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MS Updates, Confused!


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#1 six-h

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 01:48 PM

Thanks to help from Imacri, I have once more managed to get updates for the month.

Just checking what was installed, going down the route "Start" . Windows update", evidences just 19 items, whilst following the route Control Panel > Progs & Features > Installed updates, evidences 52 installed today!

Can someone explain the logic of this ? :crazy:



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#2 lmacri

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Posted 10 November 2016 - 02:33 PM

Just checking what was installed, going down the route "Start" . Windows update", evidences just 19 items, whilst following the route Control Panel > Progs & Features > Installed updates, evidences 52 installed today!

 

Hi six-h:

Just to clarify, when you view your installed updates at Control Panel | Programs and Features | View Installed Updates and sort by the Installed On column, do you mean that you see 52 updates that were installed by Windows Update yesterday (09-Nov-2016)?

I manually installed KB3198234 on 08-Nov-2016 and when I ran Windows Update the next day on 09-Nov-2016 the Windows Update Agent automatically installed the other two updates suggested by Dalai (KB3194371 and KB3203859) at http://wu.krelay.de/en/.  I'm sure you didn't do any harm by installing all three updates manually - early testing by Vista SP2 users showed that KB3203859 is the necessary speed up patch (KB3194371 and KB3203859 appear to be optional), so you only created a bit of extra work for yourself this month by manually installing all three of Dalai's suggested updates before running Windows Update. Here's a screenshot of my own installed updates for the November 2016 Patch Tuesday updates.

 

Attached File  Installed Updates Nov 2016 Patch Tuesday on 09 Nov 2016.png   122.06KB   1 downloads

If you are still concerned about the discrepancy in your update count between Windows Update | View Update History and Control Panel | Programs and Features | View Installed Updates for 09-Nov-2016, please download and install Piriform's free Speccy diagnostic software.  If you prefer, there is also a portable version of Speccy available <here> that you can save and unzip on a USB drive that doesn't require installation.  Then follow the instructions in the support article Publishing a Speccy Profile to the Web (File | Publish Snapshot) and copy and paste the URL of your published Speccy profile in your next reply.  That won't show me the "Installed On" dates but it will give me a better idea of the KB numbers for security updates that have recently been installed on your system.

Here's the URL for a recent Speccy profile for my own 32-bit Vista machine if you'd like to see a sample profile:  http://speccy.piriform.com/results/hwi2K5stjfxhQeaJ5mU3NtK.

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#3 six-h

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Posted 10 November 2016 - 04:03 PM

Thanks for replying Imacri, these are screenshots of my conflicting reports:

 

Start > Windows Update > View Update History :-

 

Update_History.jpg

 

 

Control Panel > Progs & Features > Installed Updates :-

 

Installed_Updates.jpg

 

No Idea why there are so many!

 

If the Speccy tool will help, I'll use it but the output will mean nothing to me and judging from the sample you linked to, it looks like a lot of work to decipher it.

Makes me feel awful. :blush:



#4 lmacri

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Posted 10 November 2016 - 06:25 PM

Hi six-h:

 

It looks like the additional updates listed in your installed updates (Control Panel | Programs and Features | View Installed Updates) were for Microsoft Office 2007.  Are you sure these updates weren't delivered via an Microsoft Office internal updater (e.g., Options | Resources | Check for Updates as shown in the support article Install Office Updates) rather than via Windows Update?

 

Your screenshot indicates that you might have an Enterprise edition of MS Office 2007, which is normally offered through a volume license for Business and Corporate environments and is not sold in retail stores or offered OEM from computer manufacturers.  I'm not familiar with the Enterprise edition of MS Office 2007 and how updates are normally delivered, but I believe that some versions of Office 2007 can be integrated with Office 365 Click-to-Run technology so that updates are downloaded automatically from the Microsoft servers and don't require Windows Update.

 

My best guess is that your "extra" MS Office 2007 updates shown at Control Panel | Programs and Features | View Installed Updates are being delivered via some mechanism other than Windows Update.

