03 AM

This is the same guy who said Windows 10 sucks, which it does not, so I kind of give the article a grain of salt. Personally I have never had a problem with Ubuntu on my dual boot computer that is ages old except for a problem I caused doing something foolish like using Bleachbit.

 

Well, and I say this without it being directed at anyone specifically, it's really no surprise to see any random someone who likes Linux, let alone loves Linux, trashing Windows (in every version, which is pretty much what that article you linked to does - and some of the complaints are quite legitimate).

 

I find it interesting to see someone who's obviously a Linux fan (the author) taking a realistic look at both why Linux has not conquered the desktop world and still remains highly unlikely to do so in the near or even longer future.  [And I haven't finished that article yet, but what I've read so far seems quite measured.  Even "quite measured" can have specific points with which one disagrees.]


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     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#4 MadmanRB

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 01:10 PM

seems to be the same bullbleep other anti linux articles I have seen, nothing new.


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#5 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 01:53 PM

I agree with Brian, I really don't think that this is an anti-Linux article. I read the entire article and I really feel that is a Linux fan's honest assessment of the OS that he loves. There are problems with Linux, and I really feel that the author does his best to outline them in an honest way so that the Linux community can address these issues in a way that benefits the entire community and moves our beloved desktop OS forward.

 

I for one agree with the idea that there is no real-world need for over 500 different distributions. At most the Linux community could utilize say 80 different distributions and we could use the manpower to better those 80 or so odd distributions to be their best.

 

As a note, I was cruising through the openSuse site when I found the link to that article. I read the openSuse site because I am running openSuse in a VirtualBox with Linux Mint 18.1 as the host OS. Call me what you want, but I am no anti-Linux troll, just a fan that wants to add to the discussion of the OS that we all love.

 

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#6 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 02:17 PM

Hi, Rocky.

 

I still say this article pretty much sums up the Linux 'mind-set':-

 

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

 

...and it doesn't take a genius to put 'two and two' together, and read between the lines. Yes, I love using Linux, but I fully understand why for 95% of Joe Public it's a complete 'non-starter'. And I don't knock Windows (despite having some colourful names for MyCrudSoft....ooops!  :blush:  :lol: ) I did, after all, use nearly every version of it up to and including Win 7. It might be the biggest PITA there is to use effectively, but M$ have gone out of their way to put summat together that any novice can use; in normal operation, pretty much everything is taken care of for you, automatically. And there's a huge eco-system that supports it (rather like our own Ubuntu!)

 

People on both sides of the fence moan about what's on t'other side being over-complicated. They both have their good, and bad points. (Take your own issues over the audio support as an example). Really & truly, it's 'horses for courses'; it honestly boils down to what you get used to. Some folks just seem to have a rather larger comfort-zone than others.....!

 

At the end of the day, any individual stands every bit as much chance of getting used to Linux as he does Windows. From scratch, with no prior knowledge at all, I can't see that one is any more awkward to learn than the other. It just tends to be Windows for most people, since that's what comes pre-installed on most machinery.....so that constitutes their initial exposure (which is as Microsoft intend it should be.)

 

*shrug*

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 02 May 2017 - 05:11 PM.

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#7 britechguy

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 02:18 PM

I agree with Brian, I really don't think that this is an anti-Linux article. I read the entire article and I really feel that is a Linux fan's honest assessment of the OS that he loves. There are problems with Linux, and I really feel that the author does his best to outline them in an honest way so that the Linux community can address these issues in a way that benefits the entire community and moves our beloved desktop OS forward.


Which is my take on it as well. Fanboy articles, regardless of the fanboy (or fangirl), and the OS of their desire, serve no one. They're cheerleading for the dedicated fan and not honest assessments of the pluses and minuses which everything has.
 

I for one agree with the idea that there is no real-world need for over 500 different distributions. At most the Linux community could utilize say 80 different distributions and we could use the manpower to better those 80 or so odd distributions to be their best.


And I'd narrow that number by a factor of 8. One of the things that really turns off the larger world to Linux is the fact that there are just too many distros and:

a: Very few people in the Linux community understand more than a few of them, if that.
b: People outside the Linux community might understand the need for a few, but not what's out there now. There is such a thing as too much choice and people deal with this even less ideally when they don't have any idea on what to base a choice and where many choices are, for all practical intents and purposes, distinctions without difference.

I'll also add that most of the most vociferous defenders of the need for either a given distro over another or for the ongoing existence of hundreds of distros tend to be people who exemplify Sayre's Law, but substituting "information technology" for "the university":  The politics of the university are so intense because the stakes are so low.

