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Linux Forum...separate areas for Support and Discussion


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Poll: Linux Forum. Separate Support & Discussion Areas (13 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you agree that the Linux forum should have two sections, One for Support, and One for Discussion....(similar to the arrangement in windows 10)

  1. Leave the Linux forum as is. (1 votes [7.69%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  2. Support Area & Discussion Area (12 votes [92.31%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 92.31%

Vote

#1 Condobloke

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 10:47 PM

We all know the feeling. Start a new topic asking a question to which we do not have the answer nor the necessary skill to find that answer.
 
The response in the Linux forum is usually fairly immediate.....however, it may or may not address the question asked.
 
There are many, many examples....I will not note them here unless asked to. That would only 'set the cat amongst the pigeons', and cause more drama than there already is.
 
My reasons for starting this poll are::
 
1. I have had a topic where it has been 'hijacked'....the actual topic has been altered in such a way that the resulting topic bears no resemblance to the original post
 
2. Time and time again, topics in this forum are used as "Talkey Places"./....there are those amongst us who just cannot resist adding their two cents worth, Regardless of whether it is related to the OP or not.
 
3.MOST IMPORTANT. there are people who come to BC for help. Thousands and thousands of them. We only see them as "Guests" at the bottom of the pages.  A great number of them search the various topics for the answer to their problem/question
 
On far too many occasions, they are met with walls of text about subjects ranging from the posters experiences 'back in the day' to other trivialities in no way connected to the topic at hand.....
 
.....and they, at times, have to wade through page after page of unmitigated crap......and even then they may not find their answer because in many cases the Opening Poster has abandoned the topic...   frustrated that he/she cannot get an answer to their question/problem etc
 
It would be advantageous to delete posts that do not directly pertain to the OP's question. I believe this idea has merit.
 
 
The suggestion has also been made that each Support Topic should have just one Helper......this is not a situation that I support....however it may well be worthy of consideration.
 
I can hear the first objectors saying something like....all they have to do is stay on topic......easy !!!.....I say to them....read the Linux forum. Objectively. Have a couple of cups of coffee at hand, you will need them.
 
Mod Edit
Fix spelling in post title at OP's request
NickAu

Edited by Al1000, 07 March 2017 - 10:54 AM.
fixed spelling in poll

Condobloke ...Outback Australian  fed up with Windows antics...??....LINUX IS THE ANSWER....I USE LINUX MINT 18.3  EXCLUSIVELY.

“A man travels the world in search of what he needs and returns home to find it."

It has been said that time heals all wounds. I don't agree. The wounds remain. Time - the mind, protecting its sanity - covers them with some scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone. Rose Kennedy

 GcnI1aH.jpg

 

 


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#2 TsVk!

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:04 PM

Good idea mate.

 

Far too often the support topics get dragged down with discussion, and inversely topics that could/should be discussed get cut short off topic.

 

I pity the person who has the task of trying to keep some semblance of "on topic" in a discussion section though. One could simply start a thread called the the "linux perpetual waffle with syrup" and let the thing go.



#3 Condobloke

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:21 PM

Thanks TsVk,

 

"the linux perpetual waffle with syrup"....is exactly, on occasion, what we have currently !

 

Staying on topic in the Support area would very quickly become the new norm.

 

In the Discussion area......yes, that could be a daunting task....but no more so than it is already.

 

At the very least the people seeking serious support....would get just that


Edited by Condobloke, 19 February 2017 - 11:23 PM.

Condobloke ...Outback Australian  fed up with Windows antics...??....LINUX IS THE ANSWER....I USE LINUX MINT 18.3  EXCLUSIVELY.

“A man travels the world in search of what he needs and returns home to find it."

It has been said that time heals all wounds. I don't agree. The wounds remain. Time - the mind, protecting its sanity - covers them with some scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone. Rose Kennedy

 GcnI1aH.jpg

 

 


#4 NickAu

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Posted 19 February 2017 - 11:31 PM

Why is it so hard to stay on topic? If members want to start a discussion all they have to do is start a new post calling it XXXXXX ( discussion ).

 

It would be advantageous to delete posts that do not directly pertain to the OP's question. I believe this idea has merit.

I will vote yes on the condition that Support is just that, support, and anything not directly related to the OP's question be deleted also there will be no help provided in the Discussion section.