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#5 six-h

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Posted 10 November 2016 - 08:09 PM

Wow, You are absolutely right!

 

This PC was built to replace my own by the college where I was working part time because mine got damaged during the evening IT classes I taught for retired folks.

Both Vista and Office 2007 were installed under their volume licence and I was permitted to keep the OS and Office when the courses ended.

That is why the OS is in such a poor state, I have had no way to Refresh or repair the install!

It now takes fully 25 minutes from Boot to a Working desktop; an AV Scan paralyses the poor thing completely for around 90 minutes every week!

 

Why do I still use it?

Because we're both getting on a bit and I pretend that we understand each other!

...Besides, I've not yet fully taken to Win 10, despite having had my Erazer Laptop over 18 months, and  having built myself a little Win 10 Pro NUC a few months back.

I don't suppose I'll ever completely retire my Vista machine, because I occasionally need Office but can't justify the cost of installing it on my newer machines.

 

Regards Office updates, never really noticed if they are also delivered via other routes, but I have certainly always noticed them listed in my monthly updates lists, ...back when they were automatically delivered without all this pfaff!

 

So, does this mean that all is as it should be this month?

 

Does this just mean that for December, Dalai will publish the initial update that needs downloading prior to sending "wuaserv" off to find the month's list?

...or is something different afoot?

 

This "solution" is only a temporary workaround and a new Win32K.sys update(s) will be posted on Dalai's webpage on 13-Dec-2016 that will have to be pre-installed before you run Windows Update to install your December 2016 Patch Tuesday updates.

 

Thanks again for your excellent help, if only Mocrosoft were as helpful! :wink:



#6 lmacri

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Posted 11 November 2016 - 04:39 PM

Regards Office updates, never really noticed if they are also delivered via other routes, but I have certainly always noticed them listed in my monthly updates lists, ...back when they were automatically delivered without all this pfaff!

 

So, does this mean that all is as it should be this month?

 

Hi six-h:

 

I don't use Microsoft Office 2007 and I don't know how your MS Office Enterprise 2007 edition is configured to receive updates, but I searched the monthly summary for Microsoft's new Security Updates Guide (https://portal.msrc.microsoft.com/en-us/security-guidance/summary) and filtered for "2007" and it looks like you received the important security updates for MS Office 2007 Service Pack 3 that were released on 08-Nov-2016.

 

Attached File  Software Updates Guide MS Office 2007 SP3 08 Nov 2016.png   18.99KB   0 downloads

If you still have concerns about why there are so many updates for MS Office Enterprise 2007 listed in your installed updates (Control Panel | Programs and Features | View Installed Updates) then open one or two programs in the Office 2007 suite that you use on a regular basis like Word or Excel and see if you can run a manual check for updates (e.g., Options | Resources | Check for Updates as shown in the MS support article Install Office Updates) to see if you're fully patched. You can also post specific questions about MS Office in bleepingcomputer's Business Applications forum or the Microsoft Office forum in the MS Answers community.
 

Does this just mean that for December, Dalai will publish the initial update that needs downloading prior to sending "wuaserv" off to find the month's list?  ...or is something different afoot?

From Dalai's webpage http://wu.krelay.de/en/ regarding Vista SP2:

"Since there is neither a Servicing Stack Update nor a Rollup for Windows Vista, the differences between Win7 and Vista are going to increase, starting in October 2016. So I can't make any more recommendations for this OS. Nonetheless I'll list those updates for Vista that will most likely speed up the search, limited to new updates (you can find the old ones on the pages of previous months)."

 

Going forward there's nothing really new, except that Dalai has a Win 7 SP1 computer and has now installed KB3172605 i.e., the permanent fix for Win 7 SP1 described by Canadian Tech in his MS Answers forum thread Windows 7 Update solution that updates the Windows Update Agent (WUA) for Win 7 SP1 to v7.6.7601.23453 (note there is no analogous patch for Vista SP2 to update our old WUA v7.6.7600.256).  Dalai no longer has a computer that he can use to test his recommended Win32K.sys speed up patches each month, which is why he says that his list of updates for Vista SP2 should "most likely speed up the search".

