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Any Advantage to hardware test from HD partition vs CD disc


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#1 MaryBet82

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Posted 09 January 2017 - 04:34 PM

Macbook pro 10.6.8

 

I'm preparing to attempt to update my macbook, which I should have done a couple years ago. Thank goodness macs just tend to work. So I ran applejack and the hardware test before starting to update and both came out OK. I ran the hardware test by booting while holding down D. It didn't list specifically what it checked. Does it put a report somewhere? Is there a difference between the hardware check from the HD partition and the check from the installation CD?

 

Any suggestions of what I should do to further prepare? I backed up my personal files and my Firefox profile. I should probably backup my Word for Mac profile. Anything else?


mac 10.6 on macbook pro
WinXP sp2 on Dell 380 w/ 512 MB RAM- currently dead in the water
WinXP tab ed sp 3 on Thinkpad X41 w/ 1.5 GB RAM - lemony flavored
Win2K Sp4 on Sony VAIO GXR600 w/ 512 MB RAM - currently blue screening

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#2 Buddyme2

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Posted 10 January 2017 - 03:03 AM

Macbook pro 10.6.8

 

I'm preparing to attempt to update my macbook, which I should have done a couple years ago. Thank goodness macs just tend to work. So I ran applejack and the hardware test before starting to update and both came out OK. I ran the hardware test by booting while holding down D. It didn't list specifically what it checked. Does it put a report somewhere? Is there a difference between the hardware check from the HD partition and the check from the installation CD?

 

Any suggestions of what I should do to further prepare? I backed up my personal files and my Firefox profile. I should probably backup my Word for Mac profile. Anything else?

 

The test results will appear in the window in the bottom right of the AHT console.

I usually just verify disk using Disk Utility and create a backup of all my files before updating to the latest OS X, that is if DU doesn't come up with any errors.

AppleJack 1.6 won't work on OS X 10.7 and later.



#3 smax013

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 01:11 AM

and create a backup of all my files before updating to the latest OS X


This is definitely the critical step in my mind. Of course, I also tend to backup my personal files on a regular basis anyway.

Personally, I tend to clone my entire boot drive to another drive before I do any updates (this includes bug patches, macOS security updates, or even just normal application updates many times), but especially before I do a major macOS upgrade. This allows me to revert to the previous state in case Apple (or some other application maker) screws up some part of the update/upgrade...something that they have done in the past on several occasions in more recent times (their quality control of both the macOS, iOS and even WatchOS is not as good as it used to be).

This can especially be true of major upgrades with new features. For example, I have read repeated reports that Apple has turned on by default (presumably by mistake/due to a bug) many of the new "optimized storage" features of Sierra when updating to Sierra and even when applying updates to Sierra. I don't want any of those functions turned on as 1) I don't want to pay Apple for more iCloud storage and 2) it can potentially mess up my system. As a result, I have not upgraded to Sierra yet, and when I do, I will definitely update my clone before I do.

As to using Disk Utility, it certainly does not hurt to do it, but I believe the macOS upgrade process does that as part of the process of upgrading to a new macOS version, but I could be wrong. Never had any issues myself. And, of course, I always update my clone anyway.   :bounce:


Edited by smax013, 11 January 2017 - 01:12 AM.


#4 MaryBet82

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 09:10 AM

Thanks Buddyme2

I'll have to run AHT again - I didn't see any list of what hardware it checked. It mentioned that the test would take longer depending on how much memory I had so I figured it checked memory and the HDs and I think I read somewhere it checks the power supply. I checked for the complete scan but as far as I could tell I just got an OK message - not details.

I thought it was better to check things without booting into the OS - maybe that's just software. I'll check out disk utility and see what it does. I've used it before but just to check permissions or something. It used to be one of my regular upkeep things to do. Being a former Windows victim I felt very insecure if I didn't do upkeep things.

 

Thanks smax013

I read about cloning a long time ago but I never trusted it enough to try it - that was back when I was a Windows victim. I'm pretty sure that I set up my ext HD to be bootable and to run the OS from there, but at this point I can't even remember the name of the backup program I use. Is Silverkeeper a backup program? This time I just copied over my personal files to a new folder.

