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What Would You Do?


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#1 yano

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 09:26 AM

Ok last night I was listening to Tom Erickson on 100.1 (out of Akron), I believe it is syndicated... anyways...

This following viewpoint came up.

///

If you were in your car, and approached a red light and you are in the bad part of any city. And a group of thugs (let's say 8) come up to your car and surround it and have weapons (ie: rocks, baseball bats etc..) And they were about to attack your car, and rob you (as you can clearly see).

Would you:

A.) Sit there, until the red light chaned then speed off

B.) Floor it, hitting them (possibly running them over) through the red light

C.) Any other thing you would think of

(please don't respond, by saying "first I wouldn't be in the bad part of the city..." no crap. most of us know where to avoid the bad part of any city is)

The problem with B is this happened to a woman in Texas (I believe, and this was also mentioned on the radio by Tom) and she got a ticket after running the light. Problem with A is if the light doesn't change for 5 minutes you're screwed.

Personally I would run the light and take the ticket. However, another caller said that he/she that would be in that situation shouldn't get the ticket because it was self-defense and a life threatening situation.

In addition, should you be charged if you run over any of the thugs? Or possibly kill them?

I don't think you should. If you are defending yourself it should be common sense, you defend yourself.

The one thing that shocked me was Tom was taking the side of not flooring it, and trying to work "with" the thugs. (wth?) I couldn't believe it. Personally I don'th think he would be saying all of this if he was in the situation.



//// Next scenario
If you and your spouse were sleeping in bed, and you wake up to glass breaking. You grab your concealed weapon (of which you have licensed and everything) or a baseball bat (anything as a weapon to protect you, your spouse, your family etc..) and you proceed downstairs. You see a man dressed in black, with a ski mask (or some type of mask) and he is in the process of trying to steal your poessions or was on his way up stairs and you can clearly see he has a gun (or another type of weapon, like a knife or something else) would you:

A.) Shoulud the bleep

B.) Ask him, who are you? Then proceed to talk him out of it...

C.) something else...

Personally I would take option A. I would shoot the bleep. If you can clearly see he was a dangerous weapon I would kill the poor bleep. I don't care what you say, but if you lying dead in your bed was/is part of he agenda, I perfer him dead first.

However, thanks to our court system a "robber" can sue you, or you can get charged for murder even if it is in self-defense! Which I find to be a load of bleep.

http://www.lowellsun.com/front/ci_4219228 (domestic violence; guess you're suppose to let your mom die...)

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/15329156.htm (side effect of using Self-Defense laws... :thumbsup: )

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index....xml&coll=1 (criminals are now getting self-defense laws at the price of there victims trying to self defend themselves.)

I personally think that in the previous scenarios I mentioned above, that you should try to get yourself out of harms way, any means necessary. I just want to be able to protect myself in the event of being robbed or any other life-threatening situation.

However, I should be able to protect myself without the criminals getting my self-defense rights. Just because someone invaded my property and has a gun, he by no means should have any rights regarding self-defense. A. He has already broke the law: by invading my home armed with a deadly weapon (so be it, a gun, knife etc..)

I see this issue as the classical liberal vs. conservative situation. I am more of a liberal than a conservative, however in this situation, I'd rather be alive in the end than wound up dead, raped or assulted in the end.

What do you think?

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#2 MaraM

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 12:09 PM

Anytime there is a 'real and obvious' threat to one's life, I agree that self-defense measures would be 'natural' and in turn, one shouldn't be charged or worse, sued by the bad guy's family for taking his life.

And while there are apparently cases where 'talking' with one's attackers may have worked, I have a wee theory. If someone is vile enough to be willing to commit these horrible crimes, what makes one think they are incapable of lying (i.e. 'Don't scream and I won't kill you').

Though perhaps slightly 'off topic' here, the difference between justice and law seems to be vast in our present world. And perhaps - just perhaps - that's one of the reasons children can no longer play outdoors unsupervised and crime seems to be increasing constantly. Fear of being killed while attempting to break into a home in the dark of night and rape/kill someone ... versus little danger of being harmed by victim and even if caught and charged, facing a short jail term because of parole, etc.

