Jump to content


 


Register a free account to unlock additional features at BleepingComputer.com
Welcome to BleepingComputer, a free community where people like yourself come together to discuss and learn how to use their computers. Using the site is easy and fun. As a guest, you can browse and view the various discussions in the forums, but can not create a new topic or reply to an existing one unless you are logged in. Other benefits of registering an account are subscribing to topics and forums, creating a blog, and having no ads shown anywhere on the site.


Click here to Register a free account now! or read our Welcome Guide to learn how to use this site.

Photo

Win 10 Shutdown and Update process damaged my attached USB hard drive


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 klgrube

klgrube

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  

Posted 07 February 2017 - 08:50 PM

I had a problem with a Windows 10 update process that caused a USB-connected external hard drive to be corrupted and inaccessible. I was actually accessing the drive (searching for a file) when a Windows 10 update forced me to "shutdown and update." The system ground to a screeching halt, and when that happens, I know it's Microsoft forcing me to do a Windows 10 update. When I hit the Windows button, I saw that I was right; Windows was forcing me to update. I believe the forced shutdown while I was accessing the drive is what corrupted it.

I have exhausted all of Microsoft's technical support avenues, and the drive is now sitting at the Microsoft Store in Fashion Valley (San Diego) waiting for someone to authorize sending the drive to Seagate for data recovery at no charge to me. There is absolutely nothing more the store or technical support can do at this point except assist me in recovering the data assuming it's recoverable. I just won't let Microsoft damage my little external hard drive (1 terabyte) and then make me pay to get my data back. That's just not right.

I have been trying for about two months to get through to someone at a higher level at Microsoft who can authorize the store to send the drive out for recovery, but Microsoft makes that nearly impossible. I've even faxed the complaint department several times. Microsoft doesn't seem to have an executive level customer relations department at all, and no one at the store, at the Answer Desk, or in tier three tech support has been helpful beyond telling me there's nothing more they can do and no one else they can refer me to.

Every single person I've spoken with about this has refused to escalate my request to anyone higher beyond the level of the store manager and a tech support supervisor, neither of which can authorize the data recovery at no charge to me. I find that outrageous and unacceptable. I've even had Microsoft technicians tell me the situation I described is certainly possible. It would be just absolutely too coincidental for the drive to have failed at just the moment Microsoft was forcing me to update. As soon as the update was complete, the system rebooted. When I tried to access the drive again, it wasn't recognized. It was listed in the Device Manager, but Disk Management couldn't initialize it for some reason. So, I was told to take it to the Store, and they've been of no help.

They keep telling me their tech support says the update can't damage a drive, and I keep having to constantly repeat that it isn't the update itself that damaged the drive, but the SHUTDOWN part of the shutdown and update process.  They just don't get it. I think this happened because the system was put in this "non responsive" state in order to force the update and happened to be accessing the external hard drive at that exact moment.

I'm interested in hearing whether anyone else has experienced their system becoming unresponsive when Windows 10 wants to update? Does anyone else think it's possible that shutting down while accessing a connected drive could have caused the drive to be corrupted? Please let me know what you think and if you have any suggestions as to where I can find documentation that this is a known issue. They're refusing to admit it, but I know I can't be the only one.


Edited by klgrube, 07 February 2017 - 09:02 PM.


BC AdBot (Login to Remove)

 


#2 klgrube

klgrube
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  

Posted 07 February 2017 - 09:01 PM

I just got off the phone with a really inexperienced level 3 technician at Microsoft who claimed that shutting down and removing the power from a hard drive can't cause any damage.  I'm sorry, but as a programmer and SQL Server DBA for over 25 years, I know first hand what can happen to a hard drive when power is suddenly shut-off, as happened to me in the case of an earthquake and more than one major building power outage   I get it that the normal shutdown is non-destructive.  What I'm trying unsuccessfully to get across to them is that it wasn't a "normal" shutdown, with the system being made unresponsive (no keyboard response, no mouse click response except the "shut down and update" button) by the forced update WHILE the external drive was being accessed. 

If you have seen Windows becoming unresponsive like this when it wants to force you to update or you've had issues with an external drive when something like that happens, please let me know.



