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Windows 10 freezes - No BSOD


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#1 seemunkee

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Posted 06 April 2017 - 04:37 PM

Hi All,

Hoping I can get some help on this issue.  It's been frustrating the hell out of me for a couple of weeks.  

Ever since installing a new LG DVD and blowing the dust out of the case I have been getting freezes.  Screen freezes, no mouse, no keyboard, no noises/change of fan speed.  After reboot there is an event ID of 6008 but there are a few additional standard informational events logged after the time indicated in the 6008 event info and before the time the machine locks up.

 

Windows 10

Asus p7p775-E Motherboard

Intel i7 processor

4 GB Ram

500 GB SSD (previously had 2 mirrored 500GB HDs)

Speccy link: http://speccy.piriform.com/results/GTNSaJcAUYNgObgQ3ZAUl1x

 

Since installing the DVD I have tried:

Turned off power save options in MS

Replaced PSU

Updated BIOS – there is one more rev available but the notes for it say it was for a hardware RAID fix

Broken the mirror(MS Software based) and remirrored with one SSD and one HD

Disconnected the DVD drive

Ran Memtest – both RAM sticks and later each stick through 3 passes, no errors

Ran Speedfan – temps in range

Replaced the mirrored drives with single SSD with a new install of Windows

Ran windows on single stick of RAM and then switching to the other stick

Updated NVidia driver

 

The freezing started taking a day or more to occur, now it can sometimes take ~15 minutes

Amazon just delivered some Arctic Silver and was going to try replacing it in case my dust clearing somehow disturbed the contact to the heat sink. I'll wait for advice before doing this.

Thanks look forward to your advice.

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#2 usasma

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 06:15 AM

If problems remain after a clean install of Windows (especially on another drive), then a hardware/compatibility problem is most likely.

Start with these free hardware diagnostics:  http://www.carrona.org/hwdiag.html

It's OK to skip the MemTest, but please run ALL of the other tests.

Let us know the results and we'll move on from there.

 

Your UEFI/BIOS (version 1504) dates from 2010.  Please check at the manufacturer's website to see if there are any UEFI/BIOS updates available for your system.  If you are able to install the update through Windows (without booting from an external drive), then go ahead and update it.  WARNING - if the computer might shut down during this procedure, please don't do it, as this may physically damage the computer and prevent it from booting.
FYI - W8 and W10 communicate more with the UEFI/BIOS than previous versions of Windows, so it's important to ensure that the UEFI/BIOS is kept up to date (and that outdated UEFI/BIOS' may be the cause of some compatibility issues).
I am very concerned about possible compatibility issues with this system because of the age of the BIOS.
Unfortunately, the only sure way to test for this is to install the original OS and see if the problem returns with it.

 

Only 7 Windows Update hotfixes installed.  Most build 14393 (1607) systems have more than this.  Please visit Windows Update and get ALL available Windows Updates.
The actual number is not important.  Rather it's important that you checked manually, installed any available updates, and didn't experience any errors when checking or updating.

Beyond that, I don't see much in the reports.  I'd suggest letting the system freeze a couple of times, then recover and generate the following report for us to have a look at:

 

Please do the following:
- open Event Viewer (run eventvwr.msc from the "Run" dialog)
- expand the Custom Views category (left click on the > next to the words "Custom Views")
- right click on the "Administrative Events" heading
- select "Save all Events in Custom View as..."
- save the file as Admin.evtx
- zip up the file (right click on it, select "Send to", select "Compressed (zipped) folder")
- upload it with your next post (if it's too big, then upload it to a free file-hosting service and post a link here).

FYI - If we're looking for Event ID 41 errors (unexplained shutdowns), there's more info on that here:  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2028504

While waiting for a reply, please monitor your temps with this free utility: 

SpeedFan v. 4.5.1 and later (free from here:  http://www.almico.com/sfdownload.php ) can log temperatures in a CSV file:
You may not need to log temps.  If uncertain, please ask.

To make it work (log the temps to a file) you have to do BOTH of the below:

1. Enable logging in general: Configure...Log...check "Enabled" then click on OK to save.

2. Enable logging for specific checks: Configure...Temperatures..left click on each sensor, then click on "Logged" at the bottom of the Window (for our purposes we want them all) then once you've selected "Logged" for all sensors, then click on OK to save.

