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Linux vs. Windows


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#1 pcpunk

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 01:53 PM

I've often wondered with all the complaining about Windows operating systems why wouldn't Microsoft make a few versions of an OS, more so than the way they do it now.  Like a Windows 10 but with the layout, of say, a Windows 7 Pro?  And with less apps, maybe just the base of Windows 10?

 

Linux is a different beast, but each of the popular Developers (for the most part) has multiple Versions of an OS for different folks likes and tastes, hardware etc.

 

So why can't a company worth Billions of dollars produce a few different OS's to serve the public better?  And, it would be really nice seeing an OS that would work on older XP and Vista pc's so they don't need to be crushed in the name of making another Billion! for M.S. and the many OEM's?  Many people only need to email and share with their family on facebook, Skype etc.

 

pc 


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#2 Chris Cosgrove

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 04:30 PM

I'm an innocent and simple minded computer user, for years I have argued that an OS should be exactly that, a platform to run your applications on and not something that tries to include a bit of everything the average user might possibly want. Only, it's not going to happen !

 

There is a reason for all that bloatware on that nice shiny laptop you just bought, a lot of users would take an awful long time to get any work or leisure done if they didn't have a starter kit.

 

Yes, I would like a stripped down version of Win 10 but I think you would find that the only market would be among those willing and able to build their own computers and that is not going to appeal to the OEMs so they are not going to support it. On top of that, how many people do build their own computers ?  I suspect that it is a relatively tiny fraction of the total market which means it wouldn't be cost effective for MS to produce and maintain such a version. OK, maintenance shouldn't cost any more since they would have to maintain the core any way but it would cost them to produce and market such a version.

 

There are some very stripped down Linux distros - Pupppy for example - but distros like Mint come with a fair amount of included applications. Some applications in Mint, for example, are at least as easy to install as any Windows application but there are many others which are much more complex, indeed can cause a fair amount of head-scratching.

 

As for your final point about an OS to run on fairly elderly computers, XP and Vista systems, although the various sections of BC have numerous topics about computers using these somewhat dated OS, again I believe they are in a serious minority. The last usage figures I saw suggested XP at 14% and I think Vista was down about 1-2%. And I am not knocking XP, I thought it was an excellent and robust OS, I was using it until about seven or eight years ago. So the same applies, it would not be cost effective to develop a modern OS, even a minimalist one, to run on a dwindling number of machines.

 

And yes, many contemporary Linux distros will run on these old machines but that is as much as anything a happy accident. You are as familiar as I am with comments in the Linux section about mainstream distros moving to 64 bit.

 

Chris Cosgrove



#3 The-Toolman

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 04:37 PM

Microsoft doesn't have to change and this has already been proven by end-users willingness to accept and use Windows 10.

Most people I know don't tinker or repair or tweak their OS as they are willing to use it as it comes as long as it half way works.

 

Microsoft knows that people are chumps and going to buy their product.

I used it for years until I discovered Linux and said goodbye to Microsoft.

 

Microsoft doesn't care and never has cared about making it customers happy.

 

:lmao:

 

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#4 ranchhand_

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 05:06 PM

 

why wouldn't Microsoft make a few versions of an OS, more so than the way they do it now

#1: They make more money with a single OS. Every OS needs support, updates, revising and updating the OS to deal with new technology advances, etc. etc. That all costs money-lots of it-and if the OS isn't generating enough sales income, it gets scrapped. If they don't do that they go under. The more OSs, the more staff required to support the above stated reasons.

 

#2: M/Soft has an agenda: they are aiming for total cloud computing, that is clear, and multiple OSs would distract from that goal. They want total control over their OS and your computer. Want confirmation? Read your EULA. "All your data are belong to us." Total cloud computing with even the operating system streaming from M/Soft's immense servers would accomplish exactly that. 

 

 

produce a few different OS's to serve the public better?

