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Discussion :: Munich Is Ditching Linux

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#1 Condobloke


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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:48 PM

....the general consensus appears that this is for political reasons....



Once the flagbearer of open source adoption, the city of Munich is finally shutting the door on Linux in order to welcome Windows 10


Munich city council voted for an open source policy back in 2004.


Debian was the initial choice but later it was switched to a custom Linux distribution LiMux which is based on Ubuntu. WollMux, OpenOffice with custom templates, is used for the office suite.


WollMux eventually switched to LibreOffice for the obvious reason that OpenOffice is good as dead.


The transition to LiMux took several years to complete. It was in December 2013 that the switch to open source was completed.


Apparently, (some of) the employees of city administrations expressed their displeasure on working with Linux and LibreOffice.


While the transition was successful, not providing adequate training to employees was what lead to this discomfort.



The general council has approved a proposal that the city should look for how long it’ll take to create a Windows 10 client, and what would be the cost.



Microsoft finances a study which says that more money would have been saved by staying with Msft. The study details etc are never made public




Fast forward to 2017. The euphoria over Munich’s open source adoption has died down. The rumors have turned to be true. Munich is going back to Microsoft





Condobloke ...Outback Australian  fed up with Windows antics...??....LINUX IS THE ANSWER....I USE LINUX MINT 18.3  EXCLUSIVELY.

“A man travels the world in search of what he needs and returns home to find it."

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#2 JohnC_21


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Posted 16 March 2017 - 04:52 PM

It all went down hill after a pro-Microsoft mayor was elected.


The use of LiMux was called into question not long after its rollout. Complaints about compatibility, combined with the 2014 election of a Microsoft-favoring mayor, Dieter Reiter, first put the open source deployment in jeopardy. Reiter commissioned a report from consultants—including Microsoft partner Accenture—on IT policy. That report recommended giving staff a choice between Windows/Office and LiMux/LibreOffice. Should Windows and Office prove popular, the report said that the continued financial viability of supporting Linux should be investigated


#3 Gorbulan


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Posted 16 March 2017 - 05:01 PM

They'll be back. Windows has limited time.


With that said, LibreOffice is not a replacement for MS Office, especially now. I can understand why they wanted to go back, since not being able to use MS Office would be a problem.

#4 wizardfromoz


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Posted 16 March 2017 - 06:39 PM

I think the mention that they (Munich Council) have something like 300 customised end user apps in place poses a nearly insuperable problem.


But one wonders how many of those were thoughtlessly added between their adoption of an open-source policy and their rollout of Linux? 10 years to get it right and they got it wrong?


As for MS Office cf LibreOffice:


There are other alternatives to LO besides OO, Kingsoft's WPS Office springs to mind. This was highly favoured by Friend Viper_Security, whom has taken a leave of absence ... but others were using it too.


I have been using word processing since 1990 and Office suites since 1992, starting with (then, Novell's) Word Perfect (home and work), then MS Word/Office in a work environment but also a bit at home because the OS package included it. For serious typists, MS Word did not rate against Word Perfect.


Around 2002/2003, with the release of open source projects such as Open Office, Firefox and Thunderbird, I adopted them all, under Windows, and used Open Office for over 11 years.


Only stopped using OO because in 2014 when I went totally Linux, Libre Office shipped, and you had to totally remove one to put on the other. During all that time, I had less hiccups with formatting and conversion issues than you could count on one hand.


The other side of the coin, is that with complex formulae in spreadsheets, or similar embedded objects &c - if you are running a mission critical app and there are glitches, it could pose a logistical nightmare to work around?


Still, I can't stop feeling that they (Munich) are taking a step backward, after having been so innovative in the early "Noughties".


Nice to see you, Gorbulan.


:wizardball: Wizard


BTW - I have just downloaded WPS and will take it for a spin, soon. Always keep an open mind.

Edited by wizardfromoz, 16 March 2017 - 06:40 PM.