The log will be located at C:\Program Files (x86)\SpeedFan

Naming: log files are named SFLogYYYYMMDD.csv, where YYYY is the year (four digits), MM is the month (2 digits, zero padded) and DD is the day (2 digits, zero padded). If a file already exists by that name, the file that already exists is renamed according to the following naming scheme: SFLogYYYYMMDD-CCCC.csv, where CCCC is a increasing number. The new file is then created with the standard file name scheme.

Notes: whenever you change the options related with logging, SpeedFan starts a new log file.

NOTE:You may want to turn logging off when we're done - as I don't know it's impact on performance or on the system.


 

My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#3 seemunkee

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 10:49 AM

Hi Usamsa
Thanks for the response. Wanted to let you know that I'm working on this and will post as I get more results.
 
I have updated the BIOS to the latest version V1601
Ran Windows update and there was one cumulative update to install KB4015438
I ran the WD SMART diagnostics both long and short in Windows and no errors returned.  I don't see the Diag504fCD.iso is no longer on the WD site, or at least I couldn't find a link to it. 
I ran the Seagate diagnostics from a bootable CD and the short test ran fine, the long failed.  See attached images I took with my phone.

I also ran the Hitachi diag bootable tool and both short and long tests didn't detect any errors

Also attached are two speedfan files since I configured the logging.

 

Not sure if the Seagate failure is a real indication since the Hitachi and WD tools didn't see any issues, maybe a compatability issue.  Plus the freezing was happening before I installed the SSD drive.

 

I have my doubts about a virus, since this is a fresh install of the OS on a new drive, but will give one of the scanning tools a go.  Hopefully the system will stay up long enough to complete.

 

 

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#4 usasma

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 11:54 AM

SMART reports aren't diagnostc - they are predictive.  They can say the drive is dying even when it's fine - and they can say the drive is fine even when it's dying.

 

Failing the long Seatools test says that the drive is dead/dying.  The short/quick test only spot checks the drive.

 

Try this bootable copy of the Western Digital Data Lifeguard diagnostics to verify the Seatools failure:  http://support.wdc.com/downloads.aspx?p=2

 

AFAIK, the Hitachi tool is not current and not reliable on SATA drives.
At work I only use it on IDE drives (the old 80 pin drives).

I can't recall what my web page says about it - but I know that I do need to update it.

 

FYI - you can try letting the Seatools tool fix the bad sectors.

Be aware that this will wipe whatever is currently on those sectors - so you may lose data, or you may lose critical OS files (or, you may not lose anything - if it's empty sectors that are bad).

The problem with this is that you can then use the hard drive normally - but you don't know what caused the sectors to go bad.

Over the years we have found that the "repaired" sectors will often give problems shortly after the repair (either the sectors will go bad again, or the hard drive will die)

So it's our policy at work to replace any hard drive that has bad sectors - simply because hard drives are relatievely cheap and most users don't want to have to go through the re-installation of Windows and their programs again when and if that does happen.


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#5 seemunkee

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 01:19 PM

The WD tool says it is not compatible with SSD drives and to use the Solid State Dashboard instead.  Looking at the documentation it doesn't look like there is a bootable version except for firmware updates or full erase.

 

If there are bad sectors on the SSD I would not be happy since it is a brand new drive, but I know such things do happen.  It would also be odd that it would be the cause of freezing events that were happening on the older set up with mirrored drives. I'll give the repair a try and see what comes of it.

 

Eset did find a couple of suspicious files and cleaned them.  I'll rerun again.

 

BTW here are the admin events.  The 41 events are from having to power off after the system gets frozen.

 

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#6 seemunkee

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Posted 07 April 2017 - 08:45 PM

I won't be able to work on this again until Sun.  I'll get back to you then.



#7 usasma

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Posted 08 April 2017 - 06:17 AM

Sorry, I didn't realize that this was an SSD.  And, I wouldn't trust the Seagate test as it wasn't designed for SSD's

I wouldn't waste time trying the Seagate Seatools repair either.

Unfortunately, there aren't any sure-fire software tests for SSD's

The only sure test is to replace the drive with another drive and see if the problems recur.  But there's other stuff to try if you don't want to do that right now.

 

If you do try another drive (either an SSD or a regular HDD), you can install Windows without activating it.

That'll give you 30 days to test before you must activate the OS.

 

There's one event in the log file that says the system failed to create a crash dump.

So, this means that there was most likely a crash that wasn't recognized by the system (most likely hardware or compatibility).

