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Fatdog64: More Bark Than Bite


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#1 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 04:23 PM

Mod edit Al1000: article is here:
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/406036/cheesemakers-linux-corner/?p=4215658


I have to agree with everything in that article. The FatDog 5- and 600 series did work much better, and didn't have the problems that plague the 700 series. Yet jamesbond and kirk won't hear a word said against it.....and with the release of the 700 series, the 5- and 600-series were dropped like a hot coal, the developers more or less insisting everybody must move to the new one. And as stated, each new release introduces bigger & bigger problems, coupled with poorer & poorer performance.
 
The inconsistent behaviour of that persistent save-file is the biggest of those problems; until jamesbond & kirk pull their finger out and fix it, it will never match up to Puppy's popularity.
 
Or Knoppix, come to that.
 
It's a real shame, because it has so much potential. But as someone who packages material for the Pups, it's frustrating not to be able to use that material in FatDog, due to the uniquely weird operation of the gSlapt package manager. Even .txz packages from Slackware themselves won't work with it half the time.....and on the few occasions I've attempted to do so, the conversion tools just point-blank refuse to work. At all.
 
As a one-time 'rescue disk', it's fine. As a daily driver.....no. It's hopeless. Jamesbond & kirk are extremely clever guys.....but they're not doing themselves any favours by releasing a distro laden with major glitches like this.
 
(*shakes head*)
 
 
Mike.


Edited by Al1000, 06 April 2017 - 04:41 PM.

Distros:- Multiple 'Puppies'..... and Anti-X 16.1

My Puppy BLOG ~~~  My Puppy PACKAGES

Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

Dell Inspiron 1100; 2.6 GHz 400FSB P4, 1.5 GB RAM, 64GB KingSpec IDE SSD, Intel 'Extreme' graphics, 1 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, M$ HD-3000 'Lifecam'.

 

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#2 Al1000

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 04:43 PM

I've split this post from the Cheesemaker's Corner topic.

There was a member here not so long ago that had trouble saving settings, as it mentions in the article. I didn't know this problem was specific to the latest version.

#3 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 06:16 AM

Hi, Al.

 

Sorry if I unwittingly clogged-up the Cheesemaker's thread.

 

It's not immediately apparent even on the Puppy Forum (which is where the FatDog support & bug-reporting threads are), that there's anything amiss. FatDog has amassed quite a fan-club over the last few years, some of whom seem to be oblivious to any real issues...

 

*"It's FatDog.....so it must be good."*

 

Also, some of its prime users seem to be the longer-term 'Puppians', who've been using Puppy for ages. These lads know what they're doing when it comes to workarounds for Puppy's 'quirks', yet they don't always share their knowledge on the forum. Perhaps because the whole issue seems to be 'glossed-over'.

 

I've experienced the same save-file issue myself when I was trying FatDog out a few months back. I've a fancy to try out one of the older FatDogs and see what they're like.....yet as mentioned, with each new release the older versions are dropped like a hot coal, and most references to download locations seem to be removed.

 

Totally unlike the Pups, where you can still download ISO's for Pups which were superseded years ago. They're still freely available.

 

Jamesbond and Kirk are, without a doubt, two of the cleverest coders to come out of Puppy for a long time.....but they do like to 'over-complicate' for the sake of it. Which doesn't really jibe with the whole 'Puppy' ethos.

 

The whole issue leaves me at a loss as to what to think.....

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 07 April 2017 - 06:20 AM.

Distros:- Multiple 'Puppies'..... and Anti-X 16.1

My Puppy BLOG ~~~  My Puppy PACKAGES

Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

Dell Inspiron 1100; 2.6 GHz 400FSB P4, 1.5 GB RAM, 64GB KingSpec IDE SSD, Intel 'Extreme' graphics, 1 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, M$ HD-3000 'Lifecam'.

 

KXhaWqy.gifFQ8nrJ3.gif

 

 


#4 JohnnyBeeGood

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 02:01 PM

Hi Mike.

 

Wish I'd seen your post before trying out FatDog 710, yesterday Quite frustrating for a newbie like me with little to none coding skills.

All i can do is move along to what works mostly out of the box. FD looks interesting and hope that save file issue is corrected or patched.

I'd like to try it again. So I'll save the disk I burned and wait and see if there is an update in the future.

 

Really pleased with Tahr Puppy. I've read Puppy's not really for Linux beginners, but with just a tiny bit of effort, it does what I need.


Edited by JohnnyBeeGood, 07 April 2017 - 02:04 PM.


#5 JohnC_21

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 04:14 PM

I usually recommend fatdog for recovering data on a Secure Boot computer as fatdog can boot uefi with Secureboot enabled on a Windows 8 or 10 computer.

 

The link here lists all versions since 5

 

http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/iso/



#6 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 05:59 PM

Thanks, John! You've uncovered them quicker than I could have done...