#5 Condobloke

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 12:08 AM

Why, indeed, is it so hard to stay on topic. Yet...here we are. The windows 10 forum has already felt the need to do the discussion subsection arrangement....and to a large extent it appears successful.

 

Differing opinions are what keeps the world stable....but when it interferes with an op's understanding of the difficulties experienced in Linux.....the support needs to come from one or two experienced helpers.

 

The situation will always present itself where X person will slightly/vehemently disagree with what has been put forward in a topic requiring support.

 

The natural instinct here is to type....voice the disagreement etc

 

.....and there goes the topic......because if X does it then so will Y,Z, ABCD...etc

 

In the idea under review here, the Moderator on duty would simply delete that comment/s

 

(If the content is that objectionable, then the report button needs to be used...and a Moderator will sort out the drama/misinformation/offensive comment etc)

 

 

SO.....the topic will STAY on topic....because as I said earlier, Staying on topic in the Support area would very quickly become the new norm.

 

Those who get their kicks out of derailing topics etc, will soon tire of having their off topic comments deleted.

 

There is also no reason why the same approach cannot be extended to the Discussion area.......as TsVk (Malware Study Hall Senior) said....Far too often the support topics get dragged down with discussion, and inversely topics that could/should be discussed get cut short off topic.

 

Why is it so hard ?....human nature

 

The tricky part at BC ?....channeling the forum support and discussion in such a manner that it works for those who need it the most......

 

 

Grinler...

"" Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers in an atmosphere that is both helpful and welcoming. With over 700,000 registered members asking and answering questions, BleepingComputer.com has become a vibrant and lively community of like-minded people. Now it is your turn to become part of this experience.

 

BleepingComputer is paid for completely by advertisement revenue and the staff are all volunteers. What this means is that any support and advice you receive from this site is completely free. Sounds like a good deal, right? Let's make it sweeter then; as a registered user you will also no longer see any ads at all on this site! What are you waiting for?

 

Learn how to get started asking questions and helping others in the forums with the simple instructions below:""........etc

 

 

 

....it doesn't say anything there about having to put up with linux perpetual waffle with syrup.....and I am absolutely certain that it is not intended to be that way.


Condobloke ...Outback Australian  fed up with Windows antics...??....LINUX IS THE ANSWER....I USE LINUX MINT 18.3  EXCLUSIVELY.

“A man travels the world in search of what he needs and returns home to find it."

It has been said that time heals all wounds. I don't agree. The wounds remain. Time - the mind, protecting its sanity - covers them with some scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone. Rose Kennedy

 GcnI1aH.jpg

 

 


#6 Gary R

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 12:59 AM

I think keeping support topics separate from discussion topics is a good idea, and it should in theory be fairly simple to keep support topics on topic, since the parameters for the topic are usually pretty well defined.

 

However, it's the nature of discussion topics to wander a little, and keeping them too on-topic could restrict the discussion, so provided the discussion doesn't go wildly away from the original point of the topic, then I believe they should be moderated with a light touch.



#7 The-Toolman

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 07:12 AM


However, it's the nature of discussion topics to wander a little, and keeping them too on-topic could restrict the discussion, so provided the discussion doesn't go wildly away from the original point of the topic, then I believe they should be moderated with a light touch.

Sometimes wandering off topic is necessary as it is needed for comparison and explanation purposes. I haven't seen a thread yet that doesn't drift off topic from time to time especially where discussing different issues. A discussion is just that a discussion and always is and will and SHOULD cover all points.

 

The Linux UNIX section should have its own discussion section. I for one believe it is a well needed addition for completing the Linux UNIX section of this forum.

 

I say it's a very good idea. :thumbsup:


Edited by The-Toolman, 20 February 2017 - 07:13 AM.

I'm grumpy because I can be not because I'm old.

 

The world is what you make of it, if it doesn't fit, you make alterations.

 

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#8 Rocky Bennett

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 02:23 PM

Although I am an infrequent visitor to this site, being a Windows 10 Wizard, I do have a couple of Linux distros on my computer that I run and maintain. I read the entire other thread (thanks for pinning), so I wholeheartedly support a separate area where I can just drop in and ramble on about Linux ideas without having a specific problem to discuss.


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#9 Mike_Walsh

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 04:44 PM

Well, well, well.....

 

I seem to have opened a right can of worms here, don't I? Of course, it's entirely possible that my thread merely crystallized a line of thought that was perhaps developing even before I joined, last year; I wouldn't like to say..!

