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Wireless routers


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#16 Wand3r3r

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:25 PM

Might want to review beamforming.  Its not what you appear to think it is.

https://www.howtogeek.com/220774/htg-explains-what-is-beamforming-on-a-wireless-router/



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#17 toofarnorth

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:47 AM

Hello

 

Just thought I'd chime in with some advice.

On 2,4GHz networks please don't use anything but channel 1, 6 or 11
Do not use 40MHz channel width unless you live in a place where there are no neighbors.

 

The reason for this is:
Wifi is a half duplex technology. This means that it can only transmit in one direction at a time.
This means that when someone is transmitting you have to be silent untill the other party is done

There are only 3 channels that can operate without interfering with eachother. Those are 1, 6 and 11

Say you are in a crowded area and your neighbors left and right use channel 1 and 6
They can communicate at the same time without problems

Now you connect a wifi on channel 3 in your home

What happens now is that you are sending radio energy that will be detected by both neighbors. This will trigger the oh, somebody is already talking I have to wait function

Everytime your wifi speaks both your neighbors will have to wait until you are done talking
Likewise you will have to wait every time they speak

Had you chosen channel 11 all three of you could speak at the same time


Also, if you use 40MHz channel width you will interfere with all 3 possible interference free channels, no matter what channel you select.
This means that your lust for faster transferspeeds will result in poor wifi for everybody around you

So.. 20MHz channel width and only channel 1, 6 or 11
 

 

If you want more transferspeeds, go with 5GHz equipment.
But dont be a bandwidth hog there too. 40MHz channel width AC should give you plenty of transfer speed and leave room for neighbors to have some too :)

 

tfn



#18 smax013

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 02:10 PM

Therefore, a USB wireless adapter might benefit from a lower DBI rating if it is located, for example, on a different floor of a home, right? 
 
USB wireless adapters with external antenna usually pivot. What if I point a USB wireless adapter with a 5 DBI antenna downward (the router is located below) and towards the router? Would this make up for a 5 DBI antenna's reduced vertical coverage?


I believe (but could be wrong) that your typical external omnidirectional antenna is meant to be oriented vertically (like in the picture in the link you provided shows the vertical omnidirectional antenna to the right of the parabolic directional antenna). So, when you have a higher gain external omnidirectional antenna and the 3D signal "map" becomes more of a squished sphere or donut rather than a sphere, the wide parts of that 3D map would correspond to the directions that are perpendicular to the axis of the "linear" shape of the typical external antenna. So, if you point the antenna downward (as I am interpreting downward), you are orienting the antenna so that the "squished" direction of the 3D map is to your disadvantage. You would theoretically want to orient an external antenna horizontally rather than vertically to get the best range to something above or below the router.

And if you have a router with multiple external antenna, this is why it is typically recommended to orient the antennas at right angles (in 3D if you have three or more antennas) to each other.

#19 Dark Magician Girl

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 04:17 PM

Might want to review beamforming.  Its not what you appear to think it is.

https://www.howtogeek.com/220774/htg-explains-what-is-beamforming-on-a-wireless-router/

 

I read the link, and beamforming appears to be exactly what I think it is. It is a technology that allows devices to communicate their relative positions to the router; the router then uses this information to concentrate the wireless signal in the general direction of those devices. Supposedly, this results in better connectivity. Realistically, I'm not sure how advantageous it is because I have never used devices that support it. But it's not like a router that supports beamforming costs a lot. Even the Netgear R6400 supports it, but only on the 5 Ghz band, not the 2.4 GHz band, unlike the R6700. What I didn't know until more recently is implicit vs. explicit. This information is partially what lead to keeping the R6400. 

 

What did you think I thought it was? 



#20 Dark Magician Girl

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:03 PM

Hello

 

Just thought I'd chime in with some advice.

On 2,4GHz networks please don't use anything but channel 1, 6 or 11
Do not use 40MHz channel width unless you live in a place where there are no neighbors.