 

I backed up to CDs/DVDs for awhile because all my updated personal files were in my Legal folder. [I am under attack by some evil bankers and have been for a long time, my health is bad and my computer health habits have suffered. We are getting close to court now and I'm trying to get my computer ready.]

 

I just ran software update and the only update listed was a printer driver that I don't want to install. That's the only update that has been listed for months. I checked my software update preferences and I have it set to check once a week and to download automatically. The last update installed was Jan 2016 for the apple store.

 

I've been getting messages at different sites that my Safari is outdated [ver5.1.10] but you have to update Safari thru the Mac OS. When I went to update Firefox it said my OS was too old.

 

I went to the Apple store, but I didn't see any links to updates. Can my software updater be broken? Why doesn't it update me to 10.7?


mac 10.6 on macbook pro
WinXP sp2 on Dell 380 w/ 512 MB RAM- currently dead in the water
WinXP tab ed sp 3 on Thinkpad X41 w/ 1.5 GB RAM - lemony flavored
Win2K Sp4 on Sony VAIO GXR600 w/ 512 MB RAM - currently blue screening

#5 smax013

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 10:07 AM

Thanks smax013
I read about cloning a long time ago but I never trusted it enough to try it - that was back when I was a Windows victim. I'm pretty sure that I set up my ext HD to be bootable and to run the OS from there, but at this point I can't even remember the name of the backup program I use. Is Silverkeeper a backup program? This time I just copied over my personal files to a new folder.

Yes, SilverKeeper is a backup program that was made by LaCie that they shipped with their external hard drives, optical drives, and other removable media devices. I don't recall if it made bootable backups as it has been a LONG time since I used it (I stopped buying LaCie drives quite a while ago...kind of a long story that is off topic).

A clone is basically an exact duplicate of your drive. If you clone your boot drive, then it will typically be bootable as well (a little more complicated on older Windows machines) since it will have the macOS on it. It is a form of backing up, but cloning can also be used if you want to install a larger drive in your computer and don't want to re-install the OS and applications all from scratch. I like it because I can then plug in clone drive if something happens to my boot drive and boot from the clone drive and be backup and running in the time it takes to shutdown the computer, connect the clone drive, and then boot from the clone drive. And in the case we are talking about (i.e. updates/upgrades), if the upgrade goes bad, I can then re-clone from the clone drive to my boot drive and be back to my previous setup.
 

I backed up to CDs/DVDs for awhile because all my updated personal files were in my Legal folder. [I am under attack by some evil bankers and have been for a long time, my health is bad and my computer health habits have suffered. We are getting close to court now and I'm trying to get my computer ready.]
 
I just ran software update and the only update listed was a printer driver that I don't want to install. That's the only update that has been listed for months. I checked my software update preferences and I have it set to check once a week and to download automatically. The last update installed was Jan 2016 for the apple store.
 
I've been getting messages at different sites that my Safari is outdated [ver5.1.10] but you have to update Safari thru the Mac OS. When I went to update Firefox it said my OS was too old.
 
I went to the Apple store, but I didn't see any links to updates. Can my software updater be broken? Why doesn't it update me to 10.7?

macOS 10.7 (aka Lion) is a purchased upgrade (where you still actually paid money for it...$100 if memory serves) as was macOS 10.8 (aka Mountain Lion), although 10.8 was only about $20. Starting with macOS 10.9 (aka Mavericks), Apple made macOS upgrades free, but you still had to in effect "purchase" it (where "purchase" was really just a matter of downloading it for free).

macOS 10.7 was also the first version of the macOS upgrades to mainly be available through the Mac App Store, as you likely realize. The problem is that Apple will remove old version of the macOS from being able to be "purchased" from the Mac App Store when a new version comes out. So, with macOS 10.12 (aka Sierra) being the current version, all previous versions have been removed from the Mac App Store for "purchase" (whether an actual paid purchase for 10.7 or 10.8 or a free download "purchase" for 10.9 through 10.11). Now, if you "purchased" (whether an actual paid purchase or a free download "purchase") an older version of the macOS, then you can still download it from your "Purchased" tab (which is why I still use the term "purchase" for free downloads of 10.9 through 10.12) in the Mac App Store.