Back to your actual topic, Yano ... I used to carry several plain clothed detectives on my bus during each rush hour for their 1 hour trip home and one in particular was concerned about my safety when driving after dark, etc. He (and and the other Police Officers) would give me advise on how to survive, including (in most graphic detail) "popping the villian's eyes out like cherries, using one's fingernails as scoops". When I would wince and no doubt turn a wee bit green, they said always remember YOU are the victim, not the attacker. And something about most police believe 'better 6 years in jail than 6 feet under' when it comes to any jail sentence that 'justice' may condem you to later.
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#3 Heretic Monkey

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 12:54 PM

1st scenario: Floor it. I'm protecting myself. Of course i'd floor it... um.... carefully. I'd try to stay out of harm of anyone crossing at the red light. However, if a policeman pulls you over for running the red light, and he doesn't understand the situation, he's a moron.

2nd scenario: Floor the guy. If i saw someone in a black ski mask trying to steal my stuff, i'd hit/shoot first and ask questions later. If i were to say something and take away the element of surpise (from myself), he could easily draw a gun and shoot me without hesitation. So, to protect my stuff and myself, i'd at LEAST knock him unconscious or debilitate him in some way.

Self protection should be the highest priority of any species. Otherwise, the species would become extinct. This should be no different that the views of humans.

#4 Conface

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Posted 25 August 2006 - 06:52 PM

Good thread.

1) I would definately get the hell outta there, no way im sticking around to have the thugs put some nice dents into my car and or hurt/kill me and steal my stuff. If you are in a dead stop at a light and you run over one of the guys chances are you aren't gunna kill him, unless you squish his head. Although I haven't researched it or know anything about it, (more drawing on personal experience) but I think that in most cases of a car hitting a person it is more the impact of the car hitting the person and the impact of the person on the concrete after they get hit by the car that kills them; not the pedestrian getting squished by a tire.

2) If I had a gun and he had a gun I would try and shoot him in a limb or something, then give him a nice pistolwhip to the head and take his gun (although I have never shot a gun, and would probably miss). If I had a gun and he had a hand weapon (bat, knife, etc.) I would tell him to, "Get the **** outta my house or you are gunna get shot." If he came towards me I would shoot him, and if he ran away I would follow him to make sure he wasn't coming back. If he had a gun and I had a hand weapon I would probably just call the cops. If we both had a hand weapon I would call the cops, then based on his size I would attack him if he was small, or just wait for the cops if he was big.

The thing about both these circumstances that make this topic interesting is the fact that you can get into legal trouble if you take action to protect yourself and your posessions. There are so many loopholes and whatnot that greasball lawyers can use to get their client (the attacker) out of trouble and you into trouble. I really don't like the law system works in our society and how greasball lawyers with no hearts and only a lust for money will screw over good hardworking people who have done nothing wrong except for protecting themselves, their posessions and their families.

#5 Superwitch

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 02:27 PM

Dilemma 1:

I would definitely run the red light and risk a ticket. I have 2 children that rely on me and the chances are they would be in the car. I would obviously take as much care as possible. I agree that it is ridiculous to get a ticket in these circumstances however unless there are cameras/witnesses you would have no way of proving your situation.

Dilemma 2:

As I live in the UK I do not own a gun, nor do I keep anything to specifically use as a weapon. I live in a house where it is just me and 2 small children and so I am afraid that I would grab anything I could get my hands on and if I thought that either myself or my children were in danger I would do anything I thought necessary to keep us safe and then deal with the consequences later.

These 2 dilemmas remind me of a situation I was in last year when I acted in self defence and was then later questioned by the police. I wasn't charged but was not treated particularly nicely even when I explained that I had tried to call them prior to the incident but had had both my mobile and my landline taken from me to stop me calling them. Funny old world.

#6 Nat Sci

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 05:01 PM

1st scenario: Floor it. I'm protecting myself. Of course i'd floor it... um.... carefully. I'd try to stay out of harm of anyone crossing at the red light. However, if a policeman pulls you over for running the red light, and he doesn't understand the situation, he's a moron.

2nd scenario: Floor the guy. If i saw someone in a black ski mask trying to steal my stuff, i'd hit/shoot first and ask questions later. If i were to say something and take away the element of surpise (from myself), he could easily draw a gun and shoot me without hesitation. So, to protect my stuff and myself, i'd at LEAST knock him unconscious or debilitate him in some way.

Self protection should be the highest priority of any species. Otherwise, the species would become extinct. This should be no different that the views of humans.