 

As regards the 'Linux waffle with syrup', well; I thought this might be worth mentioning here. A few months after joining the Puppy Forums, I started a thread in the 'Off-topic' section, basically saying how I thought Puppy was the best thing sliced bread as far as the old Dell was concerned.

 

Well, it took first one turn.....then another.....rapidly followed by another, and another. By around page 5 or 6, it was already bearing no resemblance to the original post (not that it bothered me. I'd intended that it should become a general thread about anything & everything!)

 

It eventually ran to around 19 pages. For anyone who might like to peruse it, the thread can be found here:-

 

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=96487

 

My point being, that I agree with Brian, by and large. At the same time, I will state here & now that it doesn't bother me one way or another what the outcome turns out to be. If necessary, I will start to practice the oft-advised maxim in so many of these cases; 'If you have nothing useful to contribute.....don't!'

 

I can keep quiet if needs be.

 

(Over at Murga-Linux, we now have a sole moderator; Flash. Who does an admirable job of keeping a large bunch of scruffy, rag-tag, marvellous guys'n'gals under some semblance of control.)

 

We've had newcomers to the Forum who, within days of joining, are straightaway complaining about the lack of organisation, and strongly suggesting that the whole should become strictly regimented, with large lists of rules & regulations to be rigorously adhered to. I say 'Pish on that.' The Forum would lose its character overnight; would cease to be the welcoming, highly enjoyable place that it is.....and I suspect the membership would desert it in droves.

 

It's a difficult job, moderating any kind of forum at the best of times. Several years ago, a small group of dissenters got right up in the staff's faces about the 'lack of direction' of the Forum as a whole. The ringleader even went so far as to go off and start his own forum up.....which really turned into a one-man show, under his sole iron control. Woe betide you if you didn't agree with him.....

 

The site has become a ghost town in all but name. There hasn't been a single post made since the 7th of December last year. You'll notice how almost every last post has been made by an individual called 'puppyite'; this is the site's founder. If anyone's curious about how not to run a forum, well, here it is:-

 

http://www.puppylinuxforum.org/

 

It's not a very friendly place.....at all. But there's no accounting for tastes; it might suit some people down to the ground..!  :scratchhead:

 

 

Mike.  :wink:


Edited by Mike_Walsh, 20 February 2017 - 05:06 PM.

Distros:- Multiple 'Puppies'..... and Anti-X 16.1

My Puppy BLOG ~~~  My Puppy PACKAGES

Compaq Presario SR1916UK; Athlon64 X2 3800+, 3 GB RAM, WD 500GB Caviar 'Blue', 32GB Kingspec PATA SSD, 3 TB Seagate 'Expansion' external HDD, ATI Radeon Xpress 200 graphics, Dell 15.1" pNp monitor (1024 x 768), TP-Link PCI-e USB 3.0 card, Logitech c920 HD Pro webcam, self-powered 7-port USB 2.0 hub

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#10 Condobloke

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 05:53 PM

Just so the record is straight Mike....i do not support "" strictly regimented, with large lists of rules & regulations to be rigorously adhered to.""

 

As we both have said...this is a friendly place....and it will stay that way.

 

 

Simply..... a dividing line between support topics and discussion topics, so that those needing Support, get just that.

 

....and those who wish to discuss the many, many areas which Linux carries along with it.......are free to do so. (within the usual boundaries) 


Condobloke ...Outback Australian  fed up with Windows antics...??....LINUX IS THE ANSWER....I USE LINUX MINT 18.3  EXCLUSIVELY.

“A man travels the world in search of what he needs and returns home to find it."

It has been said that time heals all wounds. I don't agree. The wounds remain. Time - the mind, protecting its sanity - covers them with some scar tissue and the pain lessens, but it is never gone. Rose Kennedy

 GcnI1aH.jpg

 

 


#11 wizardfromoz

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 06:26 PM

....so I wholeheartedly support a separate area where I can just drop in and ramble on about Linux ideas without having a specific problem to discuss.

 

I am with Rocky ... goodonyer, Junior :thumbup2:

 

Given we have 117 pages of Topics here, who is the poor sap who gets to sort them out. How was this done with the Windows operation?

 

This is a lot bigger than when Al1000 slaved away to morph the Live CD Section into the Linux How-to & Tutorial Section.

 

Cheers all

 

:wizardball: Wizard



#12 NickAu

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 07:09 PM

 

..so I wholeheartedly support a separate area where I can just drop in and ramble on about Linux ideas without having a specific problem to discuss.