M/Soft's goal and mission is not in serving the public better. Their goal is identical to their founder's goal when he was a kid working out of his garage: get rich(er). They provide an excellent product that people want to purchase, and they maintain it and help their customers with it because that encourages others to buy it also, not because it makes them feel warm and fuzzy at night when they go to bed.  When any business loses track of the goal of increasing the profit line, they enter financial death row. M/Soft is the big gorilla in the software world, and they are keenly aware that if they do not keep domination they will die. Do not confuse business with philanthropic institutions. Philanthropy can only exist because the donor has already made mega-millions using the business tool and wishes to share it free of charge with others in need, an admirable and humane philosophy. Business  is a whole different dimension of reality. This is America, top-dog in the world, and we have developed corporate business acumen to a fine-running machine that destroys anything in its quest for the almighty dollar. Look what it is doing to our environment, if you don't believe it.

Just IMHO.


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#5 pcpunk

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 07:05 PM

Lot's of good points there guys thanks!  Maybe this should be in the W10 Section, nevertheless, it seems as though W10 missed the mark for business and for the elderly.  Seems to me that something shaped more like W7 would be better for business, and W10 may have been a good idea as a new direction to make computing easier for the masses, but it don't seem it all played out that way does it? your thoughts...  I wonder if it would even be feasible to make a W10 OS, but in a Shell to make it look and function like W7? or are there just to many new things in Ten that would not work with the old shell.  One thing I see done with the Seniors, is the Classic Shell installed so they can maneuver around the OS more like they did with XP, Vista and Windows 7.  So do you guys think this was not possible for MS, or they just thought they knew what people wanted and therefore structured W10 as they did?  Why would they change, and force people to learn All Over Again...how to use a new OS?  

 

Honestly, my first foray into Windows 8.1 was at work, my first day - with a horrible coach by the way - was total hell.  I was completely lost and made my learning curve very difficult.  I was working in Security and really needed to have access to all the programs we used, but once and awhile, I would lose one of them into the Black LOL.  Then would be swiping, tapping, putting my cursor into all corners LOL it was a horrible experience.  I really needed a class on JUST using the OS, instead of having a similar layout to XP, Vista, W7 I was really lost for no good reason to me LOL.  Needless to say....M.S. was getting a good thrashing from me for about a week, even though I got the basics down sooner.  I just don't understand putting people through all this if it is not needed?  

 

Tiles? I still don't know many people that use or like Tiles LOL.  Every Senior I ask say they hate the way W10 functions, I think that says it all.  I wonder what experience you guys have had with some of the younger people that had to get used to the newer style of OS 8-8.1 and 10?  I've asked a few and they don't seem to mind them.  I'm using my 8.1 now with the Classic Shell and it's not to bad, but still need to install 10 to really see if it is as bad as the Seniors are saying.

 

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#6 The-Toolman

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 07:47 PM

Microsoft isn't concerned what seniors think of their OS.

 

It's all about the mobile scene today cell phones and tablets and laptops that can be turned into tablets.

 

As already mentioned in an earlier post Cloud Base and Control of your Computer and Use of Your Personal Information to sell for advertisement purposes. (M$)


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#7 pcpunk

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Posted 04 February 2017 - 08:21 PM

Well, from my perspective, I see tons of Seniors using computers, and Windows 10, but I live in an area where there are lots of Seniors.  They like their Tablets, but sometimes it is just too confusing to do some things on a Tablet.  Many of them were forced into W10 and of course don't like it very well for the reasons I mentioned.


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#8 The-Toolman

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 11:43 AM

 Many of them were forced into W10 and of course don't like it very well for the reasons I mentioned.

As much as I hate to say MS forced nobody into taking the free Windows 10 upgrade.

 

The choice was up to the end-user by accepting the EULA after allowing the Windows 10 upgrade update to install on their computer.

 

The Windows 10 upgrade update was easily preventable by the changing the update setting from allow Windows updates to download and install updates automatically to "Let me download and choose what updates to install". Or something as to that.

Point being is the End-User had control over what and when updates are installed.

 

I'm not saying that seniors don't use Windows 10 I'm saying that Microsoft doesn't care what ANYONE'S opinion is about Windows 10.

Most people will accept Windows 10 as most people don't like or are afraid to change and also don't want to exercise the little gray cells of the brain from the learning curve that a different OS may present to them.


I'm grumpy because I can be not because I'm old.

 

The world is what you make of it, if it doesn't fit, you make alterations.