I'd do the same thing on both scenarios. But I dont think you can "ask" questions after you floor the guy. If he didnt see me I'd most likely pistol whip him in the groin (most likely) but if he saw me I'd have to shoot.
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#7 frankie12

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Posted 29 August 2006 - 10:41 PM

1st: I would floor it

2nd: i would shoot the guy

Also my history teacher showed us that in some states it is not allowed for a robber to sue a homeowner when they broke into there house.

#8 cowsgonemadd3

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 03:25 PM

First cituation....
I would get outta their! Police wants to give me a ticket I would fight it in court and prob win...

2nd cituation...

I would hit him in the leg or something and NOT kill him unless he hit or tried to hit me FIRST. Then it would be self defense. He may be stealing your stuff but I'm not sure if they consider it self defense because they are not hurting you.

#9 Mr Smooth

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Posted 30 August 2006 - 03:51 PM

Floor it, Been in that situation twice,both in London. Its surprising how people get out of your way. Fined for running a red light i can live with. You are unlucky if they make it stick.

Been in the other situation as well, but in the UK its unlikely the 'intruder' has a gun. In that situation, worrying whether you are going to get sued is nowhere in your mind. You are either a FIGHTER or a VICTIM. Its instinctive. You'd be surprised how much damage a burglar can make flying through a window, momentum is a wonderful thing.

The best thing about being in the UK that most of the stupid burglar suing houseowner claims get thrown out. Its hard to sue if you're dead I suppose.

#10 BanditFlyer

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 01:19 PM

The problem with B is this happened to a woman in Texas (I believe, and this was also mentioned on the radio by Tom) and she got a ticket after running the light. Problem with A is if the light doesn't change for 5 minutes you're screwed.

"Hey guys, you see that cop car waiting behind the intersection? Think he'll notice if you beat the hell out of me?"

So ... did I understand this correctly?

The cop chose to give her a ticket rather than tracking down a bunch of thugs who were going to car-jack her?

Sounds like she was lying. Or the cop was sleeping on the job.

Howsabout honking your horn and flashing your brights? Attract attention. I doubt a bunch of car-jackers are looking to attract attention to themselves.

#11 BanditFlyer

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 01:28 PM

As to the second scenario, I suppose if I took as much time to think it through as I just did, I'd probably be dead by now

#12 BanditFlyer

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 01:36 PM

Floor it, Been in that situation twice,both in London. Its surprising how people get out of your way. Fined for running a red light i can live with. You are unlucky if they make it stick.

Been in the other situation as well, but in the UK its unlikely the 'intruder' has a gun. In that situation, worrying whether you are going to get sued is nowhere in your mind. You are either a FIGHTER or a VICTIM. Its instinctive. You'd be surprised how much damage a burglar can make flying through a window, momentum is a wonderful thing.

The best thing about being in the UK that most of the stupid burglar suing houseowner claims get thrown out. Its hard to sue if you're dead I suppose.

I take issue with that last part : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/717511.stm

A farmer who opened fire on two burglars who broke into his remote farmhouse has been found guilty of murder.


Seems to me the UK is worse on self-defenders than the US

#13 tg1911

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 02:44 PM

Scenario #1 - shoot them

In Louisiana, attempted carjacking (grabbing the door handle and attempting entry/breaking windows and attempting entry) is a shootable offense.
You are allowed to carry a gun in your car, without a permit.

Scenario #2 - shoot him

In Louisiana, breaking into someone's house is a shootable offense.
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#14 Mr Smooth

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 03:18 PM

The Tony Martin thing is well documented, and is the exception rather than the rule. The fact that he had an unlicenced gun, and the burglar dies didnt help him. If a burglar 'walked into' my baseball bat, or decided to 'fall' through a window it would probably hurt yes, kill him/her, no. Either way her shouldnt be there in the first place. The police carry batons, and CS (to be used in self defence only). The UK is no way as bad as the US, despite what the papers say. The difference in attitude to guns I would say is the biggest reason.

#15 yoopergirl

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Posted 31 August 2006 - 11:49 PM

Question one: Floor it!

Question two: If it's just me and my other half in our room alone with no kids anywhere in the home I'd prolly just go back to my room, hop onto my bed, call 911 and put the bedroom door in my sight until I heard an officer arrive and say "all clear".

Who cares what they may potentially take from my house, no one should be harmed over stuff.

Also, I feel sorry for whomever is robbing tg1911! lol

Edited by yoopergirl, 31 August 2006 - 11:52 PM.





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