Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

The far-left/right


  • Please log in to reply
31 replies to this topic

#1 SuperSapien64

SuperSapien64

  • Members
  • 1,035 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:12:55 PM

Posted 23 April 2017 - 07:34 PM

Our society is so divided today its seems like either you're on the far left or the far-right.
And I know that Society goes through extremes just like a pendulum whether that be social extremes, sexual extremes, religious extremes or finacial extremes. But I'm so tired of this.
Why can't we just balance out and be somewhere in the middle? I mean it doesn't have to be one way or the other, the world's not black and white after all.
I try to keep myself reasonably balanced when it comes to my viewpoints.
I don't like to be in a echo chamber I like being challenged and hearing new and different ideas. I only wish more people were like this but most people seem to be stuck in a ideological rut where they tune out anything that doesn't line up with their viewpoints.
And homo sapiens have so much potential we can do better than this.
So what's your thoughts are you left or right? Do you agree with me?



BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 Al1000

Al1000

  • Global Moderator
  • 8,109 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland
  • Local time:06:55 PM

Posted 24 April 2017 - 07:24 AM

Can you identify "the far left" and their policies?

Here in the UK, we used to have socialism.


Definition of socialism

1
: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism

Examples of socialist policies include the nationalisation of telecommunications, electricity supplies, public transport and heavy industries such as steel manufacturing.

To the left of socialism, would of course be communism, but communism has only ever been on the fringe of our political spectrum here in the UK. It's not something that large numbers of people in the UK have advocated, certainly in my lifetime, and communists are so relatively few in number that their policies are ineffectual. Socialist policies are as far left as I have ever experienced.

So I am interested in what you mean by "the far left." How far left, is "the far left" you are referring to?

#3 Just_One_Question

Just_One_Question

  • Members
  • 1,400 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bulgaria
  • Local time:09:55 PM

Posted 24 April 2017 - 08:21 AM

'SuperSapien64' wrote: "Why can't we just balance out and be somewhere in the middle? I mean it doesn't have to be one way or the other, the world's not black and white after all."
Well, you said it yourself. There are over 7 billion people on the planet and everyone has their own views.
I don't agree with your statement. I think being divided is normal, if not even needed. If you check out divorce statistics, you would see that the highest rates of separation occur in the advanced nations. I don't want to go into further details as this is a pretty big topic. I just think that political/philosophical division is something normal. My personal view is if someone wants to ruin their life, doing something stupid, well, who am I to stop them. And by the way, as an ex-centrist I can tell you, in my view, centrism never works. If you have 3 people and one wants to go on a vacation to Los Angeles and nowhere else, the other wants to visit Australia and nowhere else and the third is open-minded and a centrist. The three go to the United Kingdom as the centrist suggests in order to meet somewhere in the middle. Now, nobody is happy. Congratulations!:lmao:
I don't know, I am just a firm believer in individualism and, as an extension of that, I don't have faith in massive collective schemes. You just can't make everyone agree on a certain issue. Better let everyone decide for themselves and do what they think is right, so long as they don't interfere with anyone else's business.
BTW, with my rightist views, it makes it even more sweeter when a lot of people do gather together eventually, such as for a football game for example, sharing and caring for a common cause.:)

'Al1000' wrote "Here in the UK, we used to have socialism."
Dude, no offence, but the United Kingdom has always been a prime example of a right-wing democratic country. It's kinda like in the USA the Democratic party is left on paper, but in reality is more of a centre. Truth is, there has never been a truly a socialist regime in any of the Western world developed countries. And you guys, even though you have some bad sides, have been on top for centuries now... Go figure.
In my country, Bulgaria, there was socialism for half a century. "It worked wonders."

To anybody who desires socialism: Good luck organising everybody and constantly figuring out what everyone wants, instead of leaving them themselve to decide.

Edited by Just_One_Question, 24 April 2017 - 08:50 AM.


#4 britechguy

britechguy

    Been there, done that, got the T-shirt


  • Moderator
  • 9,787 posts
  • ONLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Staunton, VA
  • Local time:01:55 PM

Posted 24 April 2017 - 12:32 PM

Uh, even though you lived there, I'd have to argue with you that Bulgaria was socialist.   It was every bit as communist as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the German Democratic Republic (East Germany - which was neither democratic nor a republic in the western sense) were.  Just like the Nazis, who were officially the (in English translation) the National Socialist German Workers' Party and were about as far from socialist can be.

 

There are lots of Western European countries, and the UK was among them, where democratic socialism is a powerful political force.  I'd say that describes the majority of continental Europe in the west.


Brian  AKA  Bri the Tech Guy (website in my user profile) - Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, Version 1809, Build 17763 

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.  Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

       ~ Mark Twain

 

 

 

              

 


#5 Al1000

Al1000

  • Global Moderator
  • 8,109 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland
  • Local time:06:55 PM

Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:08 PM

"Dude, no offence, but the United Kingdom has always been a prime example of a right-wing democratic country.

