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Why opinions outweigh facts on forums


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#1 GreenGiant117

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 10:18 AM

This is a rant....

 

Why is it that on many forums such as this, where questions are asked and answered that opinions are expressed that have little to no relevance to the question. I understand that people have their opinions but when someone is seeking advice on something, a lot of times technical advice that really opinion has almost nothing to do with, why do people feel the need to post theirs?

 

For example, especially on this forum, there are so many questions about which gaming laptop to purchase, and they will list a few that they are considering, and ask for some more analysis on which is the better option. The replies quickly come in yelling about the fact that “gaming laptops aren’t a thing” and that there is no point to them, and that desktops are cheaper and better for gaming. Whether or not gaming laptops are useful is not the question, which one is best for a price point was the question.

 

I have experienced this time and again, when looking for information on which headphones for a certain price were good. Eventually purchasing after extensive research and posting my results and talking about the sound quality of said headphones only to get assaulted with rhetoric about how ignorant and tone deaf I must be for liking the sound of those headphones. Again I understand that people can have their opinions but when you are vomiting them upon someone and insulting them for something that you don’t like it’s so ignorant and hard to deal with. It also deters from the community aspect of a forum, the point is through collaboration you achieve better knowledge faster than independent research.

 

Time and again the replies on forums are vicious attacks over minor grammatical errors, or something that differs from the repliers opinions.

 

Not to sound arrogant but even if I see someone ask about something that differs from my opinion I still try to help. For instance I personally don’t find my gaming experience improved that much by higher frame rates. There are so many people that demand ways to increase their frame rates from 60 to 100, or from 100 to 120, or from 120 to 200 fps, etc, I find that as long as I am at or above 30fps my gaming experience is as good as it will get. This is true with my having a 120Hz TV, a monitor with G-sync, and having played on 144Hz monitors. I still find that 30 is that magic number and I know that humans cannot see much more that 28-32 Hz refresh so why pay that much more for a few more fps? That being said I will still assist someone who complains of being plagued with being stuck at 100 fps and wanting to squeeze more out of a system. I look around for the next better video card, or slightly faster hard drive/CPU/RAM etc.

 

I understand that moderators can only do so much so fast, and I understand that there is some pleasure to be gleaned from proving someone wrong, but why is it so prevalent?

I know that nothing will come of this, but I am just so fed up with being persecuted for giving vague advice that in some people’s opinions isn’t correct. Personally I try to give a little guidance and push people in the right direction, and possibly accelerate the conversation, I don’t always have all the answers but I try to do what I can with what I do know.

 

I guess the point behind my writing this is how as a community in this forum can we self-police these sorts of things to help promote more diverse posts and not scare people away with aggression on legitimate questions?



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#2 buddy215

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 10:50 AM

Jeepers !...you make it seem like Trump is responding to your posts. :)

Seriously...give a link to a topic where a vicious attack took place.


“Every atom in your body came from a star that exploded and the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics...you are all stardust.”Lawrence M. Krauss
A 1792 U.S. penny, designed in part by Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, reads “Liberty Parent of Science & Industry.”

#3 mjd420nova

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 11:00 AM

As the internet has advanced and the availability of computers to just about anyone, you are sure to run across those who, as in real life, as unhappy people.  They will attempt to over-rule your delight in anything with horror stories and attacks upon your person.  Trolls is a term used by many.  I use the forums to help me solve the really tough issues I face and to pass on the knowledge I have attained over the decades.  Reviews have guided me to many purchases that have been superior performers.  Don't let anyone rain on your parade.



#4 shadow_647

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 11:17 AM

Seriously...give a link to a topic where a vicious attack took place.

 

Agreed link.

This place is chill in any case, your not even allowed to use adult words here.

You should see what a no rules deep web troll training forum is like if you like that kind of thing.

 

Ps: 30fps is lame, im still on CRT and theirs no way im playing unreal tournament at 30fps, stable 75 fps/hz with vsink is the way to go and most LCD screens iv seen cant even do 45 fps.