So, in your case, if you never purchased 10.7, you will not be able to find it in the Mac App Store to purchase it now and will not be able to download it from the App Store to upgrade. You might still be able to call Apple to buy Lion by telephone, as they did offer that option in the past and I believe they still do (but could be wrong). If you are able to do that, then you will then find the Mac OS Lion installer under your Purchased tab after you buy it by telephone.

#6 MaryBet82

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Posted 11 January 2017 - 12:10 PM

I called Apple support and they sent me a link to the el capitan upgrade and it's free. Yeah! It's currently downloading - estimated time 4hrs 44 min. I've got a lot of thinking and reading to do before I install it. I'm afraid I'll have to reinstall my VirtualBoxVM and reinstall my winxp and I'm not sure I'm up to all that. I put a lot of time and effort switching from Windows to Mac and configuring my Pro - read two books and lots of help articles. Much of which I've forgotten. So many of my programs - like Paperport - weren't available for Mac. VirtualBoxVM allows me access to my PaperPort files - a lot of them legal files and, of course, Freecell. MS did come up with a Word for Mac that allows the customization that I use all the time. It doesn't have the full customization of a Word on Windows - I can't customize the RClick menus. But it was enough. I tried Pages and I don't know how people use that program.

 

My ext HD is a LaCie rugged. Did a lot of review reading for that, then after I bought it I read it had a habit of overheating. So far so good on mine. The most reliable HDs I've found are Western Digital. I have An Issue w/ Maxtor.

 

On my Windows computer I found the quickest way to back up daily was to use Nero and multi-session files. I did ext HD's backup weekly. Unfortunately, Mac doesn't do multi-session DVDs. A big gripe of mine - I'll be complaining about that until they bury me. I haven't set up a cloud account yet. I started to do so with the free space offered because I bought Word but MS was too nosy about all the info they wanted from me. I'm not sure about the security for my financial spreadsheets. Altho probably foreign nations are hacking into my computer, depending on what you read.

 

I'm going to try and boot from the LaCie before installing the upgrade. I'm pretty sure that was an option and I chose it. Have to go back to the books and find the chapter with picking a boot drive. I think you press a letter when you turn the machine on. This would be a good situation in which to be able to clone the drive. I did read a lot about cloning at one point and I think I tried it once with a program I paid for with the help of a computer friend, but it was a flop. That was w/ WinXP.

 

I'm going to start googling for compatibility info w/ el capital and virtual box and word for mac 11 and such.

 

Thanks for all the help.


mac 10.6 on macbook pro
WinXP sp2 on Dell 380 w/ 512 MB RAM- currently dead in the water
WinXP tab ed sp 3 on Thinkpad X41 w/ 1.5 GB RAM - lemony flavored
Win2K Sp4 on Sony VAIO GXR600 w/ 512 MB RAM - currently blue screening

#7 smax013

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Posted 12 January 2017 - 12:17 AM

I called Apple support and they sent me a link to the el capitan upgrade and it's free.


Keep in mind that you are making a dramatic jump in macOS versions from 10.6 to 10.11. As a result, some of your existing version of macOS applications might not be compatible with 10.11. It is typically utility programs that tend have the most issues, but productivity programs (i.e. word processors, spreadsheets, photo editors, etc) might also have issue especially with such a large version jump. For example, I don't know if Silverkeeper will work with 10.11.

 

Yeah! It's currently downloading - estimated time 4hrs 44 min. I've got a lot of thinking and reading to do before I install it. I'm afraid I'll have to reinstall my VirtualBoxVM and reinstall my winxp and I'm not sure I'm up to all that.


Do you still have the WinXP VirtualBox VM file (this would be the "virtual drive" file that VirtualBox created when you installed WindowsXP. If so, then you might just need to install VirtualBox and then open the VM file and still have your full Windows XP setup.

I don't use VirtualBox, but rather Parallels for my Windows VMs on my Macs. For Parallels, there is a VM file created for each OS that is installed in a virtual machine in Parallels. I manually back though files up periodically and also before any major updates/upgrades (kind of creates the same effect of a clone). I would assume that VirtualBox does the same. If so and you have the file, then that might ease the process for you.