So it's your choice.  You can either download and install the suggested speed up patches for Vista SP2 posted by Dalai every Patch Tuesday (the second Tuesday of the month), or wait a few days until Vista SP2 users have had a chance to post early feedback about Dalai's recommended speed up patches and I've revised my instructions on page 1 of m#l's thread Updates not working, it has been searching for updates for hours in the MS Answers forum where I post as user Great White North.

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Edited by lmacri, 11 November 2016 - 04:53 PM.


#7 cafejose

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Posted 11 November 2016 - 11:19 PM

This micro-soft site still seems to be available:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/search/downloadsdrillinresults.aspx?FORM=DLC&ftapplicableproducts=%5e%22Windows%22&sortby=-availabledate&q=&first=17

 

Again, I do not know if it can be found through a search engine.

 

Maybe better, as imacri reports to us, is the support tech center: https://portal.msrc.microsoft.com/en-us/security-guidance/summary


Edited by cafejose, 11 November 2016 - 11:25 PM.


#8 six-h

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 12:13 PM

Thanks Imacri, tried searching for Office updates via "Resources" and it refers you back to "Start > All Progs > Windows Update", so it seems it gets it's updates in the normal way.

I'm re-assured that all is well, I just have to trust the goodness of folks like yourself and Dalai who light the way for us lesser folks! :bowdown:

Thank you, ...again!


Edited by six-h, 12 November 2016 - 03:02 PM.


#9 six-h

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 03:07 PM

Thanks cafejose, the only problem I have with those two links is that I just don't understand any of the information presented!

I'm really not safe to be left alone with these technicalities! :crazy:



#10 cafejose

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 10:37 PM

Thanks cafejose, the only problem I have with those two links is that I just don't understand any of the information presented!

I'm really not safe to be left alone with these technicalities! :crazy:

I am starting to feel better about the "portal" support tech center link  that Imacri tells us, because it lists what operating systems each update item is meant.  From that, you need to read about the update to figure if you believe you need it or not.  The other link, the "drillinresults" link shows a set of pages of lists of downloadable update items.  You need to click to read each one of them that might be applied to your operating system and decide if this is a real Windows update that you should have for YOUR computer.  You have to check from page to page and for each individual date.  

 

You download each update item one at a time.  You then once all downloaded, run each update installer one at a time with restarts after each one.  This takes some time, unless your "speedup" driver works for you; in which case, you might find success using Windows Update to "Check for Updates", and maybe it will find them and you can choose to install them that way.    This time around, kb3198234 (?)  did not help me.  I installed it, and after restarting, and using Check for Updates in W.U., the check did not finish after 5 hours of Check for Updates.  



#11 lmacri

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 04:46 PM

Hi six-h:

 

It looks like the additional updates listed in your installed updates (Control Panel | Programs and Features | View Installed Updates) were for Microsoft Office 2007.  Are you sure these updates weren't delivered via an Microsoft Office internal updater (e.g., Options | Resources | Check for Updates as shown in the support article Install Office Updates) rather than via Windows Update?

 

Hi six-h:

Further to your post # 356 in KelllyB56's thread Windows Vista Update Hangs at "Checking For Updates", I just wanted to let you know that a few other MS Office users are reporting this same issue where they see a large number of updates for MS Office listed in their installed updates at  Control Panel | Programs | Programs and Features | View Installed Updates that are not listed at Windows Update | View Update History.  See Karen_Mullen's image of her March 2017 installed updates on page 44 of m#l's thread Updates not working, it has been searching for updates for hours in the MS Answers forum as well as similar feedback posted by other MS Office users following Karen's reply.

I'm beginning to wonder now if this issue could be related to a similar glitch where some Vista SP2 users are re-offered the same Malicious Software Removal Tool multiple times a month.  I replied to Karen's post <here> on page 47 of m#l's thread and mentioned this MSRT glitch, but most of my comments there are just a "best guess" .  I haven't found any definitive answer as to why so many of these older MS Office updates like KB2596871 (MS12-028: Description of the security update for 2007 Microsoft Office Suite Service Pack 2: April 10, 2012) would have an installation date of late 2016 / early 2017 in your installed updates list.