 

lol-keyboard.jpg



#5 GreenGiant117

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 11:26 AM

Jeepers !...you make it seem like Trump is responding to your posts. :)

Seriously...give a link to a topic where a vicious attack took place.

 

Admittedly there was some hyperbole in my original post, I will say for the most part that this forum is pretty lax and kind, but there are other forums that I am a part of or was a part of that were pretty mean in their responses.

 

 

As the internet has advanced and the availability of computers to just about anyone, you are sure to run across those who, as in real life, as unhappy people.  They will attempt to over-rule your delight in anything with horror stories and attacks upon your person.  Trolls is a term used by many.  I use the forums to help me solve the really tough issues I face and to pass on the knowledge I have attained over the decades.  Reviews have guided me to many purchases that have been superior performers.  Don't let anyone rain on your parade.

 

I don't even mean trolls, I mean regular people just being mean, especially my example of the gaming laptop thing, they genuinely don't like gaming laptops and just attack the posts about them, by replying over and over about how they are just stupid.

 

 

 

Seriously...give a link to a topic where a vicious attack took place.

 

Agreed link.

This place is chill in any case, your not even allowed to use adult words here.

You should see what a no rules deep web troll training forum is like if you like that kind of thing.

 

Ps: 30fps is lame, im still on CRT and theirs no way im playing unreal tournament at 30fps, stable 75 fps/hz with vsink is the way to go and most LCD screens iv seen cant even do 45 fps.

 

lol-keyboard.jpg

 

 

See above about the link. I understand the things that I am complaining about are in reality rather mild, but like I said I'm not talking about trolls, its people who are against the idea of the post, and not contributing to the progression of the facts.

 

P.S. I disagree, about the LCD comment, is it perfectly smooth? No, but to me I don't notice a huge difference on my G-sync system, there is a difference on a 144Hz monitor, but does it significantly improve the game play in my opinion? No, it just makes the times that you have frame rate drops that much more noticeable.



#6 Gorbulan

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 11:51 AM

You were in a discussion forum and asked: "What do you think of X"? and you are surprised people said "X is stupid."?

 

Of course they did, you asked their opinion. Even if you only ask about pricing they are still going to say if the product is bad in their opinion. Because they feel it is waste of money, so not worth any price. Remember that this is a Support Forum. People are supporting you by informing you of a potentially bad purchase decision.

 

If you don't want people to voice their opinion in whatever form they feel is appropriate, then don't ask an anonymous discussion forum. That's the way the Interwebs works. It may be feel bad, but it is actually a good thing.



#7 GreenGiant117

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 12:04 PM

You were in a discussion forum and asked: "What do you think of X"? and you are surprised people said "X is stupid."?

 

Of course they did, you asked their opinion. Even if you only ask about pricing they are still going to say if the product is bad in their opinion. Because they feel it is waste of money, so not worth any price. Remember that this is a Support Forum. People are supporting you by informing you of a potentially bad purchase decision.

 

If you don't want people to voice their opinion in whatever form they feel is appropriate, then don't ask an anonymous discussion forum. That's the way the Interwebs works. It may be feel bad, but it is actually a good thing.

 

While I understand that asking for opinions does open you up for negative opinions, what I am talking about is when you ask specifically about facts, for instance "Of X, Y and Z which one has the best performance?" and the response that you get is "Letters are stupid and no one should use them, numbers are way better" that is what I an frustrated with. That and the number of people who chime in stating the same thing.

 

Maybe the OP wants letters for a reason, etc.

 

It also comes down to tone, that is why when I respond I will state "While I prefer not to use letters in favor of numbers, and I would suggest 57 performance wise it is similar and a bit cheaper, but if you are staying with letters I would go with X due to these reasons." not flat out stating "letters shouldn't even exist its such a stupid idea, you should just get numbers" no substance, no resolving of the issue, just a slightly aggressive response saying the OP is just wrong.



#8 shadow_647

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 01:09 PM

 

I disagree, about the LCD comment, is it perfectly smooth? No, but to me I don't notice a huge difference on my G-sync system, there is a difference on a 144Hz monitor, but does it significantly improve the game play in my opinion? No, it just makes the times that you have frame rate drops that much more noticeable.

high quality CRT @ 85 fps + vsink is perfectly smooth, your 30 fps comment when playing a game like battlefield/doom/quake/counter strike etc or any 3D twitch shooter make no sense.