...

In my country, Bulgaria..."


My point was that we had socialism, as per the definition of the word.

I do appreciate that the UK was still far to the right of Bulgaria at the time. :)

#6 Just_One_Question

Just_One_Question

  • Members
  • 1,400 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bulgaria
  • Local time:09:55 PM

Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:45 PM

Britechguy wrote:
Just like the Nazis, who were officially the (in English translation) the National Socialist German Workers' Party and were about as far from socialist can be.

Haha, yeah, you mean like nowadays with the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?:lmao:
Okay, so I was pretty sleepy right before I went to bed when I wrote that comment, so let me rephrase some of my thoughts with a clearer vision now.
I think that the main problem, should we accept that there is one, with the left/right division is not one between the actual supporters in these philosophies. Hell, I can't even tell who believes what when I talk or meet up with different people. Everyone is generally a nice person in the first place. One of the few social situations when you can actually identify who professes what beliefs is when splitting the bill at a restaurant. Every time, every time, when we split the bill evenly among us, I find myself thinking deep down in my mind I only had a salad and 2 glasses of water, goddamnit! with an angry voice of a 80-year-old stingy war veteran.:lmao: Now, does that make me a bad person. Probably, lol.:lmao: However, I keep my mouth shut and consider it an installment in the 'keeping the group peace' fund.
The actual problematic part of this political division, I think, is when someone, full of hatred towards other people and life in general, packages themselves with the good intentions of an ideology, be it left or right.
For example, on the left it is common especially in politics for somebody to propagate policies that take a sizeable chunk of the capital of the rich and redistribute it towards the less fortunate. However, in reality, oftentimes I see in such candidates the near-maniacal lust for empowering themselves via their position, via a bigger governement. And all of a sudden now everyone is a political hostage of such 'ideologists'.
On the right, and this is a pretty current example especially these days, there are always these as***les who envelop themselves in ideas of security and patriotism, when in all seriousness they are using them to inflict their pain onto other people. "Hey, I caught this potentially-dangerous refugee and in order to protect my contry's soverignty I beat him up, humiliated him, took his wallet and treated him like lesser person".
Another prime example would be gay rights of course. In this instance I just think the whole rhetoric makes literally 0 sense. Conservatism (atleast in my mind) = guaranteed freedom. How and in what world would it mean " ...yeah these guys can marry, these don't. these can do that, these not so much"? It just makes no sense. Isn't the whole core idea that rightist would fight to guarantee everyone can do as they please with their lifes. Kinda like Hakuna-Matata - it's such a simple philosophy, lol.:lmao:
But anyways, that's what I make of this whole left vs. right issue.

In terms of social policies and the Western European nations, I actually think that the Nordic countries have an unfair advantage over big-population societies, such as the UK, USA & France. Given their smaller sizes, they are much better places, not unlike a company, to 'tweak' their taxation laws in correlation with the situation at hand. In booming times they can increase tax revenue and in stagnation - lower taxes and free up money, so that the people can buy and build more stuff. In the USA this is virtually impossible. I swear this country gets much less credit for how they run their economy then it ought to. Literally with such huge population it's incredible to sustain so high of a standard of living, as compared to the rest of the World. I'm not kidding, check in Wikipedia the list of countries by population and look at all the ones with over 100 million inhabitants. With all due respect, but they are all sh*tty, apart from Japan & the USA. Keep in mind America is the 3d biggest country in the world by this metric. There simply is no tweaking of the tax policies when you are dealing with population of such magnitute. They do have other tools such as the Fed increasing and decreasing its interest rate when they see fit, but that's beside the point.
My point is, if you are throwing a party and you have 12 people coming at your place, sure, you can pick up some old recipees and make dinner of all sorts for everyone to like. But if you have 741 guests coming, it would be a whole lot better if everyone just brought their own dish and you prepared some goods only for those who couldn't make their own for one reason or the other. BTW, the math checks out; I actually took Norway's population (a beautiful country by the way), scaled it down to 12 people for the purpose of my argument, then took USA's population, which is 61.78 times larger than Norway's, which made the number out to be slightly more than 741 for them.:lmao:

Anyways, this is it. I'm going to go out to the store now and ask the guy at the shop, who I am pretty sure is a leftist, how he's day been so far and buy some products from him. He's a cool guy alright...:)

Edited by Just_One_Question, 24 April 2017 - 05:51 PM.


#7 SuperSapien64

SuperSapien64
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 1,035 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:12:55 PM

Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:44 PM

The whole point of this thread was for people to find common ground and to respect each others viewpoints. And not for everyone to agree on everything or to be in the middle, because of the human condition this would be imposable. As for societal extremes they come and go I just wish we could move beyond this where people can still have there individuality but respect other peoples ideologies. Also myself I tend to lean to the left on certain issues but others more to the right.