 

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.  (Mark Twain)


#9 Al1000

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 12:25 PM

Unlike Windows 10, Linux doesn't want to know your email address. It doesn't care who you are.

Windows 10 wants to target you with personalised advertising, whereas Linux just wants to operate your computer.

#10 The-Toolman

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 01:43 PM

Windows 10 wants to target you with personalised advertising, whereas Linux just wants to operate your computer.

It's not only Microsoft it's also Google who wants to target you with personalized advertising.


I'm grumpy because I can be not because I'm old.

 

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Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.  (Mark Twain)


#11 Al1000

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 01:46 PM

Indeed, but Google isn't really relevant here, since this is about Linux versus Windows.

#12 The-Toolman

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 02:23 PM

Indeed, but Google isn't really relevant here, since this is about Linux versus Windows.

My mistake. :oopsign:


Edited by The-Toolman, 05 February 2017 - 02:25 PM.

I'm grumpy because I can be not because I'm old.

 

The world is what you make of it, if it doesn't fit, you make alterations.

 

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.  (Mark Twain)


#13 Al1000

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 02:42 PM

No problem. :)

One version of Linux did at one time, by default, send desktop search results to Amazon and display their shopping results on the desktop, but they stopped doing that a few years ago.

Ubuntu's Unity 8 desktop will remove the Amazon search 'spyware'

#14 pcpunk

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 02:46 PM

 

 Many of them were forced into W10 and of course don't like it very well for the reasons I mentioned.

As much as I hate to say MS forced nobody into taking the free Windows 10 upgrade.

 

The choice was up to the end-user by accepting the EULA after allowing the Windows 10 upgrade update to install on their computer.

 

The Windows 10 upgrade update was easily preventable by the changing the update setting from allow Windows updates to download and install updates automatically to "Let me download and choose what updates to install". Or something as to that.

Point being is the End-User had control over what and when updates are installed.

I was working on a customers pc less than a month ago, went to shut it down, and to my surprise it started installing W10.  The customer must not have been shutting down the laptop for months and months, but instead just closing lid and sleeping it, even leaving it Sleeping in the car on the way down from northern home.  So this can happen, and has happened to many I have read about. 

 

Most Seniors don't know about choosing Updates, and don't really need to waste their time knowing about it, or just will never be able to know these things.  They need easy, and the Windows 10 experience is a little ADD IMO.  I and many of the Seniors I speak with don't like Tiles.

 

This is the point of this thread, if they had an OS that was a little easier to navigate and not such a departure from what these older people were used to it would be much better for them.  And I believe that Seniors are a Big Part of their sales but cannot find any good data to present.  Linux has choices, Microsoft don't, at least not all that much.  Which is clear to me when I have to install the Classic Shell on all seniors machines to make it easier for them to use.

 

Pcpunk QUOTE: 

So why can't a company worth Billions of dollars produce a few different OS's to serve the public better?  And, it would be really nice seeing an OS that would work on older XP and Vista pc's so they don't need to be crushed in the name of making another Billion! for M.S. and the many OEM's?  Many people only need to email and share with their family on facebook, Skype etc.

I think, Microsoft should produce at least one other Desktop that would be more user friendly to folks that are not all that Technically Inclined, like Seniors and lite users.  Some like tiles and some don't, so why not make one for both?

 

I'm not saying that seniors don't use Windows 10 I'm saying that Microsoft doesn't care what ANYONE'S opinion is about Windows 10.

The more Seniors buy and use iPads they'll start caring?

 

Okay, I may be getting a little off Topic here, but just wanted to voice my concern as to why M.S. would not use a little extra resources to create at least one more choice for it's users.  They also claim to be green, but how green is it to send millions of Vista computers to the Crusher, not to mention Windows 7 computers that 10 won't even run on?  For this Linux gives us choice.  Unfortunately I work for someone else, and they don't want to bother with linux, so I'm reserved to only suggest Linux on rare occasions.

 

Thanks for the feedback, pc


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#15 The-Toolman

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Posted 05 February 2017 - 02:50 PM

I believe that was Ubuntu 14.04 LTS one of my first Linux Distros and I remember a check box for that in security settings I believe.


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The world is what you make of it, if it doesn't fit, you make alterations.

 

Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.  (Mark Twain)





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