Try running Driver Verifier according to these instructions:  http://www.carrona.org/verifier.html

 

There are several errors related to winutils

This is likely a library of functions related to the Hadoop program

I'm uncertain what it belongs to, but here's the Google search I did for it:  https://www.google.com/search?q=winutils&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

 

The errors in the Admin event log seem to point to the drive or the controller for the drive (on the motherboard).

This is the error:  IOCTL_SCSI_PASS_THROUGH_DIRECT failed. Last error - 1

The errors happen before the Event ID 41 shutdowns - but happen long enough before that I have to wonder that they may not be related.
Regardless, if you can figure out what this thing is, please uninstall it.in order to stop the errors.

Also, update your BIOS, your chipset drivers and your drive controller drivers

 

I'm unable to find you motherboard (p7p775-E) on the Asus website, but SPECCY says it's P7P55D-E

This is the link that I think is for your motherboard:  https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/P7P55DE/HelpDesk_Download/
if this is the proper link, then it appears that the motherboard isn't certified for Windows 10.

 

Still, the BIOS should be updated to v1601

The chipset driver and the storage controller driver can most likely be updated by using the automatic tool at https://downloadcenter.intel.com/

Ensure that the drive is connected to the Intel SATA ports (number 11 on page 2-2 here:  file:///C:/Users/john/AppData/Local/Temp/Temp1_E5138_P7P55D-E_manual.zip/e5138_P7P55D-E.pdf )

If you use the JMIcron or Marvel SATA connectors, then you'll also have to update those controllers to the latest, W10 compatible version (and I don't have links for them).


My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.

#8 seemunkee

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 04:43 PM

I know this MOBO isn't listed for Win 10 but it was running it for over a year without issues.

updated the BIOs

I tried to update the chipset, but it kept failing

When I turned on the Verifier I couldn't even but normally, had to boot to Safemode and turn it off.  Issue appeared to be nvhda64v.sys.  I tried removing the audio and video devices and let them reinstall on reboot, but the system still froze.

I even tried removing the video card and just remoting into it from another device, still froze.  

 

This has been eating up way too much time for what is an older system so I broke down about bought a new machine.  I do all my finances on this and need to get taxes done.  I had a backup of all my files and restoring them to my new machine and will be up and running tonight.

Thanks for your help.  You can close this discussion.



#9 usasma

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 07:10 AM

Compatibility is a rough topic.  An incompatible system can operate without problems for  quite a while.  Then, when an update occurs that "activates" the incompatibility on that system, all heck will break loose.

This is not only a Windows issue - but also can be an issue with all the other stuff installed on a system.

 

To fix compatibility problems, we try updating everything that we can - then we hope that that has fixed the incompatibility.

But there's no way for us (as users) to tell if this is a true fix or not.  And, it may only be a temporary fix - that further updates may break again :(

 

The only sure way (IME) is to install the original OS and see if that stops the problem.  If it does, then it's a compatibility issue.  If it doesn't, then it's a hardware issue (this presumes that we've already ruled out the possibility of software problems and have fully updated the system with both Windows and 3rd party updates).

Unfortunately, this is a difficult and time consuming process - so not many people like to do it.

There is another topic ont the forums here (that I've just responded to) where I supposed there was a compatibilty problem - yet it turned out to be a bad stick of RAM that wasn't found with the hardware diagnostics.

Reinstalling the old OS there would've show that the problem still remained - but we got lucky and the owner figured it out by swapping out RAM sticks.

 

Just FYI - with each new version of Windows that comes out, I wait 6 months for the market to settle down, then I buy a new system.

It's so much easier than trying to coax an old, outdated system to work properly.  I then either use the older system as a test machine - or I donate it to someone who needs a computer.

 

Good luck with the new system!


Edited by usasma, 11 April 2017 - 07:11 AM.

My browser caused a flood of traffic, sio my IP address was banned. Hope to fix it soon. Will get back to posting as soon as Im able.

- John  (my website: http://www.carrona.org/ )**If you need a more detailed explanation, please ask for it. I have the Knack. **  If I haven't replied in 48 hours, please send me a message. My eye problems have recently increased and I'm having difficult reading posts. (23 Nov 2017)FYI - I am completely blind in the right eye and ~30% blind in the left eye.<p>If the eye problems get worse suddenly, I may not be able to respond.If that's the case and help is needed, please PM a staff member for assistance.




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