Edited by SuperSapien64, 25 April 2017 - 10:45 PM.


#8 Just_One_Question

Just_One_Question

  • Members
  • 1,400 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bulgaria
  • Local time:09:55 PM

Posted 26 April 2017 - 06:30 AM

Yeah, man. As I said, literally 90% of the people are cool with one another. And then there are these 'loud minority' guys that just can't wrap their head around the idea that different people like stuff in a different way, so they go completely nuts. They are usually the conflict starters - the men who can't just say when they see something that they do not like - 'so what?'. Very dangerous group of people when put in a powerful position.
:)

#9 Al1000

Al1000

  • Global Moderator
  • 8,109 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Scotland
  • Local time:06:55 PM

Posted 26 April 2017 - 06:40 AM

SuperSapien64,

I'm still trying to establish what the viewpoint presented in the OP is. Can you give us at least some idea of how far left "the far left" that you are referring to is?

#10 Just_One_Question

Just_One_Question

  • Members
  • 1,400 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bulgaria
  • Local time:09:55 PM

Posted 26 April 2017 - 06:54 AM

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good question AI1000! One would think there is a slight difference between Stalin and Bernie Sanders...:lmao:

#11 SuperSapien64

SuperSapien64
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 1,035 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:12:55 PM

Posted 26 April 2017 - 05:58 PM

What I'm mean by far left is people like SJWs (social justice warriors) or Antifa : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQXcm7pggCY and as much as I like Bernie Sanders I don't agree with his $15 an hour wage I mean wages vary from county to county sure a living wage is a good idea but $15 all across the US thats not realistic.



#12 Just_One_Question

Just_One_Question

  • Members
  • 1,400 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bulgaria
  • Local time:09:55 PM

Posted 26 April 2017 - 06:28 PM

Fun fact:
In the United States of America the state with the lowest minimum wage is Georgia at about ~$5/hour. That means that if you just find a legal job in America, any job, and you don't have any debt, you automatically have a higher standard of living than half the world's population, congratulations.:lmao: Crazy to think about it really! (BTW, these figures are adjusted for cost of living)
I honestly don't know anything about how minimum wage laws and practices work in order to say whethed it's a good idea to increase the federal minimum salary or not. As a conservative I think it may not be a good idea, but as a worker I want as big of a salary as possible, lol.

Another fun (maybe?) fact about net worth/income disparity in the US:
Current president Donald Trump has a conservatively estimated net worth of about $3.4 billion USD. If you add up all prior presidents' net worths together, adjusted for inflation and liberally estimated (even when adjusted for future earnings of the still living ones) and then take away that sum from Donald Trump's net worth... the dude's still left with ~100 million dollars. Damn.:lmao:

Anyways, felt kinda bored and it's somewhat on topic, so I decided to share.:)

Edited by Just_One_Question, 26 April 2017 - 06:31 PM.


#13 Mklangelo

Mklangelo

  • Members
  • 136 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Behind you.
  • Local time:01:55 PM

Posted 30 April 2017 - 01:12 AM

If you express any criticism of Trump, you are labeled a left winger.  If you criticize Obama in any way, you are a right wing nut.

 

It's a rush to judgement.  The American people in general are some of the most judgemental people on earth. 

 

They will judge you immediately on the car you drive, the clothes you wear, the place you live and if you utter anything but the most inane and safe statement.  I can't say much for the thoroughness of this thought process, but I will give it high marks for speed.   

 

It's celebrity worship and mindless, rampant consumerism at the root of all of it. It's a cancer and we have a very sick society.

 

Republics throughout history have crumbled from the inside as factionalism divides them and they succumb to demagoguery. Identity politics.  I'm good.  You're bad. 

 

It's happening.  It usually takes about 300 years.  Tick tock. 

 

And if you try to have the discussion with the vast majority of people in this country, they will defend their sickness.


Edited by Mklangelo, 30 April 2017 - 01:17 AM.

“Let us all be happy and live within our means, even if we have to borrow the money to do it with”

 

-Artemus Ward


#14 Just_One_Question

Just_One_Question

  • Members
  • 1,400 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bulgaria
  • Local time:09:55 PM

Posted 30 April 2017 - 05:21 AM

Jesus Christ, dude, loosen up.:lmao: I don't think things are as bad as you potrayed them. I don't even think they are bad. Just do what you like and even better, try to find like-minded people to do it with.:)

#15 SuperSapien64

SuperSapien64
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 1,035 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:12:55 PM

Posted 30 April 2017 - 07:15 PM

Mklangelo I agree that theres a sickness in the world in general , but most people aren't extreme I'm just sick of the people who are. I wish they would grow up or just shut up and leave the rest of us alone.


Edited by SuperSapien64, 30 April 2017 - 08:18 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users