BTW, after the download completes and BEFORE you run the El Capitan upgrade installer, I would suggest copying the installer file to another drive. When you upgrade the macOS using an App Store upgrade installer, it will then delete that installer file after the upgrade is complete. So, if you ever need to use that installer again, you will need to download it again unless you copy it to another drive.

Also, keep in mind that this is an "upgrade installer", so it will not be bootable. There are programs that can create a bootable install USB drive from that upgrade installer if you want. OTOH, with the advent of Lion (and later), the macOS creates a recovery partition on your hard drive that will allow you to reinstall El Capitan if something happens to your installation, but DOES not kill the drive. And depending on the model of your Mac (basically if it was a Mac that shipped with 10.6 and was released more or less just before 10.7 was released), you might be able to install a firmware update that will enable Internet Recovery. If not, then you will still need your old 10.6 install disc for a clean re-install and then use the El Capitan "upgrade installer"...unless you make a bootable El Capitan installer as mentioned above.
 

I put a lot of time and effort switching from Windows to Mac and configuring my Pro - read two books and lots of help articles. Much of which I've forgotten. So many of my programs - like Paperport - weren't available for Mac. VirtualBoxVM allows me access to my PaperPort files - a lot of them legal files and, of course, Freecell. MS did come up with a Word for Mac that allows the customization that I use all the time. It doesn't have the full customization of a Word on Windows - I can't customize the RClick menus. But it was enough. I tried Pages and I don't know how people use that program.


As to Pages, it all depends on what level of a word processor one needs. In many ways, Pages is way more basic of word processor than MS Word, which can be more than enough for many people. The one area that Pages can be better than Word (in my limited experience with Pages...I personally use Word for most things) is that it behaves closer to a desktop layout program (ala good old PageMaker) than Word does. So, it is generally easier to create graphic intensive documents.
 

My ext HD is a LaCie rugged. Did a lot of review reading for that, then after I bought it I read it had a habit of overheating. So far so good on mine. The most reliable HDs I've found are Western Digital. I have An Issue w/ Maxtor.
 
On my Windows computer I found the quickest way to back up daily was to use Nero and multi-session files. I did ext HD's backup weekly. Unfortunately, Mac doesn't do multi-session DVDs. A big gripe of mine - I'll be complaining about that until they bury me. I haven't set up a cloud account yet. I started to do so with the free space offered because I bought Word but MS was too nosy about all the info they wanted from me. I'm not sure about the security for my financial spreadsheets. Altho probably foreign nations are hacking into my computer, depending on what you read.


The Mac OS has been capable of burning multisession optical discs in the past. Here is a page that outlines how to do it:

https://help.apple.com/diskutility/mac/10.7/help/index.html?lang=en#dskutl1017

I honestly don't know if that method still works with newer versions of the macOS as I have not burned an optical disc in a LONG, LONG time.

And third party burning software should support multisession discs. This thread mentions a program called Burn (and provides a link) that supposed will do multisession discs in El Capitan:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7368611?start=0&tstart=0

And I would be surprised if Roxio's Toast did not support multisession discs, but I could not easily find anything that said one way or another, so you might have to contact them to ask.

As the end of the day, a optical disc burner that you find in a Mac is typically technically no different than what you find in a Windows machine (other than Apple tended to use slot loading, "slim" drives, while many Windows computers use tray based drives). So, you just need software that will support multisession burning. And if Apple no longer supports it built into the macOS, then you likely will be able to find third party software that will.
 

I'm going to try and boot from the LaCie before installing the upgrade. I'm pretty sure that was an option and I chose it. Have to go back to the books and find the chapter with picking a boot drive. I think you press a letter when you turn the machine on. This would be a good situation in which to be able to clone the drive. I did read a lot about cloning at one point and I think I tried it once with a program I paid for with the help of a computer friend, but it was a flop. That was w/ WinXP.


You press and hold the "C" button when powering on the Mac to boot from a bootable optical disc. To boot from an external hard drive, push and hold the "Option" key when you power up the Mac...this will give you the boot option menu that will list all bootable drives and allow you to select which one you want to use.

Cloning on older Windows computers was more limited as you generally could not boot from external drives. So, for older Windows computers, it was more a matter of cloning from one internal drive to another.