You can do that now, Start a post called my Linux ramblings,



#13 wizardfromoz

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 10:14 PM

Sorry, you talking to Rocky or to me, Nick?

 

 

Mod Edit

Fix spelling in post title at OP's request

NickAu

 

:wizardball: Wizard



#14 cat1092

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 10:21 PM

If a not even two year old (as a licensed & deep in 2nd place) OS such as Windows 10 can have a Discussion area, then so should we, there was a Linux Forum long before anyone thought of W10, or even 1st place W7 for that matter. :)

 

While Nick has a point in one can simply create a Topic & let it rip, this causes a double negative effect. Both Support & Discussion Topics (combined as are now) are buried pages deep fast, once the last response is made. When both are separate, the effect isn't as noticeable, and keeps Topics on both sides up in the rankings, which would provide another benefit to the Community (though not immediate), Google hits leading folks to where what one wants to see. When a link is clicked onto, it climbs up on their 'hit' list (there is a term for that, though I don't know the acronym), and makes our site stand out more. Members are less apt to click onto Topic w/out a response for two years......and when these does, some are first time posters, often Spammers. Yet when these are reported, can be dealt with, and I encourage all to report spam or inflammatory posts as soon as read. This happens on most all tech Forums, should not negate the effects of what we desire to achieve, important Topics getting buried 25+ pages deep & not having exposure. 

 

It works like this......the longer a Topic stays dead, it gradually fades off of Google hits when researching, then when clicked on (via Google), moves up a notch again. Keeping both separate, while not a 100% cure to that solution, as eventually all Topics fizzles out, keeps these relevant much longer, for both sides. Note that not everyone who participates in the Linux section (or are our loyal visitors, whom probably outnumbers the entire Community by double) are having issues, rather wants to discuss a matter, or look it up if researching. So that's the 'double negative' effect as it stands today. Both the Forum search tool & Google hits to Topics may be missed. While am on the subject, Google actually dug up my own Topics faster than the search feature of the Forum, when I had to go back to these, or wanted to find the fastest way possible. :)

 

If were to have each separate, as others has pointed out, this should lead to less off-Topic discussion in the Support Topics, where members can then find an appropriate Discussion Topic where their input would be more welcome. Of course, no matter what, this will happen to a degree, though the Moderators can move (or ask a member to edit post if less than 24 hours) off-Topic postings, and there will be some that'll have to be deleted on both sides. It's that way all across the site, one cannot even go into General Chat or The Speak Easy & crash a OP's Topic with nonsense, posts are edited/removed from all over the site, not just within our Community. 

 

I see having a Discussion area as an extension to the massive overhaul that as a Team, us Staffers made in a fairly quick time, given the task that was on our hands, within a few months time, get the Linux section, which at one point (when myself & about 3 other members arrived from the XP one) was a total chaos, turned into a respectable Linux Forum. One that unlike many 'dedicated' Linux Forums, a family oriented one, w/out all of the open (& deep personal) bashing, one glaring example that those who has ran Linux for years knows, we don't bash others over what other OS's our members runs (this is a Site wide rule as it pertains to personal bashing), we only ask that members ask questions about other OS's in the proper Forum. Other than (example) 'how do I setup dual boot Linux with Windows?', which would be considered a proper question to ask here & probably gets asked several times per week. :P

 

The above would be a good example of a Discussion question, though in some cases, may have to be moved to Support, or after the member collects the needed information as pertains to the subject, then create a new Topic in Support. Note that not everyone wanting information are looking for Support, and it's my guess that less than half who asks such a question actually follows through, once everything is seen. 

 

Final thoughts, I simply believe that our Linux Community will be a better experience for everyone with a separate Discussion area. :)

 

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#15 cat1092

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Posted 20 February 2017 - 10:28 PM

You can do that now, Start a post called my Linux ramblings,

 

 

 

Yeah, we once had a somewhat active member with a Topic bearing a very identical name, and while it would had fitted in Discussion nicely, there was indeed a lot of rambling, maybe a dozen or so pages worth a year or longer back. Of course, some posts had to be removed, the Topic veered a lot, finally fizzed out. :P

 

Cat


Performing full disc images weekly and keeping important data off of the 'C' drive as generated can be the best defence against Malware/Ransomware attacks, as well as a wide range of other issues. 





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