 

For me its unplayable at that speed and when panning around to see who out their at 30fps i can't see anything till i stop moving my head around as well all iv ever see on all the LCD iv ever used is FPS shutter or motion blur and low FPS caps, why im still on a 22" CRT and i use to have a 24" one, biggest one made in the world for a computer last i checked and sold for like $3000 with tax USD when new, last one made in 2004.

As well some newer games started adding in motion blur in the game code so when you move around you can't see anything and makes it so people with high quality monitors are in the same boat as people with $100 Walmart screen and or people running their games at 30fps, that gets on my nerves to no end.

 

not contributing to the progression of the facts

 

All facts, and i have yet to see a LCD that can beat a CRT in image quality, if you know of one let me know and ill but it, has to be IPS of cores and has to be able to do min 60fps.

All TN screens are trash.

 

Ps: you ever used a high quality CRT screen to game ?



#9 GreenGiant117

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 01:29 PM

high quality CRT @ 85 fps + vsink is perfectly smooth, your 30 fps comment when playing a game like battlefield/doom/quake/counter strike etc or any 3D twitch shooter make no sense.

 

For me its unplayable at that speed and when panning around to see who out their at 30fps i can't see anything till i stop moving my head around as well all iv ever see on all the LCD iv ever used is FPS shutter or motion blur and low FPS caps, why im still on a 22" CRT and i use to have a 24" one, biggest one made in the world for a computer last i checked and sold for like $3000 with tax USD when new, last one made in 2004.

As well some newer games started adding in motion blur in the game code so when you move around you can't see anything and makes it so people with high quality monitors are in the same boat as people with $100 Walmart screen and or people running their games at 30fps, that gets on my nerves to no end.

 

 

Smoothness, I do see a little difference with the higher frame rates (144Hz) but the first time that I used a G-Sync it was noticeable that it was smoother, the fact that the screen refreshes with the video card makes all the difference, but that being said, 40fps synced vs 120fps synced (or unsynched even) is not going to be a noticeable difference, people can say it is, but science says not. I guess it also comes down to the fact that I don't play many of those super fast paced games as you mention, but even when I do, I don't notice that much of a difference.

 

 

All facts, and i have yet to see a LCD that can beat a CRT in image quality, if you know of one let me know and ill but it, has to be IPS of cores and has to be able to do min 60fps.


 

All TN screens are trash.

 

Ps: you ever used a high quality CRT screen to game ?

 

 

I haven't been super impressed with the differences in TN vs IPS, and I am an amateur photographer. That being said, the new OLED screens are amazing, as well as a lot of the 4K screens are fantastic in their color reproduction, and contrast ratio. For instance the G-Sync display that I mention is actually on a laptop with 4K and the colors have me floored, as well as the clarity and refresh rate.

 

P.S. Yes, I had a 21 inch high resolution CRT (not sure brand, I think it was Viewsonic) years ago that was fantastic, but at the time that I switched to LCD I found that the colors were much more vibrant than on any CRT that I had ever seen.

 

Either way this is more a side discussion off topic of the thread.



#10 Chris Cosgrove

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 07:09 PM

 

Time and again the replies on forums are vicious attacks over minor grammatical errors, or something that differs from the repliers opinions.

 

This at least is something we try to crack down on on BC and, by and large, with fair success.

 

The staff on BC are neither concerned with nor responsible for the behaviour of posters on other forums but discussion, even vigorous discussion, is allowed on BC so long as it stays within the forum rules.

 

At the bottom of every post on BC, grayed out until you roll over it, there is a 'Report' button. If you see somethng which you feel is offensive, overly aggressive or insulting then use. Click on it and add a brief description of what you find wrong with the post. A Moderator will look at it within a fairly short time frame and deal with it.