As for a cloning program for the Mac, the two popular ones are SuperDuper! and Carbon Copy Cloner.  I will note that SuperDuper! can be used for free if you want to just do very basic cloning...you only pay if you want the more advanced features such as scheduling or SmartUpdate (i.e. the ability to update a clone rather than have to do the whole clone from scratch again...it is similar in nature to an incremental/differential backup).
 

I'm going to start googling for compatibility info w/ el capital and virtual box and word for mac 11 and such.
 
Thanks for all the help.


Feel free to ask other questions if you feel like asking for help.

#8 MaryBet82

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Posted 15 January 2017 - 02:25 PM

Thanks sma013 for all the detail. I am going to have to read thru your post a few times while I make my check list before upgrading.

I googled Word for Mac 2011 compatibility w/ el capitan. Most reviews said it runs fine. There was an update to make Office 2011 more compatible w/ el c., but the link on the MS page to download the update didn't work. I'll keep looking but if Word runs OK on el C I'll probably skip the upgrade. MS has a habit of removing things I like/depend on and putting in things I'm not interested in. I wish they would keep security upgrades separate from other upgrades.

 

I went to the VirtualBox forum and I am also going to have to reread the help I got there a few times. My current version is not compatible, so I will have to upgrade VB which means uninstalling and installing. The install program will also do the uninstalling. There was something about my guests not being uninstalled during this process - this seems like magic to me. I guess that's the file you are talking about. I guess because the same program uninstalls and then installs the guest is safe somewhere. I'm hoping that means my winxp w/ paperport and word and my unabridged dictionaries won't all have to be reinstalled once I upgrade the VB. Just not having to reinstall winxp would be a blessing.

 

I did find that I have a backed up VB file in my VB Backup folder named WinXP.vdi. I hope that's it. I am currently reading the manual on the new version of VB. It is slow going for me, but I hope it will go quicker once I get comfortable w/ the terminology again,

 

I'll put on my list to back up the el capitan installer. I guess the advantage of having the el capitan installer on a bootable disk is that in case you run into trouble during installation and then you can't get 10.6.8 to boot you can install from the el c. from the USB drive. I need a new USB drive so I'll put that on my list, but that means I have to read all these reviews about the best USB drive. I hate that. Or maybe I can make a bootable CD w/ the installer. I used to could do that w/ windows. Can I do that w/ disk utility?

 

I did extensive research on the mulit-session issue. Toast does not do MS like Nero on a windows machine does and I was told that macs simply don't have that capability. Before I bought my mac I specifically asked at the mac store if Mac did MS's w/ double-sided DVDs and the answer was yes. Maybe they meant using the method via your link. I'm not sure exactly how that works, but I don't think it's the same type MS I used for BU. With Nero I made an .nri file that included the folder{s} I wanted backed up. I would burn that file to CD/DVD. At the end of the day I just put into the drive the CD/DVD w/ the folders whose files I had changed - my legal or computer or finances dvd. The nri file would open, update any changed/deleted files, I would click burn and in 2 minutes or less I'd backed up the day's changes. I didn't have to go get my ext HD and connect it and run a backup program. I could safely keep my DVDs close to my computer, which I really couldn't do w/ my BU ext HD. I don't think the method described in that link would work as easily, but I'll try it out when I have time and see what it does.


mac 10.6 on macbook pro
WinXP sp2 on Dell 380 w/ 512 MB RAM- currently dead in the water
WinXP tab ed sp 3 on Thinkpad X41 w/ 1.5 GB RAM - lemony flavored
Win2K Sp4 on Sony VAIO GXR600 w/ 512 MB RAM - currently blue screening

#9 smax013

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Posted 16 January 2017 - 07:58 PM

Thanks sma013 for all the detail. I am going to have to read thru your post a few times while I make my check list before upgrading.
I googled Word for Mac 2011 compatibility w/ el capitan. Most reviews said it runs fine. There was an update to make Office 2011 more compatible w/ el c., but the link on the MS page to download the update didn't work. I'll keep looking but if Word runs OK on el C I'll probably skip the upgrade. MS has a habit of removing things I like/depend on and putting in things I'm not interested in. I wish they would keep security upgrades separate from other upgrades.