 

The reason for this is:
Wifi is a half duplex technology. This means that it can only transmit in one direction at a time.
This means that when someone is transmitting you have to be silent untill the other party is done

There are only 3 channels that can operate without interfering with eachother. Those are 1, 6 and 11

Say you are in a crowded area and your neighbors left and right use channel 1 and 6
They can communicate at the same time without problems

Now you connect a wifi on channel 3 in your home

What happens now is that you are sending radio energy that will be detected by both neighbors. This will trigger the oh, somebody is already talking I have to wait function

Everytime your wifi speaks both your neighbors will have to wait until you are done talking
Likewise you will have to wait every time they speak

Had you chosen channel 11 all three of you could speak at the same time


Also, if you use 40MHz channel width you will interfere with all 3 possible interference free channels, no matter what channel you select.
This means that your lust for faster transferspeeds will result in poor wifi for everybody around you

So.. 20MHz channel width and only channel 1, 6 or 11
 

 

If you want more transferspeeds, go with 5GHz equipment.
But dont be a bandwidth hog there too. 40MHz channel width AC should give you plenty of transfer speed and leave room for neighbors to have some too :)

 

tfn

 

I read about this. Curiously, if the 2.4 GHz band is congested across the board, is using 1, 6, or 9 still as important? 

 

My router was set to auto. At the time, it had me on channel 1. I changed it to 6 because it seems to be less congested during the day. But the 2.4 GHz is congested across the board. Excluding my network, the 5 GHz band is usually empty. There is one network that shows up in the evening. It's not labeled.  



#21 Dark Magician Girl

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:04 PM

 

Therefore, a USB wireless adapter might benefit from a lower DBI rating if it is located, for example, on a different floor of a home, right? 
 
USB wireless adapters with external antenna usually pivot. What if I point a USB wireless adapter with a 5 DBI antenna downward (the router is located below) and towards the router? Would this make up for a 5 DBI antenna's reduced vertical coverage?


I believe (but could be wrong) that your typical external omnidirectional antenna is meant to be oriented vertically (like in the picture in the link you provided shows the vertical omnidirectional antenna to the right of the parabolic directional antenna). So, when you have a higher gain external omnidirectional antenna and the 3D signal "map" becomes more of a squished sphere or donut rather than a sphere, the wide parts of that 3D map would correspond to the directions that are perpendicular to the axis of the "linear" shape of the typical external antenna. So, if you point the antenna downward (as I am interpreting downward), you are orienting the antenna so that the "squished" direction of the 3D map is to your disadvantage. You would theoretically want to orient an external antenna horizontally rather than vertically to get the best range to something above or below the router.

And if you have a router with multiple external antenna, this is why it is typically recommended to orient the antennas at right angles (in 3D if you have three or more antennas) to each other.

 

 

My description is a poor one. Picture the antenna in the image located at the bottom of the link I provided pointing upward at a 45 degree angel. Instead of the signal being spread out horizontally, it would be spread out diagonally. The general idea is if I can change the position of a USB wireless adapter's high-gain antenna in a way the signal it is emitting travels toward the router. I assume this to be true if the antenna is external and pivots. 


Edited by Dark Magician Girl, 22 April 2017 - 10:29 PM.


#22 Dark Magician Girl

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:13 PM

Anyway, I think I am going to need to send some e-mails or look at company websites. Apparently, if I want a USB wireless adapter that supports Linux, I should look for certain chips. This information isn't always provided. Further, those that claim to support Linux often do not specify which distributions and versions. It's like advertising a USB wireless adapter supports Windows without specifying whether it supports 7, 8, 8.1, or 10. 



#23 smax013

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 05:36 PM

I read about this. Curiously, if the 2.4 GHz band is congested across the board, is using 1, 6, or 9 still as important?


Yes. Even if the area is congested on the 2.4 GHz band (which is a weakness of the 2.4 GHz band plus possible interference from other sources of 2.4 GHz signals such as cordless phones and microwaves), you should stick to channel 1, 6, or 11. The other channels effectively overlap enough to create interferences, so it is like there is only in effect three channels. For example, if you pick channel 3, you will get overlap from both 1 and 6. So, you are just better off picking either 1 or 6.