 

Chris Cosgrove



#11 shadow_647

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 10:00 PM

In the end when it comes to OP main topic is just about how much heat you can take, my self im a machine on the topic and i don't mind it when things get a bit heated or mixed up when chatting on a forum but its not everyone that's like that.

 

Ps: yes i have high hopes for O-LED too, and yes you only need high FPS for twitch shooter games.



#12 shadow_647

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 12:29 AM

good vid kind of on topic, good watch.

DEFCON 19: The Art of Trolling

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHqGV5WjS4w



#13 GreenGiant117

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 10:24 AM

 

 

Time and again the replies on forums are vicious attacks over minor grammatical errors, or something that differs from the repliers opinions.

 

This at least is something we try to crack down on on BC and, by and large, with fair success.

 

The staff on BC are neither concerned with nor responsible for the behaviour of posters on other forums but discussion, even vigorous discussion, is allowed on BC so long as it stays within the forum rules.

 

At the bottom of every post on BC, grayed out until you roll over it, there is a 'Report' button. If you see somethng which you feel is offensive, overly aggressive or insulting then use. Click on it and add a brief description of what you find wrong with the post. A Moderator will look at it within a fairly short time frame and deal with it.

 

Chris Cosgrove

 

 

And I appreciate that, but the fact remains that when the conversation remains civil (for the most part) it can still be insulting and derogatory, as I mentioned before on the headphones forum, I posted stating that I had purchased headphones X and that I found them to be fantastic across the board, the sounds were rich and balanced, etc... and the first 3 responses were along the lines of "Wow, you think those are good headphones? You must be the most tone deaf ignorant person to exist because I wouldn't even let my 2 year old touch those. How can you be such a stupid fool to believe those could possibly be good?"

There I was trying to voice an experience with some new headphones that might help someone, and instead of the comments being "well in my experience those aren't quite as good as Y, etc" they were just assaults on my and anyone else's intelligence.

 

I know I might be acting a little over sensitive but its just so prevalent, even on subjects on which there is nothing of opinion only facts, like I commented on someones question about light in a vacuum, admittedly without much backing of the facts, but I commented and had a couple links about what would happen and the first comment was about how wrong my statements were, and comments on the grammar, and I believe the fact that my mother must have inbred.



#14 shadow_647

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 03:46 PM

Sounds like a funny forum to me,id go thier if only for the lolz.

 

Hard to get things done though in places like that or to stay on topic, things then to end up being flaim wars.



#15 Gorbulan

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 05:07 PM

OP,

 

It seems terrible to have such aggressive responses to a normal question. I completely understand. It is quite a annoying to get such unhelpful responses. That is unfortunately, the nature of the Internet. It's mostly anonymous, you can't see other people, so it is difficult to empathize with them. When people talk to each other and can see each other they can detect each other's emotions. That is why people are such butts online, they can't make an emotional connection, so those people online aren't people. Just "wrong" forum posters/gamers/etc.

 

However, there is a silver lining to such aggressiveness. Honesty.

 

In 2012 a controversial and highly anticipated game came out, Diablo 3. It was a disaster.

 

Diablo 3 customers were irate. No joke, they wished death threats on the Game Director, Jay Wilson. Why did they do this? Are they evil? Can they not empathize with their fellow human being? They can, but that's not the reason. They were so incredibly passionate towards this game, and they were expressing their severe disappointment. When the dust settled and people calmed down, they would post topics discussing what was wrong with the game. They did not hold back and as result D3 is one of the best games ever made. Due to the communities honest and sometimes brutal feedback Blizzard was able to make Diablo the game it is today, the virtual leader in Action RPGs.

 

If the community had to literally see the director, or other people who worked on the game, they would have held back their feedback, they would be more reserved. I know, because I have done playtests before. Being watched affects your feedback. Due to the nature of the Internet Blizzard had excellent and thorough feedback. People who use the Internet have this tendency towards truth, and validating information. That attitude is one of the things that makes it great.

 

Yes, people can be brutal online, rude even. But that is the nature of the beast. If you go online you must develop a thick skin. There is a difference between blunt honesty, and outright rudeness. That's why the Report Function was made. To filter the trolls and jerks from helpful people.






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