Just keep in mind that at some point MS Office 2011 for Mac likely might be broken with a new macOS version since Microsoft is no longer supporting it and thus updating it. It could be the next masOS version or it could be years from now, but it is bound to happen. It happened in the past with older version of Office for the Mac.

But, I understand where you are coming from. Both Microsoft and Apple have an annoying habit of killing things that people use and like. That used to be less of an issue, but in today's work of constant new OS versions and more and more forced "cloud" connections, it is becoming more and more problematic.
 

I went to the VirtualBox forum and I am also going to have to reread the help I got there a few times. My current version is not compatible, so I will have to upgrade VB which means uninstalling and installing. The install program will also do the uninstalling. There was something about my guests not being uninstalled during this process - this seems like magic to me. I guess that's the file you are talking about. I guess because the same program uninstalls and then installs the guest is safe somewhere. I'm hoping that means my winxp w/ paperport and word and my unabridged dictionaries won't all have to be reinstalled once I upgrade the VB. Just not having to reinstall winxp would be a blessing.


In general, you will find that upgrading to a new version of a VM program will not require you to reinstall Windows and all the Windows programs. If they did that, it would be a very bad business model. So, generally, when you install a new version of VirtualBox, the new installed version of VirtualBox will just need to "update" your VM rather than force you to reinstall Windows and all the Windows programs.

Where you might run into problems is if you go long periods without upgrading/updating VirtualBox. In that type of situation, it is possible that a dramatically newer version of VirtualBox might not be able to read a several generation old version VM file.
 

I did find that I have a backed up VB file in my VB Backup folder named WinXP.vdi. I hope that's it. I am currently reading the manual on the new version of VB. It is slow going for me, but I hope it will go quicker once I get comfortable w/ the terminology again,
 
I'll put on my list to back up the el capitan installer. I guess the advantage of having the el capitan installer on a bootable disk is that in case you run into trouble during installation and then you can't get 10.6.8 to boot you can install from the el c. from the USB drive. I need a new USB drive so I'll put that on my list, but that means I have to read all these reviews about the best USB drive. I hate that. Or maybe I can make a bootable CD w/ the installer. I used to could do that w/ windows. Can I do that w/ disk utility?


You cannot using Disk Utility to create a bootable El Capitan installer. You supposedly can do it with Terminal. Here is the Apple support page with the instructions (I have not done it myself, so I cannot verify how well it works):

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

There are also third party programs that can do it. This Macworld article gives two options:

http://www.macworld.com/article/3092900/macs/how-to-create-a-bootable-macos-sierra-installer-drive.html

As to a USB drive to use, I personally "build" my external drives these days. When I say "build", I buy an internal drive of my choice and then buy an external drive enclosure of my choice, typically from OWC (www.macsales.com), to then install the internal drive that I bought. I main do this as many current external drives don't allow you to replace either the enclosure or internal drive if either goes bad...you have the replace the whole thing. I mainly started doing this as it was a hassle to get non-USB external drives (i.e. Firewire or Thunderbolt or eSATA) for my Macs that were faster than USB 2.0 drivers. So, by "building" my external drives, I could then pick Firewire, eSATA, or Thunderbolt enclosures of my choice. And as mentioned above, it was easier to deal with troublesome drives if I "built" them myself. With the advent of USB 3.0, however, I am more receptive to "manufactured" drives. So, I do also have a couple Western Digital and Seagate external USB 3.0 drives.
 

I did extensive research on the mulit-session issue. Toast does not do MS like Nero on a windows machine does and I was told that macs simply don't have that capability. Before I bought my mac I specifically asked at the mac store if Mac did MS's w/ double-sided DVDs and the answer was yes. Maybe they meant using the method via your link. I'm not sure exactly how that works, but I don't think it's the same type MS I used for BU. With Nero I made an .nri file that included the folder{s} I wanted backed up. I would burn that file to CD/DVD. At the end of the day I just put into the drive the CD/DVD w/ the folders whose files I had changed - my legal or computer or finances dvd. The nri file would open, update any changed/deleted files, I would click burn and in 2 minutes or less I'd backed up the day's changes. I didn't have to go get my ext HD and connect it and run a backup program. I could safely keep my DVDs close to my computer, which I really couldn't do w/ my BU ext HD. I don't think the method described in that link would work as easily, but I'll try it out when I have time and see what it does.