#5 Guest_hollowface_*


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Posted 17 March 2017 - 12:48 AM

Well Windows has changed a lot over the last 10 years, so it's not like they'll be transitioning back to what they had before. I suspect at least a few people will be complaining about Windows 10 if they make this transition.

#6 wizardfromoz


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Posted 17 March 2017 - 01:14 AM

Not sure you are quite looking at the dates, correctly, there, friend hollowface.


Can't print more than a paragraph or so because of copyright.



The city of Munich made headlines in 2003 when it announced its intent to switch 14,000 government PCs from Windows to Linux. While the project suffered delays and setbacks, the migration to LiMux (its custom Ubuntu-based distribution) and LibreOffice was completed in late 2013.


... my highlighting at end.


Windows 8 was released October 26, 2012, and so Council must have had an opportunity to evaluate it?


8.1 released April 8, 2014, and Windows 10 July 29 2015.


The Council election which brought in the pro-Microsoft Mayor was held 30th March 2014.


So it is not so much a question of what has or has not changed in ten years, but rather - what has changed (or not) since Windows 8?


avagudweegend, all


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#7 cat1092


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Posted 21 March 2017 - 06:21 AM

This isn't exactly news, rather a matter of when Munich would make the switch. :)


Anyone who reads the World news a lot, as I do, has certainly ran across this on one or more occasion(s), there's been employees who has struggled with whatever version of Linux being ran, there was the cost of the upkeep (IT Pros), and in general, a desire to go back to Windows. It's been an ongoing discussion for at least 4-5 years, if not longer behind the scenes. and likely could had been avoided with a change of OS. Canonical has field offices all over the World & could had filled the gap, with Ubuntu being the #1 most ran Linux OS, there was LInux Mint at #2, lots of choices over LiMux (based upon Ubuntu). 


In the end, it was already decided, that it would be more cost efficient to go with Windows over Linux, even if new(er) computers has to be purchased, and I'd bet the house that Microsoft will assist with the expense & training needed to get the employees 'back on track'. Munich will of course pay some, yet by no means, the total cost of the transition back to Windows. 


The main question to be asking is 'who is to blame here?'. No doubt, there's lots to go around, yet look at the size of the city, and considering that Linus Torvalds is from the EU, he could had stepped in & not only offered, rather ordered a custom solution, as well as Canonical & other Linux giants. Yes, I'm sure that some efforts were made to keep Munich on Linux, what we don't know is how much effort the main LInux leaders made to keep Munich on Linux, while at the same time, addressing employees concerns over an OS that simply didn't work for them.


That's one thing to keep in mind, just as Home users has the Linux of our choice, the employees of Munich didn't have that luxury, forced to deal with a OS that simply was too complicated to get any work done. While it's a sad day to see such a large city leave Linux, there's a lot of questions that needs answers. The main one being, how much effort did the ones who calls the shots (the power players of Linux) put in to save the city to making the switch? 


The writing has been on the wall for some time, and from the way it appears, given the time frame when first reported, if any of the Linux big shots did anything to prevent this, it was too little, too late. :(


Needless to say, this is a huge loss for Linux, yet there's many more governments running it also, now the focus (unlike with Munich) is to address employee concerns ASAP when reported to avoid any more governments running Linux from jumping ship. It's the employees running the computers to keep things moving, so it's important to give them the tools that's needed to get the job done as easy as possible to avoid another departure to Windows. I guarantee that Microsoft will be more than happy to make all of Munich's employees happy as can be, that the leaders of the Linux world didn't do. 


The bottom line is that happy employees are more productive than those who aren't. It's been proven time & time again. Surely there was a Linux distro that met the need, it's a matter that no one cared to put in the needed effort to make a switch. IMO, Linus Torvalds should have gotten more involved with Munich & had a solution up & running before the new (pro-Microsoft) mayor took office. :)



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