 

I've been trawling the Puppy Forums. The search function is, to put it bluntly, useless for finding anything. On top of that, one of the guys from the French-speakers sub-forum (goes by the name of Pelo) specialises in digging up really ancient threads and bringing them back up to the top of the lists again.....so very little is in any kind of chronological order. The whole thing's a bit of a nightmare.....even though we're all used to it by now!

 

13 years-worth of threads makes for quite a mish-mash when it's all jumbled up.....  :rolleyes:  :lol:

 

@JohnnyBeeGood:- Huh! Don't ever make the mistake of thinking I know what I'm doing... (I only wish I did! :P ) I might be okay with messing around with these things, but FatDog's in a league of its own when it comes to being 'alien'. It makes Puppy look friendly..!  :lol:

 

Mind you, it's still miles better than summat like Gentoo, for instance.....

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 08 April 2017 - 01:10 PM.

Distros:- Multiple 'Puppies'..... and Anti-X 16.1

My Puppy BLOG ~~~  My Puppy PACKAGES

Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

Dell Inspiron 1100; 2.6 GHz 400FSB P4, 1.5 GB RAM, 64GB KingSpec IDE SSD, Intel 'Extreme' graphics, 1 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, M$ HD-3000 'Lifecam'.

 

KXhaWqy.gifFQ8nrJ3.gif

 

 


#7 cat1092

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 05:10 AM

I have to agree with Mike, the 5xx FatDog64 series ran great, mostly used to diagnose computers, not to use as to access the Web, although I allowed those who computers I was repairing to use FatDog64 to check their email or whatever before repairs, usually a new HDD or SSD upgrade. :)

 

While the 7xx series can diagnose computers easy enough (if it boots there's a 95+% chance the HDD is shot), it's otherwise complicated to run as a bootable OS. :(

 

And unfortunately, the 5-6xx series has an older browser that some sites may not allow access with, due to the much older Firefox browser included. While I'm sure there's a way to perform a frugal install, that's beyond my expertise, getting users computers up & running again is what I aim for when running FatDog64. :)

 

Cat


Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 


#8 Al1000

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 07:03 AM

Hi, Al.



Sorry if I unwittingly clogged-up the Cheesemaker's thread.


No worries Mike. I thought your post might generate responses, so put it in its own topic so we can have a discussion. :)

As I recall, I gave up with FatDog64 after finding out that the UEFI USB I created wouldn't boot in my older desktop pc, and it wouldn't boot in my new laptop if I had virtualisation for the CPU enabled, either. So in other words, the only computer I own that it would boot is my new laptop, and only if I had virtualisation for the CPU disabled. It's certainly not as versatile as Puppy in this regard.

#9 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 11:13 AM

Hi, Al. 

 

Nah, that's fair comment.

 

I've got to admit, despite FD having been around for a few years now, it's only recently I've really had anything to do with it. As both Cat & JohnC_21 have said, for use as a LiveCD for troubleshooting, you can't fault it.

 

Don't get me wrong; jamesbond & kirk are two brilliantly clever guys (credit where credit is due), but their 'vision' of FD's direction is certainly different to that of Barry, and the current Woof-CE team. Despite being based on Slackware, it doesn't really follow the same principles as Micko's 'Slacko' series. At least with those, you do have access to the whole of what comprises the Slackware repositories. With FD, you only seem to have access to a carefully 'cherry-picked' selection of software that the developers perhaps like to use themselves.... I just don't know; I really wouldn't like to say.

 

I don't, however, think I shall persevere with it much longer. That's just my personal view-point. It requires too much in the way of 'faffing-around' to achieve anything.....and that's saying something, bearing in mind that Puppy itself can sometimes be a bit of a 'bear' in this respect..!

 

(Mind you, we mustn't knock it too much. The whole of Puppyland has jamesbond & kirk to thank for the purchase of the $99 UEFI 'shim' license-key from M$.....which they've graciously shared with the Woof-CE team for use on the new 64-bit Pups that are now being developed. Again, credit where credit is due...

 

The whole thing is a very strange contradiction in terms. It's a brilliant concept, which has, for want of a better expression, been 'over-executed; like they've tried to come up with solutions for problems which don't, as yet, exist.)

 

Strange.

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 08 April 2017 - 01:19 PM.

Distros:- Multiple 'Puppies'..... and Anti-X 16.1

My Puppy BLOG ~~~  My Puppy PACKAGES

Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

Dell Inspiron 1100; 2.6 GHz 400FSB P4, 1.5 GB RAM, 64GB KingSpec IDE SSD, Intel 'Extreme' graphics, 1 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, M$ HD-3000 'Lifecam'.

 

KXhaWqy.gifFQ8nrJ3.gif

 

 


#10 JohnC_21

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 11:20 AM

Speaking of fatdog bugs, I can boot an earlier version of fatdog and it detects my Atheros chipset without a problem. The latest version, 7.1, could not pick it up. After googling I came across the rfkill  list command and found out the chipset was not hardware blocked but was software blocked. I had to use the rfkill unblock command before fatdog detected the chipset. Weird.






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