Just to make sure we are on the same page, are you dealing with +/-R discs or +/-RW discs? In other words, are you using discs that can only be written too and never rewritten/over-written/erased (i.e. +/-R discs) or discs that can be rewritten/over-written/erased (i.e. +/-RW discs). I ask because if it is the latter, then RW discs done with actual RW type software (ask opposed to RW discs that are treated as R discs) generally have VERY poor capability with other computers that are not running that same RW software. R discs (or RW discs that are treated as R discs) will generally have much better compatibility. And an RW discs is not the same thing as multisession (RW discs if used with RW software by their very nature are in essence multisession in a sense, but not all multisession discs are RW discs...you can do multisession with R discs). You can do multi sessions to R discs...it is just that old data will remain on the disc as once you write data to an R disc, it cannot be overwritten/erased. Multisession with an R disc just means that you append more data to what you already wrote to the disc (assuming the original data did not fill up the disc).

FWIW, by +/-R discs I mean CD-R, DVD+R, or DVD-R disc and for +/-RW discs I mean CD-RW, DVD+RW, or DVD-R discs...just in case that was not clear.

#10 MaryBet82

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Posted 31 January 2017 - 02:08 PM

Thanks again for all the time and detail in your answers. I bookmarked this post since I'll have to slowly work thru it.

 

The double-sided DVD disks that I wanted to use w/ my Nero BU plan when my folders became too large for single-sided were +R. They are unused because just after I bought them my Dell WinXP desktop completely crashed when I tried to run a scan program one downloaded from MS and burned on this bootable CD. You could make bootable CDs w/ WinXP - when it was in the right mood. I never had any trouble accessing my MS R+ discs on other Windows computers or when I was forced to buy a new computer or change from Win2K to WinXP. But I did have trouble w/ a new ext HD suddenly refusing to work {Maxtor} just after I had to do a reformat reinstall of WinXP. I was saved by my DVD backups. [Security articles always said not to rely on one method of BU - esp not just an ext HD.] And Maxtor was no help. Anyway, Mac doesn't have that capability according to the people I spoke to at Toast and I don't think they'll be adding it because everyone is going to cloud or USB. And even if I went back to Windows it probably wouldn't work. Frequently when Windows did a security update it screwed up Nero and Nero would have to put out a patch. Nero then concentrated more on making video DVDs than data DVDs.

 

I may have trouble w/ my virtual machine but I put the ver number in my post and that didn't seem to be an expected problem according to the advice. At the rate I'm going it may become a problem.

 

I like the idea of making one's own ext HD. I also want to make a kind of internal HD apartment where I can put all the HD's from my old computers and then easily connect them via USB when I want to access one. And I want to set up an old computer so that I can run all the old programs I like - the old Word that used wmp images and the PaperPort that worked.  Except I'd have trouble finding old working printers and scanners.  I've already read some reviews that the new Word for Mac isn't as good as 2011. 

 

I'm trying to help my sister get her 8.1 HP lemon to work before I do the big upgrade so we have one working computer in the house. I think it has the option to install win7 instead and I think that would be the best option. But I have to read some more and that's my plan for the day.


mac 10.6 on macbook pro
WinXP sp2 on Dell 380 w/ 512 MB RAM- currently dead in the water
WinXP tab ed sp 3 on Thinkpad X41 w/ 1.5 GB RAM - lemony flavored
Win2K Sp4 on Sony VAIO GXR600 w/ 512 MB RAM - currently blue screening

#11 smax013

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Posted 01 February 2017 - 11:04 AM

Anyway, Mac doesn't have that capability according to the people I spoke to at Toast


What capability are you talking about specifically? It was not clear to me from what you wrote.
 

I may have trouble w/ my virtual machine but I put the ver number in my post and that didn't seem to be an expected problem according to the advice. At the rate I'm going it may become a problem.


Without more information on which version you are using, I definitely cannot comment. Add to that the fact that I have no direct experience with VirtualBox and I might not be much direct help. But, if you want to tell me what version you have or point me to your post on the VirtualBox forums, I still might be able to help.
 