Basically, if the 2.4 GHz band is congested enough to be "problematic", then your best option would be to try to use the 5 GHz band as much as you can. Of course, "problematic" is a relative term. From your other thread, you stated you were getting at least 57 Mbps on the 2.4 GHz band, which I would NOT classify as "problematic"...rather more like "less than optimal".

#24 smax013

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 05:39 PM

My description is a poor one. Picture the antenna in the image located at the bottom of the link I provided pointing upward at a 45 degree angel. Instead of the signal being spread out horizontally, it would be spread out diagonally. The general idea is if I can change the position of a USB wireless adapter's high-gain antenna in a way the signal it is emitting travels toward the router. I assume this to be true if the antenna is external and pivots.


Yes.

And while you might come up with a theoretical best orientation of the antenna(s), you might find that the best approach is to just play with the antenna orientation (i.e. try different orientations and see how that effects things) and see which orientation gives you the best signal strength (your cards drivers/software might tell you what it the signal strength is...if not, there are third party applications you can use) and/or speeds.

#25 smax013

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 05:41 PM

Anyway, I think I am going to need to send some e-mails or look at company websites. Apparently, if I want a USB wireless adapter that supports Linux, I should look for certain chips. This information isn't always provided. Further, those that claim to support Linux often do not specify which distributions and versions. It's like advertising a USB wireless adapter supports Windows without specifying whether it supports 7, 8, 8.1, or 10.


You could also try posting in the Linux forum here to see if people can suggest some options.

#26 Dark Magician Girl

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 09:36 PM

 

I read about this. Curiously, if the 2.4 GHz band is congested across the board, is using 1, 6, or 9 still as important?


Yes. Even if the area is congested on the 2.4 GHz band (which is a weakness of the 2.4 GHz band plus possible interference from other sources of 2.4 GHz signals such as cordless phones and microwaves), you should stick to channel 1, 6, or 11. The other channels effectively overlap enough to create interferences, so it is like there is only in effect three channels. For example, if you pick channel 3, you will get overlap from both 1 and 6. So, you are just better off picking either 1 or 6.

Basically, if the 2.4 GHz band is congested enough to be "problematic", then your best option would be to try to use the 5 GHz band as much as you can. Of course, "problematic" is a relative term. From your other thread, you stated you were getting at least 57 Mbps on the 2.4 GHz band, which I would NOT classify as "problematic"...rather more like "less than optimal".

 

 

I see. Understood. Thus far, nobody has complained about dropped connections, so the 2.4 GHz band should be okay. But I'm going to move to the 5 GHz band once I get a wireless adapter that supports it because I would benefit from the additional throughput. 


 

My description is a poor one. Picture the antenna in the image located at the bottom of the link I provided pointing upward at a 45 degree angel. Instead of the signal being spread out horizontally, it would be spread out diagonally. The general idea is if I can change the position of a USB wireless adapter's high-gain antenna in a way the signal it is emitting travels toward the router. I assume this to be true if the antenna is external and pivots.


Yes.

And while you might come up with a theoretical best orientation of the antenna(s), you might find that the best approach is to just play with the antenna orientation (i.e. try different orientations and see how that effects things) and see which orientation gives you the best signal strength (your cards drivers/software might tell you what it the signal strength is...if not, there are third party applications you can use) and/or speeds.

 

 

Okay.


 

Anyway, I think I am going to need to send some e-mails or look at company websites. Apparently, if I want a USB wireless adapter that supports Linux, I should look for certain chips. This information isn't always provided. Further, those that claim to support Linux often do not specify which distributions and versions. It's like advertising a USB wireless adapter supports Windows without specifying whether it supports 7, 8, 8.1, or 10.


You could also try posting in the Linux forum here to see if people can suggest some options.

 

 

Will do. 






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