#3 JohnC_21

JohnC_21

  • Members
  • 24,033 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:02:22 AM

Posted 07 February 2017 - 09:01 PM

There is a known problem of Windows 10 updates corrupting external drives during an update. I will have to track down the thread but a member here had it happen to a friend. I will have to track down the thread but the member is britechguy. You may want to PM him. There are numerous pages on the web about the problem. This was with the Anniversary update. Edit: It may be the bug has returned. Another reason I refuse to install this OS.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/4vyifo/bug_windows_10_anniversary_update_tanked/

 

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-hardware/unable-to-access-external-hard-drive/809332d0-38d3-4cea-94c1-f1872b7b4ba1

 

https://community.wd.com/t/my-passport-ultra-read-as-raw-after-windows-10s-anniversary-update/174638

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2748231/external-hard-drive-unaccessible-upgrading-windows.html

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-3166274/elements-raw-disk-management-due-bug-anniversary-update-1607.html

 

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-hardware/external-usb-30-hdds-not-accesible-after-windows/fcaef561-e0b8-4368-ba92-9c0aa7ff54f1

 

https://www.technibble.com/forums/threads/windows-10-anniversary-issue-with-external-hard-drives.71473/

 

Edit: Here is the BC thread. Personally, I would disable the Windows 10 hybrid shutdown and hibernation.


Edited by JohnC_21, 07 February 2017 - 09:05 PM.


#4 klgrube

klgrube
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  

Posted 07 February 2017 - 09:05 PM

Thank you so very much!  I'm going to check all of that and forward them to the Microsoft Store Manager who's giving me such a hard time about this. 



#5 JohnC_21

JohnC_21

  • Members
  • 24,033 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:02:22 AM

Posted 07 February 2017 - 09:06 PM

See my edited post on the BC thread. Good Luck.

 

Edit:

 

http://borncity.com/win/2016/09/03/windows-10-version-1607-not-recognizing-external-usb-discs/

 

In this MS Answers thread Microsoft employee Mahesh Dudgikar confirms, that KB3176934 doesn’t has a fix for the RAW format but. His post, dated from August 24, 2016, quotes, that MS has identified the problem. They intend to send the fix to several machines before a global rollout via Windows Update is made. Maybe this explains, why some people sees that an update has fixed the issue and others are left with a broken device.

 


Edited by JohnC_21, 07 February 2017 - 09:09 PM.


#6 klgrube

klgrube
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  

Posted 08 February 2017 - 01:49 PM

So far, the Store itself is refusing to help in any way saying they don't believe the update caused my problem.  I'm considering filing a Small Claims Lawsuit against Microsoft or going through the Microsoft Dispute Process.  I have a call in to an attorney to discuss my options.  In the meantime, I faxed yet a seventh complaint to Microsoft about this and have been told that I should hear from a Customer Advocate shortly.  I don't know exactly what that means, but I have only 8 days to get this resolved before I have to retrieve the external hard drive from the Store or they will send it out for recycling.

Does anyone know if there is currently a class action lawsuit against Microsoft regarding the Windows 10 upgrade or update process?  Honestly, I am furious at being stonewalled and lied to like this.



#7 JohnC_21

JohnC_21

  • Members
  • 24,033 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:02:22 AM

Posted 08 February 2017 - 02:26 PM

Do not let Microsoft send it out for recycling. If the drive is listed as RAW there is a good chance you can recover all your data depending on how Windows 10 affected the drive. It could just be a matter of writing a new partition table.There are few programs that can be used to recover the data. 

 

When you have the drive back in your possession post back. If I don't respond then give me a PM.

 

Not sure about the class action suit though. I have not heard of any related to the hard drive issue, only the upgrade to Windows 10.



#8 klgrube

klgrube
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  

Posted 08 February 2017 - 05:21 PM

So, I faxed yet another complaint to Microsoft and all they did was dump it once again to their so-called "Global escalation services" which is a third-party contractor for Microsoft and not even Microsoft employees.  All they are really is their tier three tech support who can't authorize the repair to the drive.  What is WRONG with Microsoft?  Are they intentionally forcing me to sue them?  Good grief!  Trust me, I will subpoena every call, every email, and every person at the Microsoft Store I dealt with, and it will cost them much more than the $600 it will cost to send the drive to Seagate for data recovery.