I like the idea of making one's own ext HD.


I would definitely encourage you make a clone to an external drive before you upgrade. It is very easy to do, very reliable (assuming the drive does not die), and very easy to verify that it works (i.e. plug it in and boot from it). And it will be an EXACT copy of your current setup. So, if something does go wrong with the upgrade, you just plug in the external drive, boot from it, and then clone from the external drive back to your internal drive and your Mac is back EXACTLY to how it was when you made or last updated the clone. I do it all the time. My clone for this computer is current sitting inches from my fingers as I type this. I consider it my first line of my backup system. As you mentioned, it is best to have multiple backups. The most common recommendation is called the 3-2-1 back up rule...3 backup copies, 2 local copies on two different mediums (i.e. devices and/or types of device/media), and one remote copy (i.e. online or hard drive that is stored at a family member's house or in a bank safe deposit box, etc). Some people go beyond that. And for others, just getting them to do a SINGLE backup is like pulling teeth.

I also want to make a kind of internal HD apartment where I can put all the HD's from my old computers and then easily connect them via USB when I want to access one.


Not sure what you mean by "internal HS apartment", but there are definitely ways to hook old internal drives to a new computer. You can either get an external enclosure to mount the drive in (this is actually what I do when I want a new external drive...I buy an external enclosure of my choice and a new internal drive of my choice and then "build" an external drive); use a universal drive adapter (here is an example: https://eshop.macsales.com/item/NewerTech/U3NVSPATA/); or the last option is a drive dock, either external or internal (internal is typically only applicable for Windows tower machines). I will note that drive docks typically will only work with SATA drives, not IDE drives.

Here is an example of an external drive dock: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/external-drives/owc-drive-dock
Here is an example of an internal drive dock: https://www.amazon.com/Kingwin-Single-Mobile-2-5-3-5-KF-255-BK/dp/B00M3WNWB2/ref=pd_day0_147_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00M3WNWB2&pd_rd_r=8MVCDAA0B30B5ZRX9AK3&pd_rd_w=itSip&pd_rd_wg=B7fEO&psc=1&refRID=8MVCDAA0B30B5ZRX9AK3

Note: The examples above are just examples that I am familiar with or have bought/used myself...there are plenty of other options, including some that may cost less.


And I want to set up an old computer so that I can run all the old programs I like - the old Word that used wmp images and the PaperPort that worked.  Except I'd have trouble finding old working printers and scanners.


Makes sense. About the one recommendation I would offer is to NOT typically have it connected to the Internet. An older computer will typically not have the latest security updates (i.e. XP is no longer supported), so it will be more vulnerable to malware, etc. And because there are still lots of computers running XP, a lot of malware makers and other nefarious types still target it.

I've already read some reviews that the new Word for Mac isn't as good as 2011.


Keep in mind that is likely depends on what you need to do. I will admit that I have not moved past Office 2011 just yet as I need to upgrade to at least El Capitan (still using Yosemite, aka 10.10, at the moment, just have not gotten around to upgrading) in order to use the newest version of Office for Mac that comes with my Office 365 subscription.
 

I'm trying to help my sister get her 8.1 HP lemon to work before I do the big upgrade so we have one working computer in the house. I think it has the option to install win7 instead and I think that would be the best option. But I have to read some more and that's my plan for the day.


If you make use of the clone route, then you Mac should remain functional even if something goes wrong with the update as you can boot from the clone and use the Mac that way if needed. And as I said above, it is really easy to test if the clone was successful and working properly before you begin any updating...you just boot from it. And to be entirely honest, I really doubt you will have any significant issues with the update to a new OS version. Every time I have done it, it has gone smoothly. The biggest likely problem might be some program that breaks with the new OS, but computer itself should run. So, it really depends on what programs you REALLY need access to right after the update. I really doubt that you will have any problems with Office 2011 with El Capitan (only issue I saw with a quick search was with Outlook 2011, but no issue with Word or Excel). The only other program that you have mentioned (that I remember) is VirtualBox and without any version information on that, I cannot say if there might be issues with that. Usually the programs that have the most problems with new OS versions are "lower level" program such as disk utilities and similar type stuff.




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