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Edited by lmacri, 20 March 2017 - 04:52 PM.


#12 six-h

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 06:40 PM

Hi Imacri, "curiouser and curiouser", to quote Alice Through The Looking Glass!

I thought I was getting a handle on this, but it seems to have fallen off!

 

My PC, the Vista Install and that of Office 2007 was the work of the IT Manager of the school where I used to teach.

The 500GB drive was partitioned as follows:-

C: Operating System.

D: "Recovery"

E: "Applications"

F: "Data"

All fairly self explanatory, ...except for "D: Recovery" which remained totally empty from installation in June of 2007, until September15th 2010 when strange folders began to appear!

UAC complained that I did not have permission to view the contents of these folders! Cheek!

As you can see, they appear (almost) monthly, ...strange!

...and they contain only the file MRT.exe.

Just why they commenced dumping onto my "Recovery Partition" I have no idea, but since my Data partition was filling up, I decided that I too would take advantage of the space available for my Audacity projects! 

 

I'm just wondering if perhaps this strange behavior is connected to the spurious Office updates which seem to appear as if by magic.

...also it would be nice to find out from you clever folks just why MRT.exe feels it is necessary to burden me with these folders,

...or perish the thought, mayhap I could delete them! :lmao:

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#13 lmacri

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Posted 21 March 2017 - 08:52 AM

All fairly self explanatory, ...except for "D: Recovery" which remained totally empty from installation in June of 2007, until September15th 2010 when strange folders began to appear!  UAC complained that I did not have permission to view the contents of these folders! Cheek!

As you can see, they appear (almost) monthly, ...strange!...and they contain only the file MRT.exe.

Just why they commenced dumping onto my "Recovery Partition" I have no idea, but since my Data partition was filling up, I decided that I too would take advantage of the space available for my Audacity projects!

 

Hi six-h:

I don't think this has anything to do with your Windows Update / MS Office update problems. The mrt.exe file on my 32-bit Vista SP2 computer has only reached about 130 MB (a fresh installer for this tool with the latest v5.46 virus definitions <here> is only 50 MB) and ~ 60 copies shouldn't occupy almost 100 GB of your 117 GB D:\ drive. I've heard of manual MSRT scans leaving behind temporary files if the scan is aborted or fails and doesn't run through it's final cleanup routine but I'd be surprised if that could add up to 100 GB.

I don't see any folders in your D:\ drive created after December 2015 except for your Audactiy folder, so whatever was creating them looks like it has stopped.  Given that the name of your D:\ parition is RECOVERY, are you sure that this isn't an emergency recovery partition where backup and recovery software was creating monthly file backups or system restore points/shadow copies that are hidden and/or protected with read-only permissions to prevent accidental deletion?  Recovery software could have dropped a copy of the latest MRT.exe in each folder in case your bootable C:\ drive was ever corrupted and you needed to run an emergency virus scan from another drive.  If these folders actually contain old backups or restore points then the software might also have automatically purged older folders (i.e., those created prior to Sept 2010) or has failed to create new ones since 2015 because your D:\ drive is almost full.

Don't forget that this computer was intended for use in a corporate environment, and your F:\Data drive for local data storage is likely smaller because employees would typically be required to save their work files to a network drive (i.e., rather than the local F: drive) where files could be backed up nightly.  I would do a thorough cleanup of your hard drive and move any older media files to an external hard drive to free up some space on your F:\ drive but I wouldn't recommend you use D:\ drive for saving your Audacity files until you know what this drive is used for.  Before you start deleting older folders on D:\ drive I'd start a new topic in the forum and get some expert advise to make sure it's safe to do so.  If you're going to continue using this computer after extended supported for Vista SP2 ends on 11-Apr-2017 then someone might be able to help you reallocate some of your unused disk space to increase the size of your F:\ drive.

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Edited by lmacri, 21 March 2017 - 08:58 AM.





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