 

I've seen more near-assassinations over minutiae that made (and continue to make) virtually no difference between IT professionals than I care to even think about.  This is but one of the reasons I'm no longer in the field at the design and coding level.

 

While trying to design "the Swiss Army Knife" of OSes will generally please no one, what's going on with Linux distros pleases no one but the defenders of each one.

 

It wouldn't hurt to have someone else get involved with the kernel, either.


Edited by britechguy, 02 May 2017 - 02:20 PM.

Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#8 DodoIso

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 05:43 PM

I would compare OS to boats.  Linux and BSD big boats, huge crews, nobody at the helm, no captain with a vision, not new-user friendly an all, very complex (what does this rope do?  Read the doc, sailor!), will draw water in if sails are not properly tied.  It's kept afloat moving along the waves and the wind right in the middle of the ocean.  Micro$oft: Titanic anyone?  Any time a boat sinks, so are its passengers.  :pirate:  :warrior:



#9 MadmanRB

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 06:31 PM

In that comparison a mac would be a luxury yacht on the outside while in the inside it's still the same engine everybody else uses and yet it's arrogant overseers still charge you a trillion dollars to jump on board

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#10 britechguy

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 06:41 PM

In that comparison a mac would be a luxury yacht on the outside while in the inside it's still the same engine everybody else uses and yet it's arrogant overseers still charge you a trillion dollars to jump on board

 

. . . all the while denigrating your former `ignorance` while welcoming you aboard The Stepford.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#11 MadmanRB

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 06:48 PM

as for the "linux being hard for beginners" nonsense Mint disproves that.

Also windows is harder than linux nowadays IMHO


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#12 Gary R

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 12:13 AM

Good article, the author seems to have done a lot of research, and his comments are undeniably valid. Linux is not perfect (nor is any other OS), it has problems which need addressing, and it's good that someone points them out.

 

I think we're all aware that hardware support in Linux is not as good as it could be, and while that is often due to lack of co-operation from the hardware manufacturers, nonetheless it exists.

 

Some years back I had a Toshiba laptop that I wanted to run Linux on, but could never get it to boot from any distro other than Puppy, and if you'd asked me at that time what I thought of Linux, you'd have gotten a different answer from the one I'd give you today, when I have a number of different distros successfully running on different hardware.

 

The truth is, Linux is better now than it was a few years back, but it still has a way to go if it is ever to become a mainstream alternative for business users, or those who just want to pick up a machine that they don't want to have to think about when they use it.



#13 pcpunk

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 09:50 AM

One of my Linux clients had a three issues the other day, I went over and fixed them.  I explained that one of these issues is because the printer manufacturer does not support Linux very well, and that if he wanted I would reinstall Windows 7 to correct this.  He told me he was very happy with his Linux Laptop and would stay with it because he does not get infected.  He is a Senior, not a techie at all, just uses his email, reads the news, a few games etc.   He started out with Ubuntu Mate and now is running Mint Mate 18.  He's very happy with his custom pcpunk setup!


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#14 britechguy

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 10:01 AM

What I find amusing, for lack of a better term, about the claims that Linux does not get infected is that this is far more of a side effect of it having a very small (relatively speaking) market penetration.   Whether malware (of any sort) is being written for giggles or profit one critical feature is that its target be huge to maximize the desired result of the writer(s).  Since it's becoming quite popular behind the scenes in running servers you can be sure that this will have an impact on its appeal as an attack target as well, but still on a much smaller scale than Windows.

 

Were Linux to ever become "the next Windows" there is not one shred of doubt in my mind that it would have every bit as much malware written to attack it, and succeed in doing so, as Windows currently has.  [You could almost substitute OSX for "Linux" in the above and have it be equally true.]

 

The myth of Fortress Linux is just that and the sooner it ceases to be promulgated the better.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1803, Build 17134 

     . . . the presumption of innocence, while essential in the legal realm, does not mean the elimination of common sense outside it.  The willing suspension of disbelief has its limits, or should.

    ~ Ruth Marcus,  November 10, 2017, in Washington Post article, Bannon is right: It’s no coincidence The Post broke the Moore story


 

 

 

              

 


#15 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 03 May 2017 - 10:04 AM

One of my Linux clients had a three issues the other day, I went over and fixed them.  I explained that one of these issues is because the printer manufacturer does not support Linux very well, and that if he wanted I would reinstall Windows 7 to correct this.  He told me he was very happy with his Linux Laptop and would stay with it because he does not get infected.  He is a Senior, not a techie at all, just uses his email, reads the news, a few games etc.   He started out with Ubuntu Mate and now is running Mint Mate 18.  He's very happy with his custom pcpunk setup!

 

Nice one!

 

Good to see someone who's happy with their alternative to the mainstream. Well done, punk!

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


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