 

Someone did finally call back from escalations. After 30 minutes of being told there was nothing he can do then asking to speak with this guy's supervisor or manager, I finally got him to agree to see if he can get someone on his so-called "management team" to call me back, but he said they don't even have the authority to authorize the data recovery.  The store tells me the drive is dead, so my only option is to try some form of actual data recovery.  All I've been asking for since day one is to speak with someone AT MCROSOFT who will acknowledge that this is indeed their responsibility and authorize the recovery. 

 

I am so furious!  I will drop back by to let you know what I hear tomorrow or if I do indeed end up suing them.  I just\ won't stand for being treated this way.

Microsoft does have a dispute resolution provision.  Perhaps someone hear knows how that works or if that will be a better option than suing them in Small Claims Court.


Edited by klgrube, 08 February 2017 - 09:47 PM.


#9 ya-ya

ya-ya

  • Members
  • 1 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Local time:12:22 AM

Posted 13 February 2017 - 08:41 PM

Having very similar issues klgrube! Please keep us posted on what you find out. I did find out there is a class action lawsuit over the Seagate Backup Plus 3TB drive, which is the one I have that hasn't been recognized since I updated to Windows 10! Also getting lots of BSOD and endless "startup repair" issues. Thank you for all the links JohnC_21-- will check those out tonight.



#10 klgrube

klgrube
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  

Posted 13 February 2017 - 08:54 PM

I just spoke with Teri Goldstein, the woman who sued Microsoft over the forced Windows 10 Upgrade and won a $10,000 judgment.  She said that filing a proper Notice of Dispute with Microsoft is the best way to go.  The example she outlines in her e-book has all of the California Consumer Protection codes and laws to quote and the correct way of going about proceeding with filing a Dispute. 

 

In the meantime, this afternoon I spoke with yet another technical support agent in some foreign country who tried to tell me they wouldn't help recover my data.  I had to literally scream into the phone at least a dozen times that I wanted to speak with this boss. I get so sick and tired of being told "I am the highest level of customer service you can speak with." and "My boss will just tell you the same thing."  I can't even begin to tell you how infuriating that is.

 

So,when I spoke with his boss, he agreed to talk over the situation with the Store tomorrow and see what they could do.  I'll wait to hear from them to decide what to do.



#11 klgrube

klgrube
  • Topic Starter

  • Members
  • 7 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  

Posted 01 March 2017 - 04:17 PM

The external drive finally arrived at DriveSavers and they just let me know that the drive suffered "catastrophic" damage and no data is recoverable.

I will be receiving a report from them by email shortly detailing what they found, and the drive back by mail in a few days.

I did discuss with a technician the possibility of the damage being caused by the power being removed during the forced update. What he said was that a normal shutdown process first makes sure that all external devices are no longer being accessed. He said that part of the shut down procedure is to make sure that all processes have ended before the shut down. I understand that typically works well for a normal shutdown, but I'm not convinced that it worked correctly in this circumstance, where all the resources were being used to run the update and that it may not have had the resources necessary to stop the search I was running on the external drive at that particular moment before removing power to the device. He couldn't say whether or not removing the power suddenly might have caused the damage they saw, though he said it wasn't likely. Their job is to recover data when they can, not make a determination as to what caused the loss.

If you have any thoughts about whether or not the power being removed suddenly may have caused this level of damage, please let me know.



#12 JohnC_21

JohnC_21

  • Members
  • 24,033 posts
  • OFFLINE
  •  
  • Gender:Male
  • Local time:02:22 AM

Posted 02 March 2017 - 08:17 AM

In my experience removing power to a drive as it writing can cause a loss of data due to file corruption but does not cause a hardware failure. 

 

I did find some links regarding the class action suit against Seagate. It depends on the model of the drive.

 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3028981/storage/seagate-slapped-with-a-class-action-lawsuit-over-hard-drive-failure-rates.html

 

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/222267-seagate-faces-lawsuit-over-3tb-hard-drive-failure-rates

 

http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/tech/2016/02/08/how-determine-if-your-computers-hard-drive-falls-under-class-action-lawsuit/79775094/






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users